Corona and Fall Sports

[Guest]

If you are believing the data that has been PROVEN to be way off the mark, repeatedly, I do not know what to tell.

 

[Staxawax]

The quickest way to beating this is to TEST EVERYONE. Develop a quick at-home test (like a pregnancy test) and require everyone to take the test.  Have them at any event of any size gathering, pass it and you get in.  That way the few that test positive are quarantined, the vast majority that don't have it can freely go about their lives.  This can happen by having the government invest whatever billions it takes to have a company or companies get this to market.  Better billions spent to get this country back on it's feet in just a few weeks than spending another trillion (or 2 or 5) on bailouts and just continuing to test those with symptoms and closing down our access to freedom.

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

18 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

The quickest way to beating this is to TEST EVERYONE. Develop a quick at-home test (like a pregnancy test) and require everyone to take the test.  Have them at any event of any size gathering, pass it and you get in.  That way the few that test positive are quarantined, the vast majority that don't have it can freely go about their lives.  This can happen by having the government invest whatever billions it takes to have a company or companies get this to market.  Better billions spent to get this country back on it's feet in just a few weeks than spending another trillion (or 2 or 5) on bailouts and just continuing to test those with symptoms and closing down our access to freedom.

So we test all the participants needed for the game.  When is this done...Friday Morning?  Then you will have to test for all the other games in the same manner.  Then you have to test fans for admittance.  Who will administer the test?  Can't test if it isn't 100% reliable.

Too many if's in that senario

[Staxawax]

2 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

So we test all the participants needed for the game.  When is this done...Friday Morning?  Then you will have to test for all the other games in the same manner.  Then you have to test fans for admittance.  Who will administer the test?  Can't test if it isn't 100% reliable.

Too many if's in that senario

There are no ifs when the test is required for every person. If they refuse or test positive and don’t self isolate there are fines and jail time. A test with a 5 minute result isn’t much more inconvenient than the wanding that many HS are doing now. 
It just makes no sense to keep testing just those with symptoms, test everyone and do it ASAP.

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

14 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

There are no ifs when the test is required for every person. If they refuse or test positive and don’t self isolate there are fines and jail time. A test with a 5 minute result isn’t much more inconvenient than the wanding that many HS are doing now. 
It just makes no sense to keep testing just those with symptoms, test everyone and do it ASAP.

So we test everyone every time when they enter a new environment.  Example:  I get a test before I enter the school building.  After school I need to get gas (test), go to the grocery story (test), and get something for the family to eat (test).  That's 4 tests.  Who is going to pay the people doing the testing and how much training is needed.  

This isn't as cut and dry as it seems.   What if I test negative at school and positive at the grocery store.

[Staxawax]

The price of freedom sometimes takes a little inconvenience. You’re sensationalizing a little. You’re not going to need a test to get gas. If you think logically mass testing for maybe 6 weeks would totally wipe this out.

This story from March better explains what I’m trying to say:

https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/06/epstein-its-time-for-some-clear-thinking-about-the-virus/

Do you want to continue to be forced to stay in your home and only leave it with mask and gloves for an undetermined amount of time or choose this path?

[psaboy]

2 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

So we test all the participants needed for the game.  When is this done...Friday Morning?  Then you will have to test for all the other games in the same manner.  Then you have to test fans for admittance.  Who will administer the test?  Can't test if it isn't 100% reliable.

Too many if's in that senario

There is too may "ifs" every time you wake up in the morning, go for a drive, go to store, etc. Need to adept the best we can and move forward. Can't live your life in a case of "what if's". 

[JustRules]

Stax...the issue with the Abbott 5-minute test (https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom/product-and-innovation/detect-covid-19-in-as-little-as-5-minutes.html) is you can only do one at a time. And it involves a blood draw. Even if you could somehow get a result in 5 minutes you need to account for a couple minutes to prep the person, draw the blood, and analyze the rules. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say 5 minutes for each one. If you have 1000 people at an event, it would take 5000 minutes to test everyone. That's 83 hours. For a Friday night game you are starting Tuesday afternoon and the first person you tested has to stay there until the game to prevent from contracting it in the interim. The diagnostic equipment is expensive, but if you wanted to buy 4 of them instead of 1 you could at least cut down the time to 20 hours. With 160 football games on a Friday night you would only need 640 in the state. The Roche machine and test kits that were the first approved test available to be run in under a day takes longer for each test, but they can process more at a time. Based on information I found online (https://diagnostics.roche.com/us/en/products/params/cobas-sars-cov-2-test.html) you can do 1056 tests in 8 hours which overall would be quicker to test the same number of people. Would you have all those people come to the same place at the same time? What if one is positive and potentially infected others there while waiting for the test?

I want football back just as much as anyone and I'm very hopeful it will be back. It won't happen with testing everyone as they enter the stadium. Mass anti-body screening will be much more effective if they can confirm (likely) someone who has been infected is now immune. If we find out 50% of the people are immune, that greatly reduces but far from eliminates the risk.

[Staxawax]

We are totally consumed with “what if’s” now. I want to eliminate those. And it’s not even about HS football. It’s about getting back to normal. Too many lives are going to be lost if we continue to test those symptomatic only. 
The tests JustRules refer are not even the ones that would be used. These tests would be a quick nasal dip and then in 5 minutes or less you know the answer. “Those don’t exist” you say, well not yet they don’t. But give researchers enough incentive ($$$$) and it will come to market. I’m done here, but look for Pelosi and her gang to demand this and in this case I agree with her. Just don’t forget where you heard it first!

[MR]

I definitely watched one of the Doctors on FOX News get the Abbott test live on the air, last night....and it was NOT a blood draw.  Nasal swab.  

[wabashalwaysfights]

No way that everyone gets tested for this thing.  Look, there are always going to be people that a)think that this virus is absolutely not any worse than the seasonal flu, b) think that this virus is on the level of Polio, or c) think that this virus was concerning, but not near to the level to warrant the reaction we've seen.  Count me in category c, but honestly, it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks, what matters is what the powers that be think.  If how the spring sport season went down, I think our best bet is to watch how the NFL and the NCAA handles their upcoming seasons, the IHSAA will likely follow suit as they did followed the NBA, MLB, and NCAA this spring.

[Titan32]

Thankfully the President basically has zero say the matter of when we go back to normalcy.  Each state will decide that.  And the only way to make that decision is with data.   Data is king and none of what we have is accurate.  With data we can start to get back to work without a vaccine....without data we are screwed.  Having a fast and easy test available for every single american is the only way to obtain the data we need to make informed decisions.....without it we are guessing.

[psaboy]

12 hours ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

No way that everyone gets tested for this thing.  Look, there are always going to be people that a)think that this virus is absolutely not any worse than the seasonal flu, b) think that this virus is on the level of Polio, or c) think that this virus was concerning, but not near to the level to warrant the reaction we've seen.  Count me in category c, but honestly, it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks, what matters is what the powers that be think.  If how the spring sport season went down, I think our best bet is to watch how the NFL and the NCAA handles their upcoming seasons, the IHSAA will likely follow suit as they did followed the NBA, MLB, and NCAA this spring.

I've heard talk that the college football season could be canceled or pushed back to start in February. If either of those happen, I would assume the high school football season will be cancelled. Hope that is not the case, though I think this thing is getting overblown, the season may be in jeopardy. I'm also hearing talk that new school year my start at home.

[Titan32]

1 minute ago, TrojanDad said:

So you think all 50 governors use data to come up with the same rationale for decision making?  My guess is that we will see significant variation across the country with return, and it won't be simply data that leads to decisions.  Even when data is used, there is different opionons (as we see on this thread) as to what constitutes acceptable risk.  When is safe, safe enough?

No country has yet implemented a test for every single citizen.  I don't disagree with the use of data.  But data is intepreted differently....and data used may not be limited to just be health monitoring data.

No I don't think all 50 governors use data....but they should.  It's significantly more reliable than intuition.  No country has implemented a test for every citizen only because it hasn't been possible....but it will be possible eventually and probably before a vaccine.    I believe you are at least implicitly referring to economic data in your last sentence, maybe not, but if you are I agree.  All data points should be used in every states decision making process and of course each state could interpret the same data differently.   

All that said, I believe we can be back in school in August and that HS football games can be played.  I do think crowd sizes will be limited or eliminated.

[Gipper]

Anthony Faucci is now suggesting sports should be played without fans.  Good in theory, but the players are just as susceptible to the disease as they players are...

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Thankfully the President basically has zero say the matter of when we go back to normalcy.  Each state will decide that.  And the only way to make that decision is with data.   Data is king and none of what we have is accurate.  With data we can start to get back to work without a vaccine....without data we are screwed.  Having a fast and easy test available for every single american is the only way to obtain the data we need to make informed decisions.....without it we are guessing.

Thank God that President Trump is the Commander in Chief!

[Titan32]

19 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Anthony Faucci is now suggesting sports should be played without fans.  Good in theory, but the players are just as susceptible to the disease as they players are...

True...but mitigating risk is what it is all about.  200 players and coaches at a HS football game is easier to swallow than 3,000 folks.  I would support whatever it takes to get the games played. 

[HereComesTheBoom]

23 hours ago, Titan32 said:

I can see a scenerio where only parents/gardians etc. are allowed to attend football games.

I am not sure how they would be able to allow kids to block, tackle, dog pile, etc... but be worried about fans sitting beside one another?  Unfortunately, I'm thinking all or nothing given all of the contact on the field. Hope I'm wrong.

[Titan32]

6 minutes ago, HereComesTheBoom said:

I am not sure how they would be able to allow kids to block, tackle, dog pile, etc... but be worried about fans sitting beside one another?  Unfortunately, I'm thinking all or nothing given all of the contact on the field. Hope I'm wrong.

Just my opinion and you know what that is worth...but in a slow rolled return to normalcy...I believe we will see sports at all levels with zero or limited fans.  Just like there could be a return to school but still maintaining social distance in other venues (particularly entertainment).  

[Gipper]

I wasn't trying to bring everybody down, but just reporting what I heard.  I'm not a fan of it either, but his word isn't law (that would go to Nancy Pelosi).  Snowing here, so I can't even get on the course!!!

[Guest]

All 50 states are under national emergency, @Gipper

[Guest]

4 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

So you think all 50 governors use data to come up with the same rationale for decision making?  My guess is that we will see significant variation across the country with return, and it won't be simply data that leads to decisions.  Even when data is used, there is different opionons (as we see on this thread) as to what constitutes acceptable risk.  When is safe, safe enough?

No country has yet implemented a test for every single citizen.  I don't disagree with the use of data.  But data is intepreted differently....and data used may not be limited to just be health monitoring data.

You and I are on the same team.  And the data/models continue/s to be wrong.

I have said it since day 1, way more to this than a virus.

You do not shut the world down b/c of a virus.

We are at war with the hidden enemy.  President Trump is 100% correct.  The unmasking has been going on for years now.  People need to wake up.

[Raven67]

We have made so many advances in treatment and testing in the last 6 weeks. Football is 14 weeks out until August. Due to China withholding information, this virus has only been worked on by some of the best medical minds in the world for 6 weeks. Let that set in. In another 6 weeks, if we make the strides we keep making, we will be WAY better off let alone 14 weeks. 3 weeks ago we were being told up to 240,000 deaths, that is down to now under 60,000. That is even with New York padding there stats. Hospitals are not even close to capacity of ICU beds. There are empty hospitals that were supposed to be full. They set up a couple thousand field hospital in Washington state, never used. New York NEVER used the Navy's hospital ship. Do not get drowned by watching the media. Is this bad... .YES. It is just not all doom and gloom, we are doing good. Keep up the work and we may see football come August or September. My bet is that we have a treatment by then. A vaccine will not cut this out, it will continue to mutate. We just need a treatment that keeps people out of the hospital and ICU..  

[wabashalwaysfights]

Ravens, you seemed to be much more doom and gloom a week ago, what happned?

For the "they may move the college football season back to next spring" crowd: I've said it before and I'll say it again, the NCAA pushing college football back to the spring is unviable for a number of reasons;

1) financial suicide for most athletic departments

2) would mess too much with off season recovery schedules for returning student athletes

3) NFL would NEVER be on board. You have GMs complaining about having a draft now because they can't do their normal testing/measurables, how do you think they would react if college ball is still being playing in April or May?

4) While the CFP is the NCAA's biggest cash cow, moving the season to the Spring kills their second biggest cash cow, the men's basketball tournament.

They can talk about it all they want, but if they do it they cripple college sports on the whole for decades to come...

[Raven67]

24 minutes ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

Ravens, you seemed to be much more doom and gloom a week ago, what happned?

For the "they may move the college football season back to next spring" crowd: I've said it before and I'll say it again, the NCAA pushing college football back to the spring is unviable for a number of reasons;

1) financial suicide for most athletic departments

2) would mess too much with off season recovery schedules for returning student athletes

3) NFL would NEVER be on board. You have GMs complaining about having a draft now because they can't do their normal testing/measurables, how do you think they would react if college ball is still being playing in April or May?

4) While the CFP is the NCAA's biggest cash cow, moving the season to the Spring kills their second biggest cash cow, the men's basketball tournament.

They can talk about it all they want, but if they do it they cripple college sports on the whole for decades to come...

Couple things on that... First, I was all doom and gloom and still have some of that in me. I am on the front lines of this. I was in a house yesterday where the whole family was positive and they had to call 911 for gma that had to get taken in. My wife is also in the medical field and is an ICU nurse. So to say that I am uninformed is not true. I just know that the protocol changes daily for both of us. SO SO much has changed in 3 weeks. I just feel better about it.