This topic is closed to whiners and trollers...just football

[DumfriesYMCA]

6 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

 

4-3 myself, just hard to get 4 studs on that d-line. Prolly why most hs teams run the 3-4

I personally lean this way too…but if you have 4 very athletic LBs does it matter?   Is it really just more about how the 4th pass rusher does? Or if that edge rusher can make the right decisions and back off into a zone instead of pressuring when they need to? 
 

tbh if I had it my way….4-4 stack but im sure there is a reason many teams don’t run this….probably because it’s 8 in the box 

[scarab527]

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Probably a lot of them, but I would not call Center Grove a balanced offensive team. They are a run first team who can throw the ball when needed. Jackson has thrown the ball 126 times in 9 games. That isn't a lot. 

I mean passing 14 times a game when you’ve won each game by an average of 3TDs+ and are generally only playing half the game is kind of a lot for hs. But more importantly they have the ability to be balanced. That’s what I’m talking about. If their backs were ever to the wall and they needed to pass, they could count on Jackson and those receivers. And the ability to pass also let’s them take advantage of any matchups they like in the secondary. This is what I mean when I say they have balance. Those are two attributes championship teams have. They’re just so good they haven’t really needed to show those attributes much this year lol. 

[Footballking16]

20 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

I mean passing 14 times a game when you’ve won each game by an average of 3TDs+ and are generally only playing half the game is kind of a lot for hs. But more importantly they have the ability to be balanced. That’s what I’m talking about. If their backs were ever to the wall and they needed to pass, they could count on Jackson and those receivers. And the ability to pass also let’s them take advantage of any matchups they like in the secondary. This is what I mean when I say they have balance. Those are two attributes championship teams have. They’re just so good they haven’t really needed to show those attributes much this year lol. 

Sure, they have the ability to throw the ball when/if needed, but you'll never see CG come out and throw the ball 25-30 times unless it's absolutely out of necessity. That's not who they are and not how they game plan. They are a power running team who has a D1 QB capable of pushing the ball down field when necessary. When your top 3 rushers all average over 5 yards a carry, you don't need to throw the football or have a balanced offensive attack, it's why Center Grove has run the ball on more than 70% of their offensive plays this year. 

[scarab527]

5 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I personally lean this way too…but if you have 4 very athletic LBs does it matter?   Is it really just more about how the 4th pass rusher does? Or if that edge rusher can make the right decisions and back off into a zone instead of pressuring when they need to? 
 

tbh if I had it my way….4-4 stack but im sure there is a reason many teams don’t run this….probably because it’s 8 in the box 

Definitely the pass rush is the first reason I like the 4-3 a little better. The 3-4 OLB is practicing drops and offer responsibilities whereas the 4-3 DE is practicing his rush a lot more. The 3-4 definitely gives you more options with blitz combos and has the advantage of 2-gapping, slanting, etc and odd fronts generally being harder for kids to block, both mentally and physically. The 4-3 is arguably more “vanilla” but there’s lots of ways to spice it up a bit. Personally if you’ve got the horses I say 4-3 but again it comes down to personnel. If you’ve got kids who can operate in space as those 3-4 OLBs you should be using that. 

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

😂😂😂 this isn’t some moral dilemma of great importance like many political issues.
 

you just rather get your way than see your favorite team be the most efficient with their time on offense.  
 

you’re not a martyr, you’re a blockade

Ahh, min-maxing high school football, a game played by children.  Make it like a video game I guess................

[Muda69]

With all this passing going on just play a 0-4-7.  Four linebackers and seven defense backs.

 

[DumfriesYMCA]

2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Ahh, min-maxing high school football, a game played by children.  Make it like a video game I guess................

No make it like a business…minimize costs and maximize profits.
 

 

[Muda69]

1 minute ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

No make it like a business…minimize costs and maximize profits.
 

 

Hmm, I have been told on this forum multiple times that Indiana High School football isn't about the money. Now I guess it is:

 

[scarab527]

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Sure, they have the ability to throw the ball when/if needed, but you'll never see CG come out and throw the ball 25-30 times unless it's absolutely out of necessity. That's not who they are and not how they game plan. They are a power running team who has a D1 QB capable of pushing the ball down field when necessary. When your top 3 rushers all average over 5 yards a carry, you don't need to throw the football or have a balanced offensive attack, it's why Center Grove has run the ball on more than 70% of their offensive plays this year. 

CG Passing YPG: 140.1

CG Rushing YPG: 232.7

Yes, clearly run-first. But I would say that is pretty balanced, especially considering almost all of their games have been blowouts where they were certainly running the ball to kill the clock. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by scarab527

[DumfriesYMCA]

2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Hmm, I have been told on this forum multiple times that Indiana High School football isn't about the money. Now I guess it is:

 

Off topic and irrelevant.  It was more of an analogy…but you know that…I’ve been here for almost 10 years so I know your game.  

[Muda69]

1 minute ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Off topic and irrelevant.  It was more of an analogy…but you know that…I’ve been here for almost 10 years so I know your game.  

And it was a poor analogy.  Just accept it.  

 

[Bash Riprock]

15 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

CG Passing YPG: 140.1

CG Rushing YPG: 232.7

Yes, clearly run-first. But I would say that is pretty balanced, especially considering almost all of their games have been blowouts where they were certainly running the ball to kill the clock. 

The point FB16 is making and he's right (rolling my eyes saying that) is that Coach Moore's recipe is run first...he throws more with Jackson because of his talent.  But CG has had tremendous success over the years to include state titles, state runner-ups, semi-state appearances, etc. throwing far less than this year....far less.

Coach Moore is a Wing T guy and he turned CG into a power with that offense.  That is why every CG bantam team runs the offense starting in 2nd grade.  By the time they get to high school, the offense fits like a glove.

[FastpacedO]

4 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Looking at stats to reference what I’m talking about 

 

Gibson Southern has attempted 212 passes for 2724 yards…good for 12.8 yards per attempt…doesn’t even factor in DPI or Dholding or roughing the QB

 

Gibson Southern has run the ball 215 times for 1698 yards…good for 7.9 per play…..the penalties in play are pretty much horse collar or holding…but nothing different that any person with the ball.  
 

now granted GS has Brady Allen but GS has done this for 10 years and that’s because it works.  
 

the goal is to move usually about 80 yards or less and score….do you want to take 10+ plays to do it or do you want to do it in 6/7? 

I think the answer to this question depends on a few factors. First it is dependent on the team you are playing and their offensive production and/or talent of their offense. Second it depends on your own defenses production and the talent of your defense.

If your defensive talent is not comparable to the talent of the offense you are playing scoring in 10+ plays by running the football instead of passing can eat up clock and limit possessions of the other teams offense (of course you have to execute too). Limit possession and shorten the game and it can lean in your favor. 

That being said their are Wing T (or run heavy offenses) that can score quick and in big chunks. The Warren Central teams of 2002-2007 ran a form of Wing T and had the talent to score and score quickly (ask Penn 2003 and @Bobref 😆),

[DumfriesYMCA]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

And it was a poor analogy.  Just accept it.  

 

Sure.  You’re still wrong and you haven’t been able to refute anything I’ve said.  Won a battle to lose a war.

[DumfriesYMCA]

57 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I think the answer to this question depends on a few factors. First it is dependent on the team you are playing and their offensive production and/or talent of their offense. Second it depends on your own defenses production and the talent of your defense.

If your defensive talent is not comparable to the talent of the offense you are playing scoring in 10+ plays by running the football instead of passing can eat up clock and limit possessions of the other teams offense (of course you have to execute too). Limit possession and shorten the game and it can lean in your favor. 

That being said their are Wing T (or run heavy offenses) that can score quick and in big chunks. The Warren Central teams of 2002-2007 ran a form of Wing T and had the talent to score and score quickly (ask Penn 2003 and @Bobref 😆),

Run offenses that can get chunk plays certainly are an exception to this. All about yards per play 

[Muda69]

5 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Sure.  You’re still wrong and you haven’t been able to refute anything I’ve said.  Won a battle to lose a war.

Refute?  Maybe not. Have a difference of opinion from 35+ years of watching football at all levels, yes.

 

[DumfriesYMCA]

2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Refute?  Maybe not. Have a difference of opinion from 35+ years of watching football at all levels, yes.

 

That’s the problem

its not a matter of opinion lol…your opinion doesn’t matter 

 

Statistically it is without a doubt more efficient to pass the ball than to run the ball.  There is no room for your opinion 😂 gtfo already 

[Muda69]

1 minute ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

That’s the problem

its not a matter of opinion lol…your opinion doesn’t matter 

 

Statistically it is without a doubt more efficient to pass the ball than to run the ball.  There is no room for your opinion 😂 gtfo already 

Yet your opinion does matter because it is supposedly backed by "statistics".  Got it.

I disagree, not if your strategy is to dominate time of possession and reduce your opponent possessions.  Your beloved 'chunk plays' are the anathema of this. 

gtfo?  

[DumfriesYMCA]

2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yet your opinion does matter because it is supposedly backed by "statistics".  Got it.

I disagree, not if your strategy is to dominate time of possession and reduce your opponent possessions.  Your beloved 'chunk plays' are the anathema of this. 

gtfo?  

I’m not continuing with this. I’ve explained it already.  It’s proven on all other levels of football and I don’t need to repeat myself anymore 

[Muda69]

4 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I’m not continuing with this. I’ve explained it already.  It’s proven on all other levels of football and I don’t need to repeat myself anymore 

You say it is proven. Ok, then I just wonder why don't more Indiana High Schools run offensive schemes that pass on >50% of their downs?   Not every Indiana High School is Gibson Southern.

And good luck to the Titans this weekend.

 

[gonzoron]

1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

You say it is proven. Ok, then I just wonder why don't more Indiana High Schools run offensive schemes that pass on >50% of their downs?   Not every Indiana High School is Gibson Southern.

And good luck to the Titans this weekend.

 

Gibson Southern doesn't even do it. They run more than attempt to pass. Runs vs. Completions is quite a bit wider margin.

[DumfriesYMCA]

6 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

You say it is proven. Ok, then I just wonder why don't more Indiana High Schools run offensive schemes that pass on >50% of their downs?   Not every Indiana High School is Gibson Southern.

And good luck to the Titans this weekend.

 

It’s easier to teach a kid to just run as hard as they can and others to just wrestle the guys in front of them than it is to teach a QB to read defenses, a WR to run option routes, and OL to be disciplined enough to block for an RPO.  
 

more work in the beginning but once the system is in it works….I would like to note that having a dual threat QB who knows when to pull the ball and keep it for himself is maybe even better…because it’s dual threat…not just run not just pass.

 

again I would like to reiterate that this isn’t about Gibson Southern…I’m not a coach there and don’t make the calls.  I used them as an example but im speaking purely as a football fan. 

[Justasportsfan]

8 hours ago, scarab527 said:

15 years ago… and CG has a D1 QB and good receivers, their most explosive plays in the state game last year were all passes. Again, not saying you gotta pass every down… balance is key 

Wc could run that offense today with those athletes n still win 6a..having two Mr indianas in ur backfield will do that for ya though..add a 3rd in a 4yr run n you could probably do anything ya want..schemes that can take advantage of the other teams weak links usually prevail..sometimes its the linebackers..other times may be the secondary..