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Sleeping Giants - Who are they and when will they break out?


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30 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Noblesville didn’t fair much better airing it out with a QB that’s currently on IU’s roster. I get what you’re saying and at times I was too disgusted to watch them last year. I’m still willing to give Sharpe time to build his program, though my opinion doesn’t really matter. And if it works, it’s really a mute point if good passing QB’s and WR’s from Noblesville will go elsewhere. Just win without them. I’ll tell you they likely won’t leave if they also play baseball as that’s the premier men’s sport in Noblesville. 
 

Who knows. Maybe he’ll adapt the offense like Moore did with Jackson if he has a QB that can throw. Maybe, because of limited practice reps, he was using live games as practice for installing his offense. Honestly, with the way our line played, a passing game would have been non existent. D-Lines would have feasted on the QB. 
 

sorry to disagree but the offensive line was good...I think you have a D1 commit?  Again, when you line up with ZERO wide receivers the defense knows what is coming....our defense stacked the box....your head coach is running a horrible system....can that change...sure it can but if I'm a Noblesville family with some scratch...Im going elsewhere...the QB passing instructors in Hamilton County also know whats up

c

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The football fans that don't understand how certain styles of play don't fit into certain scenarios/situations baffles me.   Throwing the football is one of the most difficult things in sports.  Many

I would guess BigBH stands for either blowhard or butthead.  Really, what's the difference? I have coached at both Westfield and Noblesville middle schools.  Westfield has a system in place that

Since I have kid that played against Noblesville a few months ago I am confident saying without question the worst offensive system I have seen since the 80's...not sure if the coach is as horrible as

20 minutes ago, BigBH said:

not really....other than Ft Wayne northern Indiana football is dead

Merrillville’s past two teams and Valpo’s State Runner Up team could have definitely competed in the HCC. Last year was an odd year for Valpo with the amount of practices and games they missed. I wouldn’t go as far as calling northern Indiana dead just because HCC and MIC rule the roost. 

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10 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Merrillville’s past two teams and Valpo’s State Runner Up team could have definitely competed in the HCC. Last year was an odd year for Valpo with the amount of practices and games they missed. I wouldn’t go as far as calling northern Indiana dead just because HCC and MIC rule the roost. 

I would agree on that Valpo team....they gave New Pal all they could handle....Merrillville....sure they would have beaten the dog crap out of Noblesville and probably Fishers but too soft

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14 minutes ago, BigBH said:

sorry to disagree but the offensive line was good...I think you have a D1 commit?  Again, when you line up with ZERO wide receivers the defense knows what is coming....our defense stacked the box....your head coach is running a horrible system....can that change...sure it can but if I'm a Noblesville family with some scratch...Im going elsewhere...the QB passing instructors in Hamilton County also know whats up

c

I didn’t catch every game. Those I did watch the O-Line was getting blown off the ball. I get your point and I think there’s a lot of validity to it that’s hard to argue. Just offering a contrarian viewpoint. Noblesville is still growing at a very strong pace and the decision was made a year or so ago to expand the current HS as opposed to building a 2nd HS on the west side by Westfield. They may lose some good QB’s and WR’s to pass happy offenses, but they’ll get their share of move ins as well. For instance, I know one of their top Freshman who has the size of a TE/DE played middle school ball in one of Chatard’s feeder Catholic schools. 
 

i do hope to see some sort of balance in the offense week 1 against Mt. Vernon. What you saw against your team is exactly what Mt. Vernon did. They stacked the box and terrorized Noblesville’s O-Line. Noblesville attempted 8 passes the entire game. 

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take the PAC12 and Big12 in college...they all run similar offenses....Big10 and Sec...similar offenses....the HCC conference we obviously know and have been talking about...all run a spread type offense that put up big numbers....I'm sure my guy DE is cool with the Noblesville coach coming in and running those smash traps...bam when your not looking breaks a big gainer, but it remains to be seen if it works.....honestly I felt  bad for the Noblesville kids when they were down huge and the coach basically ran out the clock early in the third quarter...go back to LaPorte my man I hear there is an opening. 

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2 hours ago, BigBH said:

not really....other than Ft Wayne northern Indiana football is dead

Its fair and reasonable for someone from your neck of the woods to make that comment, based on state tournament performance.

I think you will find that Northwest Indiana has an opportunity to reach parity with Ft Wayne, and rather quickly.  There are many more resources in NWI due to its proximity to Chicago.  Ft Wayne is seeing very little , if any growth.  City school consolidation is likely on the horizon.  

I see 5 schools that will likely dominate the 6A northern conversation over the next decade:

1. Elkhart - potential post consolidation monster loaded with great athletic talent

2. Crown Point  -   Just hired one of the states all time best to ressurect the program

3. Penn   - Penn will be there due to its resource advantage.  Wether thay can recapture past glory is questionable

4/5 - Homestead and Carroll  - room for only one of these two at the top.  

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6 hours ago, Boilernation said:

Merrillville’s past two teams and Valpo’s State Runner Up team could have definitely competed in the HCC. Last year was an odd year for Valpo with the amount of practices and games they missed. I wouldn’t go as far as calling northern Indiana dead just because HCC and MIC rule the roost. 

Define “competed in the HCC” for us all please.  Merrillville got a chance to prove its worth in the semi state and failed

Merrillville’s ceiling would have probably been 3rd in the HCC last year and I think that may be generous.

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5 hours ago, DT said:

Ft Wayne is seeing very little , if any growth.  

The Fort Wayne Metro is growing by about 2000 residents per year. Not staggering numbers, but definitely outperforming similar sized midwestern cities. 

With a ten-year job growth rate expected to exceed the national average, approximately 1 billion in downtown infrastructure over the next couple of years, and upwards to 50 million being dumped into FW's suburban schools Homestead and Carroll, the Summit City may not be as stagnant as you think. 

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6 minutes ago, BTF said:

The Fort Wayne Metro is growing by about 2000 residents per year. Not staggering numbers, but definitely outperforming similar sized midwestern cities. 

With a ten-year job growth rate expected to exceed the national average, approximately 1 billion in downtown infrastructure over the next couple of years, and upwards to 50 million being dumped into FW's suburban schools Homestead and Carroll, the Summit City may not be as stagnant as you think. 

That being said. Both Homestead and Carroll will have the facilities and resources to match any school in the state of Indiana. Now it's just up to the coaches to get them from being 3-star programs to a 5-star. I'm not here to criticize hard working coaches, but the reality is that neither program is in the upper 5% echelon...............which is where they need to be to be state contenders. 

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2 hours ago, temptation said:

Define “competed in the HCC” for us all please.  Merrillville got a chance to prove its worth in the semi state and failed

Merrillville’s ceiling would have probably been 3rd in the HCC last year and I think that may be generous.

A ceiling of 3rd or 4th is still competing in my book. 

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6 hours ago, DT said:

 

I think you will find that Northwest Indiana has an opportunity to reach parity with Ft Wayne, and rather quickly.  There are many more resources in NWI due to its proximity to Chicago.  Ft Wayne is seeing very little , if any growth.  City school consolidation is likely on the horizon.  

 

At worst, they're already at parity. Let's not forget Dwenger has had their season ended recently by two different NWI schools. NWI and Fort Wayne have a long standing Semi-State rivalry between the two of them. It's never been lopsided in FW's favor. What is lopsided in FW's favor is the amount of D1 talent they produce. Per capita (100,000), I wouldn't be surprised if they exceed Central Indiana.

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18 hours ago, DT said:

What a waste of space and money

Never a waste of money or space when a school system has a chance to better their school and athletics. A new stadium is awesome for a community. If you have the chance to get something new and big then do so.

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We are in a new era of rapidly declining live game attendance and increasing usage of live streaming.  I'm certainly all for a new football facility at NHS. 3500 capacity would be more than sufficient

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5 minutes ago, DT said:

We are in a new era of rapidly declining live game attendance and increasing usage of live streaming.  I'm certainly all for a new football facility at NHS. 3500 capacity would be more than sufficient

I agree. The current stadium holds 50% less than what they're building. Noblesville does have a good fanbase for home games and would sometimes have an overflow crowd, but theose were accomidated with endzone bleachers. A stadium holding upwards of 8-9K is going to look empty fairly often.

 

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51 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

A ceiling of 3rd or 4th is still competing in my book. 

I definitely agree but as stated, I may be giving them too much credit with that prediction.  They get 2-3 weeks off per fall in the DAC.  Not too many gimmes on the schedule in the HCC.

Westfield and Brownsburg did/would have rolled the Pirates.  Zionsville would give them a hell of a game and possibly be favored and then they'd have to not slip up against the other five schools.

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7 hours ago, DT said:

 

I think you will find that Northwest Indiana has an opportunity to reach parity with Ft Wayne, and rather quickly.  There are many more resources in NWI due to its proximity to Chicago.  Ft Wayne is seeing very little , if any growth.  City school consolidation is likely on the horizon.    

I think those of us in Central Indiana tend to forget/overlook (and the rest of the state unaware of) that the population of Hamilton County alone likely exceeds that of Fort Wayne at this point (it was within about 5,000 people 5-6 years ago).  

Growth there has been explosive for many years and does not appear to be abating.  Add that, in a relative sense, that population is on balance of a relatively high socio-economic level as compared to most any part of the state.  Their athletes do have and will continue to have superior access to resources both within and outside of the schools.

To be honest, Hamilton County (with the exception of Carmel) has largely underperformed up until recently.  But I think we can see the trajectory with Westfield and Zionsville just this last season.

With that, I think it likelier that Central Indiana (as regards 5A/6A) is going to become even more dominant with almost all of those more dominant Hamilton County schools competing in the North.

I am hopeful that the rest of the North will improve significantly because it has to in order to just maintain its current relative position.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Never a waste of money or space when a school system has a chance to better their school and athletics. A new stadium is awesome for a community. If you have the chance to get something new and big then do so.

ONLY if your taxpayers agree to it.

47 minutes ago, DT said:

We are in a new era of rapidly declining live game attendance and increasing usage of live streaming.  I'm certainly all for a new football facility at NHS. 3500 capacity would be more than sufficient

I HIGHLY doubt this attendance "decline" is anywhere near permanent.  I expect a full V recovery!

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Its ok to be different 

@BigBH do you think Coach Bart Curtis is wrong for running flexbone Triple Option at 6a Warsaw? 

7-3 8-3 and 9-3 1st 3 years there, Sectional Title and Sectiona championship game,  year 1 they lost round 1 to Penn 16-7  

 

follow Up:    What would you deem a successful year for Noblesville this year? 

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6 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Its ok to be different 

@BigBH do you think Coach Bart Curtis is wrong for running flexbone Triple Option at 6a Warsaw? 

7-3 8-3 and 9-3 1st 3 years there, Sectional Title and Sectiona championship game,  year 1 they lost round 1 to Penn 16-7  

 

follow Up:    What would you deem a successful year for Noblesville this year? 

No he's not wrong because his system had them competitive in every game it appears.  And yes different works also, but in the case of Noblesville most games they were not competitive and system did not allow them to be.  Call me crazy but when most teams are down by a large amount coming out of halftime they usually go to something different in the playbook to chip away...Not Noblesville they played rugby...ground and pound..maybe the defense relaxes and sure they put a TD on the board.............but then the clock is just rolling and the winning team subs out starters and we all go home.  Successful....the HCC will take step back so maybe they can go 4-6?  I mentioned earlier they will lose kids to transfer to other Hamilton County schools...I heard there biggest stat leader from last year has already transferred so they lose 700 rushing yards right there.  Coach needs to find and develop a QB....plenty of families paying big bucks for Johnny QB prodigy in that area

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44 minutes ago, BigBH said:

No he's not wrong because his system had them competitive in every game it appears.  And yes different works also, but in the case of Noblesville most games they were not competitive and system did not allow them to be.  Call me crazy but when most teams are down by a large amount coming out of halftime they usually go to something different in the playbook to chip away...Not Noblesville they played rugby...ground and pound..maybe the defense relaxes and sure they put a TD on the board.............but then the clock is just rolling and the winning team subs out starters and we all go home.  Successful....the HCC will take step back so maybe they can go 4-6?  I mentioned earlier they will lose kids to transfer to other Hamilton County schools...I heard there biggest stat leader from last year has already transferred so they lose 700 rushing yards right there.  Coach needs to find and develop a QB....plenty of families paying big bucks for Johnny QB prodigy in that area

This you BigBH?

The ending of the movie Twister | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

 

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49 minutes ago, BigBH said:

No he's not wrong because his system had them competitive in every game it appears.  And yes different works also, but in the case of Noblesville most games they were not competitive and system did not allow them to be.  Call me crazy but when most teams are down by a large amount coming out of halftime they usually go to something different in the playbook to chip away...Not Noblesville they played rugby...ground and pound..maybe the defense relaxes and sure they put a TD on the board.............but then the clock is just rolling and the winning team subs out starters and we all go home.  Successful....the HCC will take step back so maybe they can go 4-6?  I mentioned earlier they will lose kids to transfer to other Hamilton County schools...I heard there biggest stat leader from last year has already transferred so they lose 700 rushing yards right there.  Coach needs to find and develop a QB....plenty of families paying big bucks for Johnny QB prodigy in that area

Ever heard of a school named Zeeland West out of Michigan?? The offense can be dynamic if the kids get over themselves and buy into "team" 

 

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29 minutes ago, BigBH said:

No he's not wrong because his system had them competitive in every game it appears.  And yes different works also, but in the case of Noblesville most games they were not competitive and system did not allow them to be.  Call me crazy but when most teams are down by a large amount coming out of halftime they usually go to something different in the playbook to chip away...Not Noblesville they played rugby...ground and pound..maybe the defense relaxes and sure they put a TD on the board.............but then the clock is just rolling and the winning team subs out starters and we all go home.  Successful....the HCC will take step back so maybe they can go 4-6?  I mentioned earlier they will lose kids to transfer to other Hamilton County schools...I heard there biggest stat leader from last year has already transferred so they lose 700 rushing yards right there.  Coach needs to find and develop a QB....plenty of families paying big bucks for Johnny QB prodigy in that area

I'm not going to defend every aspect of Sharpe's power T.  There are certainly valid criticisms of the system.  However, his years at LaPorte were not "average".  They were honestly pretty damn good apart from his last year there (which was a very tough year for him and the team for a number of reasons I'm not going to belabor here).  If he called 52 passes last year that's probably double what he typically called at LaPorte, and the teams at LaPorte averaged nearly 30 points per game on offense (and there were lots of games where a pass was never attempted...).  Everyone knew what was coming and they couldn't stop it.  Run properly it is not a "grind it out offense" it can be high scoring and dynamic.  Go look at the numbers.  Those offenses at LaPorte were prolific scoring offenses.  The 2016 team was the smallest school in 6A and I truly believe that they would have had a chance to make it to LOS had they been in 5A that year.  They had good players who believed in the system and they were successful because of it.  That "rugby" offense at LaPorte was often problematic in LaPorte because it scored too fast and kept putting the defense back on the field.

It's not like Noblesville was a juggernaut when Sharpe showed up.  They averaged 15.3 ppg last year.  That was the highest ppg Noblesville has had since 2016.  What did you expect?  A messed up off season with a new coach and system would somehow take a program that has struggled offensively for the past 4 years and make them a prolific scoring machine?  Give the guy a chance.

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13 minutes ago, jets said:

Ever heard of a school named Zeeland West out of Michigan?? The offense can be dynamic if the kids get over themselves and buy into "team" 

 

What a wonderful post.  Thank you jets.

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6 minutes ago, slicer28 said:

I'm not going to defend every aspect of Sharpe's power T.  There are certainly valid criticisms of the system.  However, his years at LaPorte were not "average".  They were honestly pretty damn good apart from his last year there (which was a very tough year for him and the team for a number of reasons I'm not going to belabor here).  If he called 52 passes last year that's probably double what he typically called at LaPorte, and the teams at LaPorte averaged nearly 30 points per game on offense (and there were lots of games where a pass was never attempted...).  Everyone knew what was coming and they couldn't stop it.  Run properly it is not a "grind it out offense" it can be high scoring and dynamic.  Go look at the numbers.  Those offenses at LaPorte were prolific scoring offenses.  The 2016 team was the smallest school in 6A and I truly believe that they would have had a chance to make it to LOS had they been in 5A that year.  They had good players who believed in the system and they were successful because of it.  That "rugby" offense at LaPorte was often problematic in LaPorte because it scored too fast and kept putting the defense back on the field.

It's not like Noblesville was a juggernaut when Sharpe showed up.  They averaged 15.3 ppg last year.  That was the highest ppg Noblesville has had since 2016.  What did you expect?  A messed up off season with a new coach and system would somehow take a program that has struggled offensively for the past 4 years and make them a prolific scoring machine?  Give the guy a chance.

AMAZING post.  Speaks volumes of the AWESOME kids and people in LaPorte.  

Go Slicers!  Go Millers! and, Go Coach Sharpe!

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2 hours ago, Lysander said:

I think those of us in Central Indiana tend to forget/overlook (and the rest of the state unaware of) that the population of Hamilton County alone likely exceeds that of Fort Wayne at this point (it was within about 5,000 people 5-6 years ago).  

Growth there has been explosive for many years and does not appear to be abating.  Add that, in a relative sense, that population is on balance of a relatively high socio-economic level as compared to most any part of the state.  Their athletes do have and will continue to have superior access to resources both within and outside of the schools.

To be honest, Hamilton County (with the exception of Carmel) has largely underperformed up until recently.  But I think we can see the trajectory with Westfield and Zionsville just this last season.

With that, I think it likelier that Central Indiana (as regards 5A/6A) is going to become even more dominant with almost all of those more dominant Hamilton County schools competing in the North.

I am hopeful that the rest of the North will improve significantly because it has to in order to just maintain its current relative position.

 

 

Technically Zionsville is Boone County.

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