Proposal to Make Enrollment based Adjustments to Class 5A and 6A

[Footballking16]

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

Have I commented one way or another in this thread regarding realignment?

You are trying too hard...you and @gonzoronroommates?

Never said you commented on it. I asked you a question though as it relates to this thread. 
 

Do you think 6A needs to be realigned due to mega-enrollment schools for the betterment of a handful of programs?

Edited August 12, 2021 by Footballking16

[DE]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Have I commented one way or another in this thread regarding realignment?

You are trying too hard...you and @gonzoronroommates?

Bosom Buddies.  😂

3 hours ago, Staxawax said:

Off topic- I never played Candyland as a child (nor as an adult). 

Underrated?

Overrated?

 

Underrated

[gonzoron]

Just now, DE said:

Bosom Buddies.  😂

I can guarantee you we've never been on a boy's volleyball team. I don't think I could fit into those little shorts anyway.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Never said you commented on it. I asked you a question though as it relates to this thread. 
 

Do you think 6A needs to be realigned due to mega-enrollment schools for the betterment of a handful of programs?

I’m indifferent.  I will say that 6A is pretty damn boring and football is the ultimate numbers game.  I do like to see fresh blood.

I’m intrigued by the idea but that’s as far as I’ll go.  
 

Edited August 13, 2021 by temptation

[DE]

2 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

I can guarantee you we've never been on a boy's volleyball team. I don't think I could fit into those little shorts anyway.

That's too bad.  It's far better than rolling around on the ground, in onsies, with other guys like wrestlers.

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’m indifferent.  I will say that 6A is pretty damn boring and football is the ultimate numbers game.  I do like to see fresh blood.

I’m intrigued by the idea but that’s as far as I’ll go.  
 

Would 6A be any different if it was rescinded to 24 teams? 12? 6? Not sure it would. 

[temptation]

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Would 6A be any different if it was rescinded to 24 teams? 12? 6? Not sure it would. 

In the short term, no.  It’s gonna be the big four...but the HCC is coming...

[Grover]

7 hours ago, Bears62 said:

Anyone else find it it strange all the people against DT’s proposition are fans of schools like BD, CG, Cathedral and Carmel? These people act like schools like Chesterton and Lafayette Jeff are on the same playing field as Ben Davis. How hard headed and stubborn do you need to be to deny the huge population disadvantages these schools have? This is strictly about giving these 8 programs a more fair shot at a deep tourney run. That’s all. The IHSAA can’t stop the big 4 from putting the best teams on the field and passing the trophy back and forth, but they can at least do their best to balance it as best they see fit. The bullcrap response about participation trophies from Grover is so lame. Talk about being narrow-minded. We get it dude, CG can win it all with 2500 students. They are an outlier. Outliers exist. Do you get off by having schools that have good football programs that could compete with the best in 5a stuck at the bottom of 6a? Or do you just really like the number 32 for some reason? Really weird

Got a link to my post about participation trophies?

[Grover]

7 hours ago, Bears62 said:

Do you get off by having schools that have good football programs that could compete with the best in 5a stuck at the bottom of 6a? 

This is really dumb.

[Grover]

6 hours ago, BTF said:

I was thinking the same thing. From the outside looking in, that is the impression that is being given off. Winning the 6A title is no less of a major achievement with 16 teams than it is with 32. It's something to be proud of regardless. 

Neither of you are understanding my take then.  I think you are looking for the easy way out.  That's all.  Nothing more...nothing less.

[Bash Riprock]

5 hours ago, temptation said:

Westfield has 2400 students and a free and reduced rate well under 20 percent.

CG roughly the same amount of students and a free and reduced rate of just over 20 percent.

That's how.

 

And the bottom 8 schools in 6A?

But to be clear, I don’t find your theory absolute.  Lots of variables in the equation for success. 

[gonzoron]

1 hour ago, DE said:

It's far better than rolling around on the ground, in onsies, with other guys like wrestlers

Wrestling is the only sport I know where a guy who weighs 285 can score more points than anyone else on the team for the season. As a sophomore.

[Guest DT]

Lets put names and faces on some of these programs :

Columbus North Bulldogs

Warsaw Tigers

Merrillville Pirates

Valparaiso Vikings

Chesterton Trojans

Southport Cardinals

Jeffersonville Red Devils

Fort Wayne Snider Panthers

Lafayette Jefferson Bronchos

Are any of these schools less valuable in the eyes of the IHSAA than those in The MIC or The HCC?

Do we have a caste system in Indiana football where schools are valued by the amount of their resources?

Is a football state championship any less desirable at Jeff than it is at Carmel?

Lets treat these schools with the respect they deserve.  The IHSAA does not treat them as equals.  That needs to change.

 

 

 

[Indiana Fan]

And Cathedral would still win 5A and the “Big 4” would still win 6A. Nothing changes

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

Lets put names and faces on some of these programs :

Columbus North Bulldogs

Warsaw Tigers

Merrillville Pirates

Valparaiso Vikings

Chesterton Trojans

Southport Cardinals

Jeffersonville Red Devils

Fort Wayne Snider Panthers

Lafayette Jefferson Bronchos

Are any of these schools less valuable in the eyes of the IHSAA than those in The MIC or The HCC?

Do we have a caste system in Indiana football where schools are valued by the amount of their resources?

Is a football state championship any less desirable at Jeff than it is at Carmel?

Lets treat these schools with the respect they deserve.  The IHSAA does not treat them as equals.  That needs to change.

 

 

 

Lol what?

Name the last time a mega-enrollment school ended Columbus North’s season? 10-15 years ago? Warsaw? They need to worry about beating Homestead or Carroll first.

Valpo and Snider aren’t even in 6A.

There’s two teams that have a legitimate gripe as they play in loaded sectionals; LC and Southport. Is bumping LC and Southport to 5A to routinely play in sectionals with the Cathedral’s, Roncalli’s, and New Pal’s of 5A a seismic difference? No.

What does BD and Warren’s enrollment have anything to do with lack of postseason success for the majority of the schools you listed? Nothing.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

And the bottom 8 schools in 6A?

But to be clear, I don’t find your theory absolute.  Lots of variables in the equation for success. 

No doubt, but in education/athletics, it all starts at home.

Everyone’s finish line is obviously not the same but you also have to keep in mind that neither was their starting line.

[Guest DT]

7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Lol what?

Name the last time a mega-enrollment school ended Columbus North’s season? 10-15 years ago? Warsaw? They need to worry about beating Homestead or Carroll first.

Valpo and Snider aren’t even in 6A.

There’s two teams that have a legitimate gripe as they play in loaded sectionals; LC and Southport. Is bumping LC and Southport to 5A to routinely play in sectionals with the Cathedral’s, Roncalli’s, and New Pal’s of 5A a seismic difference? No.

What does BD and Warren’s enrollment have anything to do with lack of postseason success for the majority of the schools you listed? Nothing.

Back in the day, high school football was a local game.  neighborhood rivalries, conference championships and All Conference/All Area Honors were the goals and targets for the vast majority of student athletes.

The omni presence of media today has changed all that.  Its all about winning state championships and being All State.  Nothing else matters.  

In todays Indiana High School football world, if you remove the possibility of a stste championship, you suck the wind out of a programs sails.

Dont you think new life would be breathed into the programs at these small 6A schools if they were reassigned to 5A, with or without the presence of Cathedral?  I certainly do.  Merrillville Coach Brad Seiss basically admitted to the fact that his school is counting down the days until they are reclassed into 5A.  Read the interview.  Its pretty cut and dried.  I'm sure many others feel the same.  Tim Bless certainly agrees with the Merrillville POV.  

 

[Footballking16]

10 minutes ago, DT said:

Merrillville Coach Brad Seiss basically admitted to the fact that his school is counting down the days until they are reclassed into 5A.  Read the interview.  Its pretty cut and dried.  I'm sure many others feel the same.  Tim Bless certainly agrees with the Merrillville POV.

Embarrassing.

Merrillville and Columbus North can’t beat the like-sized public’s they go against in the 6A tournament. Blaming their lack of postseason success on enrollment disadvantage that really doesn’t affect either program shows how far away either program is from contending for a state championship regardless of what class they’re in.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Grover said:

Neither of you are understanding my take then.  I think you are looking for the easy way out.  That's all.  Nothing more...nothing less.

Not sure how "I'm" taking the easy way out. I follow a football program with an enrollment of 1800 who has a respectable record of 8-13 against mega giants Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central. I enjoy watching them play against the big boys. I'm advocating for the masses and what is right. And a school playing another that is double in enrollment isn't right. Is it possible for a small school to beat a big school if they put in the hard work? Absolutely. Is it right that they have to put in three times the work to do so because of the massive disadvantage in enrollment? I don't think so. 

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Embarrassing.

Merrillville and Columbus North can’t beat the like-sized public’s they go against in the 6A tournament. Blaming their lack of postseason success on enrollment disadvantage that really doesn’t affect either program shows how far away either program is from contending for a state championship regardless of what class they’re in.

Just to be clear. It's "embarrassing" for a coach to want to play similar sized schools? After Cathedral beats South Adams 56-14, are you going to thump your chest claiming you're the greatest? Or are you going say, "you know what, we have a major advantage over that program." Enrollments Matter

[DE]

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

Wrestling is the only sport I know where a guy who weighs 285 can score more points than anyone else on the team for the season. As a sophomore.

While rolling on the ground w other guys in spandex. 

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Just to be clear. It's "embarrassing" for a coach to want to play similar sized schools? After Cathedral beats South Adams 56-14, are you going to thump your chest claiming you're the greatest? Or are you going say, "you know what, we have a major advantage over that program." Enrollments Matter

We’ve been over this. Mark Bless has ZERO issue scheduling schools like Guerin or Gibson Southern when it’s convenient (non-elimination). Columbus North has a larger enrollment disparity over Gibson Southern than Carmel does over Columbus North. Columbus North hasn’t had their season ended by a mega-enrollment school since they lost to Warren in 2006. They can’t beat Center Grove, they can’t beat Franklin Central, hell they lost to Jeffersonville a few years back. This idea that CN is being held back because they lose year in and year out to schools twice their size is nothing short of delusion. The idea that the IHSAA needs to dummy down another class, again, for 7-8 schools, is ridiculous.

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

The idea that the IHSAA needs to dummy down another class, again, for 7-8 schools, is ridiculous.

Agree to disagree. 

[gonzoron]

12 minutes ago, DE said:

While rolling on the ground w other guys in spandex. 

Yep, not a sport for sissies in short shorts.

[Lysander]

8 hours ago, DT said:

Back in the day, high school football was a local game.  neighborhood rivalries, conference championships and All Conference/All Area Honors were the goals and targets for the vast majority of student athletes.

The omni presence of media today has changed all that.  Its all about winning state championships and being All State.  Nothing else matters.  

In todays Indiana High School football world, if you remove the possibility of a stste championship, you suck the wind out of a programs sails.

Dont you think new life would be breathed into the programs at these small 6A schools if they were reassigned to 5A, with or without the presence of Cathedral?  I certainly do.  Merrillville Coach Brad Seiss basically admitted to the fact that his school is counting down the days until they are reclassed into 5A.  Read the interview.  Its pretty cut and dried.  I'm sure many others feel the same.  Tim Bless certainly agrees with the Merrillville POV.  

 

So, when the current group of “5A” schools had their own special carve out to win a State Championship in the new 5A there was “new life” breathed into them?

The reality was that other than Snider (who had played in the original 5A Championship a couple of years prior and was already a legit power) the NEW 5A patient was DOA. 

Bumped up 4A schools who already knew how to play football have owned 5A.

Redrawing the lines doesn’t improve play.  It has to self-develop within the schools and communities.