Post Season Conference Analysis - Trending Up /Trending Down

[Justasportsfan]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

DT will tell you that conference realignment is just a matter of time.

He is right in that the profile of Carmel and CG fits in the HCC much more so than the MIC and Covid has only widened the gap.  That is yet another reason why BD's upset of Carmel was such a surprise to me (kudos to the posters on here who called it back in August).

I know folks get sick and tired of me going back to the same thing, but Carmel (10 percent) and (CG 21 percent) have little in common with the remaining MIC schools other than enrollment.  As a matter of fact, if you average the free/reduced numbers of the remaining 5 townships that make up the conference, you get an average of 66 percent.

People say it doesn't matter but there is more to life than football.  Carmel is bored and will eventually run out of room and start using conference championship trophies as door stops to their classrooms.  They are cleaning house in the non-revenue sports and have won the "All-MIC" award every year of its existence.

Take the free/reduced numbers of the HCC schools:

Zionsville - 5 percent

HSE/Fishers - 15 percent

Westfield - 17 percent

Noblesville - 23 percent

Brownsburg - 25 percent

Avon - 33 percent

Franklin Township - 40 percent

FC is in no man's land in the HCC and will never compete in more than 2-3 sports.  They are growing, but not as fast as Westfield.  Maybe an FC/Avon swap for Carmel/CG is in the future?

So zionsville is the one to watch for about 5 or 6 yrs from now..the run they're having this year could pay dividends on their feeder programs as well

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

So zionsville is the one to watch for about 5 or 6 yrs from now..the run they're having this year could pay dividends on their feeder programs as well

True but I wonder how much of an immeasurable role that “grit” plays.  Maybe in my search for why the HCC hasn’t gotten over the hump it is the lack of toughness that the MIC schools possess.  
 

Gave more thought to my FC to the MIC idea.  They’d be last in either conference but at least compete better in the non-revenues and have a shorter drive home...

Win/win.

[DanteEstonia]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

I know folks get sick and tired of me going back to the same thing, but Carmel (10 percent) and (CG 21 percent) have little in common with the remaining MIC schools other than enrollment. 

What is it like teaching at a school that has such a low % of FRL kids?

[Yuccaguy]

NOT to belabor the Dwenger/Zionsville game again....BUT?

Wasn't there a "numbering exception" violation on the 3rd down FG that won the game that no one seems to have brought up?  

Clearly #90 is lined up as a guard on the FG try....obviously not a # between 50-79....  And that is far beyond the judgement call on the DPI a few moments earlier...

[temptation]

6 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

What is it like teaching at a school that has such a low % of FRL kids?

Couldn’t tell ya.

[psaboy]

1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

NOT to belabor the Dwenger/Zionsville game again....BUT?

Wasn't there a "numbering exception" violation on the 3rd down FG that won the game that no one seems to have brought up?  

Clearly #90 is lined up as a guard on the FG try....obviously not a # between 50-79....  And that is far beyond the judgement call on the DPI a few moments earlier...

If that was the case, I'm surprised any of the astute Saints' posters' have yet to bring up.

[Yuccaguy]

4 minutes ago, psaboy said:

If that was the case, I'm surprised any of the astute Saints' posters' have yet to bring up.

They aren't OFFICIALS who are in tuned with other aspects of things.  

Y'all say stuff like "out of the pocket" and he isn't the QB (How can that be roughing?).......  

 

7-2-5: Altered the numbering exception to: Exception 1: On first, second or third down, when a player sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation as in 2-14-2a, the snapper may be a player numbered 1 to 49 or 80 to 99. If Team A has the snapper in the game under this exception, Team A shall have at least four players wearing number 50-79 on its line of scrimmage. The snapper in the game under this exception must be between the ends and is an ineligible forward pass receiver during that down unless the pass is touched by B (7-5-6b). Exception 2: On fourth down or during a kick try, use our present rule. 

[psaboy]

9 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

They aren't OFFICIALS who are in tuned with other aspects of things.  

Y'all say stuff like "out of the pocket" and he isn't the QB (How can that be roughing?).......  

 

7-2-5: Altered the numbering exception to: Exception 1: On first, second or third down, when a player sets or shifts into a scrimmage-kick formation as in 2-14-2a, the snapper may be a player numbered 1 to 49 or 80 to 99. If Team A has the snapper in the game under this exception, Team A shall have at least four players wearing number 50-79 on its line of scrimmage. The snapper in the game under this exception must be between the ends and is an ineligible forward pass receiver during that down unless the pass is touched by B (7-5-6b). Exception 2: On fourth down or during a kick try, use our present rule. 

Dude, all I'm saying is I didn't watch the game so I can't tell you if it did or did not happen. I'm just making point that I'm surprised no Dwenger folks have mentioned if it did happen. But then again, maybe it did happen but no one knew that is a rule. I didn't. 

[Yuccaguy]

14 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Dude, all I'm saying is I didn't watch the game so I can't tell you if it did or did not happen. I'm just making point that I'm surprised no Dwenger folks have mentioned if it did happen. But then again, maybe it did happen but no one knew that is a rule. I didn't. 

I don't post things that didn't happen.  Anyway, its Semi-State, and the Eagles have a chance to represent the North at LOS.  

Not at all sure if the infraction may have altered the outcome, but it was in fact an infraction that was missed....

 

[Lysander]

On 11/18/2020 at 5:32 PM, Yuccaguy said:

I only read ONE reference to the Circle City Conference.  

There is NO WAY that you can't say that that collection of schools have far outshone some of those mentioned at the start of this thread.  

They get my vote as being on the UPSIDE! 

Although I have mentioned this before, Covenant Christian who participates in every sport except Football (along with Heritage Christian, btw), is part of the Circle City Conference in every sport excepting football.

With that, Covenant Christian (1A), Chatard (3A) and Roncalli (4A) are all playing for state berths this weekend.  Heritage Christian (2A) lost last week.

For the record, the NIC actually had 3 teams at LOS in 2011.  Penn (6A), South Bend Washington (4A) and South Bend St. Joe (3A) at LOS in 2011.  None won...but it was still quite an accomplishment.

 

 

[Yuccaguy]

1 hour ago, Lysander said:

Although I have mentioned this before, Covenant Christian who participates in every sport except Football (along with Heritage Christian, btw), is part of the Circle City Conference in every sport excepting football.

With that, Covenant Christian (1A), Chatard (3A) and Roncalli (4A) are all playing for state berths this weekend.  Heritage Christian (2A) lost last week.

For the record, the NIC actually had 3 teams at LOS in 2011.  Penn (6A), South Bend Washington (4A) and South Bend St. Joe (3A) at LOS in 2011.  None won...but it was still quite an accomplishment.

 

 

And I must apologize Lysander....   The "board" of the IHSAA made a change in the summer that extended the 'Mercy Rule' to the Semi-State that most officials did not receive an update on on until the past week....go figure!  

So this week (because of advertisers) will be the last week of the "Mercy Rule".....

[Lysander]

1 minute ago, Yuccaguy said:

And I must apologize Lysander....   The "board" of the IHSAA made a change in the summer that extended the 'Mercy Rule' to the Semi-State that most officials did not receive an update on on until the past week....go figure!  

So this week (because of advertisers) will be the last week of the "Mercy Rule".....

I’m no “rat”.  I don’t give up friends.

More seriously, best wishes!  

 

 

[Bobref]

8 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

I don't post things that didn't happen.  Anyway, its Semi-State, and the Eagles have a chance to represent the North at LOS.  

Not at all sure if the infraction may have altered the outcome, but it was in fact an infraction that was missed....

And we both know what the coach would say, had he been flagged: “We’ve been doing that for the last 12 weeks, and it’s never been called.” And he would probably be right. That’s an example of how a crew that’s not paying attention can make life miserable for the crew that comes after.

The crew should have a signal, or some other form of communication, e.g., radios, so that the Umpire can notify the rest of the crew that the numbering exception for scrimmage kick formation is in effect. This is something of an obscure rule, and it does not surprise me that the coach is unaware that the rules are different on 3rd down than they are on 4th down. But the crew should know. Especially at the Regional level.

[psaboy]

9 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

I don't post things that didn't happen.  Anyway, its Semi-State, and the Eagles have a chance to represent the North at LOS.  

Not at all sure if the infraction may have altered the outcome, but it was in fact an infraction that was missed....

 

Got ya, but the way you stated it "Wasn't there a "numbering exception" lends that as a question. Maybe next time say "there was a numbering exception" No big deal on my end, surprised Dwenger faithful haven't belabored this though.  

[Yuccaguy]

41 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Got ya, but the way you stated it "Wasn't there a "numbering exception" lends that as a question. Maybe next time say "there was a numbering exception" No big deal on my end, surprised Dwenger faithful haven't belabored this though.  

It was a question.   Not a statement.

[crimsonace1]

16 hours ago, DT said:

The Lawrence schools are more aligned geographically,  competitively, culturally and enrollment wise with The HCC.  I believe this would be a big win-win for both conferences.  

I know your history here is throwing really bad hot takes against the wall and seeing what sticks, but this isn't even close to accurate. 3/4 of the MIC is Marion County township schools, of which LN & LC are two. The HCC has one township school and is largely comprised of large, fast-growing schools in the donut counties. Culturally and competitively, LN (the defending girls basketball state champion and a perennial boys basketball powerhouse) and LC fit in much better in the MIC. Geographically, LC and LN would be close to Fishers & HSE, but the rest of the league is farther away from the Lawrence schools than every MIC school except Center Grove. LC and LN have a lot more in common with Warren Central and North Central (their direct neighbors), as well as Pike and Ben Davis, than they do with Westfield, Brownsburg and Zionsville. 

They're both good conferences. They both have a good mix of schools. They're both competitive. The MIC, right now, is a better football conference and also one of the premier basketball conferences in the state. The HCC is a very good football conference but not quite at the MIC's level ... however, it is the best baseball conference in the state (by far). One could argue it's also the top soccer conference in the state, and is one of the tops in both boys and girls basketball. 

[Guest DT]

21 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

I know your history here is throwing really bad hot takes against the wall and seeing what sticks, but this isn't even close to accurate. 3/4 of the MIC is Marion County township schools, of which LN & LC are two. The HCC has one township school and is largely comprised of large, fast-growing schools in the donut counties. Culturally and competitively, LN (the defending girls basketball state champion and a perennial boys basketball powerhouse) and LC fit in much better in the MIC. Geographically, LC and LN would be close to Fishers & HSE, but the rest of the league is farther away from the Lawrence schools than every MIC school except Center Grove. LC and LN have a lot more in common with Warren Central and North Central (their direct neighbors), as well as Pike and Ben Davis, than they do with Westfield, Brownsburg and Zionsville. 

They're both good conferences. They both have a good mix of schools. They're both competitive. The MIC, right now, is a better football conference and also one of the premier basketball conferences in the state. The HCC is a very good football conference but not quite at the MIC's level ... however, it is the best baseball conference in the state (by far). One could argue it's also the top soccer conference in the state, and is one of the tops in both boys and girls basketball. 

This situation reminds me of when The MIC asked the TH schools to leave.  Both TH schools were close to 1900-2000 enrollment, far behind the MIC Powers and with no chance of ever catching up.

That is also the case with the Larry schools.  Neither will ever be a 3000 plus enrollment powerhouse, hence the HCC might be the better long term competitive fit.  

After watching the HCC closely this past season, Im not sure it has the footbalkl chops to ever gain an equal footing with The MIC.  I think the conference took a step back this year.  Rick Wimmer was the reason Fishers became a powerhouse quickly.  he is long gone.  HSE will be fighting Fishers for talent for years, nuetralizing the strength of both programs.  Noblesville has yet to prove anything, and FC is a long shot

[temptation]

59 minutes ago, DT said:

This situation reminds me of when The MIC asked the TH schools to leave.  Both TH schools were close to 1900-2000 enrollment, far behind the MIC Powers and with no chance of ever catching up.

That is also the case with the Larry schools.  Neither will ever be a 3000 plus enrollment powerhouse, hence the HCC might be the better long term competitive fit.  

After watching the HCC closely this past season, Im not sure it has the footbalkl chops to ever gain an equal footing with The MIC.  I think the conference took a step back this year.  Rick Wimmer was the reason Fishers became a powerhouse quickly.  he is long gone.  HSE will be fighting Fishers for talent for years, nuetralizing the strength of both programs.  Noblesville has yet to prove anything, and FC is a long shot

I don't disagree with anything stated here but notice you left out Avon, Brownsburg and Westfield.

Look, I don't think anyone is asking the HCC to match the MIC's depth but the time has come for the top tier teams in the HCC to start winning the premier match ups when it counts.  There is no reason the three schools above cannot compete with anyone in the MIC...maybe not annually but SOME TIME.  Hell, Avon AND Brownsburg both clocked BD (who is playing tonight) in September.  

As I mentioned in another thread, until HCC schools win one when it counts, no one will take them seriously.  Maybe one win is all it takes and the other schools become believers.  Hell, Westfield might get a huge opportunity Thanksgiving weekend if tonight's games shake out like I believe they will.  They will be playing with house money and have nothing to lose.

[Guest DT]

11 minutes ago, temptation said:

I don't disagree with anything stated here but notice you left out Avon, Brownsburg and Westfield.

Look, I don't think anyone is asking the HCC to match the MIC's depth but the time has come for the top tier teams in the HCC to start winning the premier match ups when it counts.  There is no reason the three schools above cannot compete with anyone in the MIC...maybe not annually but SOME TIME.  Hell, Avon AND Brownsburg both clocked BD (who is playing tonight) in September.  

As I mentioned in another thread, until HCC schools win one when it counts, no one will take them seriously.  Maybe one win is all it takes and the other schools become believers.  Hell, Westfield might get a huge opportunity Thanksgiving weekend if tonight's games shake out like I believe they will.  They will be playing with house money and have nothing to lose.

BB and AV come over to The MIC to replace the Larrys.  Thats why I didnt mention them.  ZV and WF stay put.

I trust WF to win the big games more than I would trust AV and BB.  

[BDGiant93]

7 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

I know your history here is throwing really bad hot takes against the wall and seeing what sticks, but this isn't even close to accurate. 3/4 of the MIC is Marion County township schools, of which LN & LC are two. The HCC has one township school and is largely comprised of large, fast-growing schools in the donut counties. Culturally and competitively, LN (the defending girls basketball state champion and a perennial boys basketball powerhouse) and LC fit in much better in the MIC. Geographically, LC and LN would be close to Fishers & HSE, but the rest of the league is farther away from the Lawrence schools than every MIC school except Center Grove. LC and LN have a lot more in common with Warren Central and North Central (their direct neighbors), as well as Pike and Ben Davis, than they do with Westfield, Brownsburg and Zionsville. 

They're both good conferences. They both have a good mix of schools. They're both competitive. The MIC, right now, is a better football conference and also one of the premier basketball conferences in the state. The HCC is a very good football conference but not quite at the MIC's level ... however, it is the best baseball conference in the state (by far). One could argue it's also the top soccer conference in the state, and is one of the tops in both boys and girls basketball. 

This is spot on. 

6 hours ago, DT said:

BB and AV come over to The MIC to replace the Larrys.  Thats why I didnt mention them.  ZV and WF stay put.

I trust WF to win the big games more than I would trust AV and BB.  

Lawrence North and Central are not leaving the MIC.