Doyel: The transfer portal is fair, just — and completely out of control

[Bobref]

12 hours ago, DE said:

 AND the most important is being tossed in the trash…..education. 
 

Isn’t it a bit presumptuous for you to be deciding what’s most important for someone else? Someone whose circumstances may be radically different from what you view as the norm? Somehow, I just can’t square that with the philosophy of personal liberty and individual freedom of choice you’ve espoused when pushing your right wing political agenda over on the OOB. It’s quite the paradox.

[DE]

9 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Isn’t it a bit presumptuous for you to be deciding what’s most important for someone else? Someone whose circumstances may be radically different from what you view as the norm? Somehow, I just can’t square that with the philosophy of personal liberty and individual freedom of choice you’ve espoused when pushing your right wing political agenda over on the OOB. It’s quite the paradox.

You serious Clark?

You do not think education is the most important?  😂

That's rich coming from such a smart guy who attended ND and IU.  Or should I stay in may lane again?

Facts do not see a political agenda Bob.  Get your head out of your a$$.

[Bobref]

16 minutes ago, DE said:

You serious Clark?

You do not think education is the most important?  😂

That's rich coming from such a smart guy who attended ND and IU.  Or should I stay in may lane again?

Facts do not see a political agenda Bob.  Get your head out of your a$$.

Nice. Where’s that thick skin now?
 

Education was the most important for me. But I’m not a kid from the inner city, a single parent family, who thinks he has a chance to monetize the fact that he can run a 4.3 40 and help his family, maybe tap into generational, life-changing wealth. You going to decide what’s most important for that kid?

[Bobref]

25 minutes ago, DE said:

Facts do not see a political agenda Bob.

Maybe the funniest thing I’ve read on the GID this year.

[Muda69]

55 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Isn’t it a bit presumptuous for you to be deciding what’s most important for someone else? Someone whose circumstances may be radically different from what you view as the norm? Somehow, I just can’t square that with the philosophy of personal liberty and individual freedom of choice you’ve espoused when pushing your right wing political agenda over on the OOB. It’s quite the paradox.

Which points to the entire screwed up world of "big time" college athletics.  Classically why does an individual enroll at a college or university?  To get an education. But I guess now it's clear that many enroll to just play football, basketball, etc.  with the hopes of becoming a professional at that sport one day.  And education is a secondary priority, if it's a priority at all.     

So let's just stop the charade.   Completely separate D1 college/university athletic departments, or at least the big money making sports like football and basketball,  from being under the auspices of the university president and board of trustees.   It will be become basically an "amateur" club sport organization that is allowed by the college/university to bear it's name, mascot, school colors, etc.   Members of this club sport organization don't have to enroll at the affiliated university unless they want to, or they focus 100% on their athletic endeavors. 

Let's just stop the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Muda69

[foxbat]

17 hours ago, temptation said:

Continuing, though all situations are unique, and coaches should not be exempt though they often are, this teaches our young people in the wrong lesson more often than not.

I for one cannot just simply accept the fact that this is a boulder rolling downhill and we should stay out of its way and not attempt to stop it.

 

16 hours ago, Bobref said:

If college — including athletics — is intended to prepare young people for life after college, why shouldn’t student athletes have the same mobility options as people out in the world? It’s all about self-determination. If you’re going to try and keep athletics separate from real life, well … you should change your screen name to Sisyphus. 😉

Of interest to me is that athletics is getting the spotlight here.  It is estimated that some 50-75% of college students change majors at least once in college.  The number of students who transfer institution as a whole as opposed to within is also not a small number.  As you point out @Bobref, we see this movement in real-life and, more specifically, in college environments in non-athletic aspects already.  We don't lament students transferring schools or majors when things work out ... well, maybe if you are the parent covering tuition costs and your kid keeps changing majors and turning school into a profession there may be some lamenting ... to the contrary, we often encourage them to find what works for them if the current path isn't.

[foxbat]

40 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Education was the most important for me. But I’m not a kid from the inner city, a single parent family, who thinks he has a chance to monetize the fact that he can run a 4.3 40 and help his family, maybe tap into generational, life-changing wealth. You going to decide what’s most important for that kid?

Reminds me of Alfred Doolittle's response to Colonel Pickering.

[DE]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Nice. Where’s that thick skin now?
 

Education was the most important for me. But I’m not a kid from the inner city, a single parent family, who thinks he has a chance to monetize the fact that he can run a 4.3 40 and help his family, maybe tap into generational, life-changing wealth. You going to decide what’s most important for that kid?

Don't play the victim card here.  You were the one tossing that crap at me years back and got called out when your skin was chicken thin.

52 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Which points to the entire screwed up world of "big time" college athletics.  Classically why does an individual enroll at a college or university?  To get an education. But I guess now it's clear that many enroll to just play football, basketball, etc.  with the hopes of becoming a professional at that sport one day.  And education is a secondary priority, if it's a priority at all.     

So let's just stop the charade.   Completely separate D1 college/university athletic departments, or at least the big money making sports like football and basketball,  from being under the auspices of the university president and board of trustees.   It will be become basically an "amateur" club sport organization that is allowed by the college/university to bear it's name, mascot, school colors, etc.   Members of this club sport organization don't have to enroll at the affiliated university unless they want to, or they focus 100% on their athletic endeavors. 

Let's just stop the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

THANK YOU!

[DE]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Nice. Where’s that thick skin now?
 

Education was the most important for me. But I’m not a kid from the inner city, a single parent family, who thinks he has a chance to monetize the fact that he can run a 4.3 40 and help his family, maybe tap into generational, life-changing wealth. You going to decide what’s most important for that kid?

No, but I am also not the one proclaiming that they ONLY need to use athletics to get out.  Your ism is showing right through.  That thinking is soooo 70s-80s-90s.  Not very progressive of you.  Bernie would not be proud of you now.\

Go look what is happening at West Side.  Things are going GREAT over there.  You are welcome in advance.  Think Ivy League.  But hey, facts don't matter to some.  ✌️

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, DE said:

No, but I am also not the one proclaiming that they ONLY need to use athletics to get out.  Your ism is showing right through.  That thinking is soooo 70s-80s-90s.  Not very progressive of you.  Bernie would not be proud of you now.\

Go look what is happening at West Side.  Things are going GREAT over there.  You are welcome in advance.  Think Ivy League.  But hey, facts don't matter to some.  ✌️

Bernie who?

[temptation]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

Nice. Where’s that thick skin now?
 

Education was the most important for me. But I’m not a kid from the inner city, a single parent family, who thinks he has a chance to monetize the fact that he can run a 4.3 40 and help his family, maybe tap into generational, life-changing wealth. You going to decide what’s most important for that kid?

Gimme the statistics on those that play professionally after their college days.

Sure helps to have that education in your back pocket, no?

Delusion is at an all-time high with many of today’s youth.  

[Bobref]

Just now, temptation said:

Gimme the statistics on those that play professionally after their college days.

Sure helps to have that education in your back pocket, no?

Delusion is at an all-time high with many of today’s youth.  

I happen to agree with you. I just don’t believe in imposing my beliefs on others, taking away choices they have every right to make, even if you think they’re wrong.

[temptation]

3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I happen to agree with you. I just don’t believe in imposing my beliefs on others, taking away choices they have every right to make, even if you think they’re wrong.

It has nothing to do with beliefs. The statistics don’t lie. Your chances of making a living, let alone this “life-changing money” you speak of are slim to none.

[Bobref]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

It has nothing to do with beliefs. The statistics don’t lie. Your chances of making a living, let alone this “life-changing money” you speak of are slim to none.

Again, I agree. But what you or I believe is the right choice for a kid to make is completely irrelevant.

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Again, I agree. But what you or I believe is the right choice for a kid to make is completely irrelevant.

More people need to be transparent and honest with kids.  Once again, this is not about beliefs.  Making a decent living beyond athletics should be a priority and top goal for every human being.

Make sure you are sitting down for this one @DE…I’ve even seen this process of honesty that I’m referring to given an academic moniker:  spirit murdering.

[DE]

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

More people need to be transparent and honest with kids.  Once again, this is not about beliefs.  Making a decent living beyond athletics should be a priority and top goal for every human being.

Make sure you are sitting down for this one @DE…I’ve even seen this process of honesty that I’m referring to given an academic moniker:  spirit murdering.

Bingo!

[Bobref]

I find it ironic that you guys support taking away free transferability because it allows kids to make bad choices about their future, and they need to be protected from that. “It’s for their own good.” What about the choice they made as to what scholarship to accept? Don’t they need to be protected from the consequences of a bad decision, made for the wrong reasons, there? Doesn’t transferability do that? 
 

You know there is a word for the taking away of individual decision-making by a dictatorial central authority: fascism.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Bobref

[gonzoron]

3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I find it ironic that you guys support taking away free transferability because it allows kids to make bad choices about their future, and they need to be protected from that. “It’s for their own good.” What about the choice they made as to what scholarship to accept? Don’t they need to be protected from the consequences of a bad decision, made for the wrong reasons, there? Doesn’t transferability do that? 
 

You know there is a word for the taking away of individual decision-making by a dictatorial central authority: fascism.

What has made the transferring more prevalent was the decision of the NCAA to give all athletes an extra year of eligibility. This has affected not only NCAA athletes, but also high school athletes entering college for the next 4 years at minimum. It was the biggest mistake they could have made. 

[temptation]

27 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I find it ironic that you guys support taking away free transferability because it allows kids to make bad choices about their future, and they need to be protected from that. “It’s for their own good.” What about the choice they made as to what scholarship to accept? Don’t they need to be protected from the consequences of a bad decision, made for the wrong reasons, there? Doesn’t transferability do that? 
 

You know there is a word for the taking away of individual decision-making by a dictatorial central authority: fascism.

Who said taking it away was our stance?

In fact, my favorite collegiate football head coach was the one that originally advocated for the one time transfer rule and brought it to the NCAA’s attention.

One free transfer and the ability to be a grad transfer is sufficient.  
 

The problem is the line gets blurred because the kids, reasoning for transferring is usually not what the rule was intended for.  Kids get home sick, change degree programs, etc…but now you had better build a big lead in the fourth quarter and get that back up freshman/sophomore quarterback some reps and allow him to throw the ball or else he’s gone.  

Many always think the grass is greener on the other side when in many cases it is not.  I have countless examples of athletes with whom I have worked where this is the case.

It all comes back to what I said in another thread. Commit to a school and not a coach.  Coaches have free will to come and go which also adds to this blurred line and double standard.  
 

But it is hard to have sympathy for athletes when they get stuck high and dry for not listening to this advice.

The plight of the “ poor student athlete” is sensationalized and overblown.

[Bash Riprock]

54 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I find it ironic that you guys support taking away free transferability because it allows kids to make bad choices about their future, and they need to be protected from that. “It’s for their own good.” What about the choice they made as to what scholarship to accept? Don’t they need to be protected from the consequences of a bad decision, made for the wrong reasons, there? Doesn’t transferability do that? 
 

You know there is a word for the taking away of individual decision-making by a dictatorial central authority: fascism.

ok...I hope that statement was an attempt at humor...seems a little extreme.

Wasn't long ago that a student athlete could transfer, but had to lay out a year.  But they could always transfer.  In the Big 10 conference, wasn't that long ago that a student could transfer, but lost the scholarship.  I believe Jeff George experienced this leaving Purdue for Illinois.

I don't think anyone is arguing for the abolishment of the ability to transfer.....but for perhaps some accountability for their decisions which hopefully will result in a higher degree of dedication and perseverance.  I thought the rule the old rule of laying out a year for staying at the same level of play was just fine.  

Let's be honest...athletes in many cases, don't have to meet the same academic criteria that the non-athlete needs to be admitted to an institution.  In a high % of schools, NCAA minimums won't get the average student admitted.  So there is already an admittance break that has been afforded to many athletes.  Show some level of gratitude and moxie to compete before giving up and heading to "greener pastures".

Only an opinion.....

[DE]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I find it ironic that you guys support taking away free transferability because it allows kids to make bad choices about their future, and they need to be protected from that. “It’s for their own good.” What about the choice they made as to what scholarship to accept? Don’t they need to be protected from the consequences of a bad decision, made for the wrong reasons, there? Doesn’t transferability do that? 
 

You know there is a word for the taking away of individual decision-making by a dictatorial central authority: fascism.

😂

This is rich.  

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

What has made the transferring more prevalent was the decision of the NCAA to give all athletes an extra year of eligibility. This has affected not only NCAA athletes, but also high school athletes entering college for the next 4 years at minimum. It was the biggest mistake they could have made. 

+1 again.  Hell still hasn't frozen over.

44 minutes ago, temptation said:

Who said taking it away was our stance?

In fact, my favorite collegiate football head coach was the one that originally advocated for the one time transfer rule and brought it to the NCAA’s attention.

One free transfer and the ability to be a grad transfer is sufficient.  
 

The problem is the line gets blurred because the kids, reasoning for transferring is usually not what the rule was intended for.  Kids get home sick, change degree programs, etc…but now you had better build a big lead in the fourth quarter and get that back up freshman/sophomore quarterback some reps and allow him to throw the ball or else he’s gone.  

Many always think the grass is greener on the other side when in many cases it is not.  I have countless examples of athletes with whom I have worked where this is the case.

It all comes back to what I said in another thread. Commit to a school and not a coach.  Coaches have free will to come and go which also adds to this blurred line and double standard.  
 

But it is hard to have sympathy for athletes when they get stuck high and dry for not listening to this advice.

The plight of the “ poor student athlete” is sensationalized and overblown.

But that is all they have.

 

[DE]

8 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

ok...I hope that statement was an attempt at humor...seems a little extreme.

Wasn't long ago that a student athlete could transfer, but had to lay out a year.  But they could always transfer.  In the Big 10 conference, wasn't that long ago that a student could transfer, but lost the scholarship.  I believe Jeff George experienced this leaving Purdue for Illinois.

I don't think anyone is arguing for the abolishment of the ability to transfer.....but for perhaps some accountability for their decisions which hopefully will result in a higher degree of dedication and perseverance.  I thought the rule the old rule of laying out a year for staying at the same level of play was just fine.  

Let's be honest...athletes in many cases, don't have to meet the same academic criteria that the non-athlete needs to be admitted to an institution.  In a high % of schools, NCAA minimums won't get the average student admitted.  So there is already an admittance break that has been afforded to many athletes.  Show some level of gratitude and moxie to compete before giving up and heading to "greener pastures".

Only an opinion.....

He has no humor.  He has a hard time detecting sarcasm.  Reminds me a lot of Dr. Sheldon Cooper at times.  🤣

[gonzoron]

17 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

..athletes in many cases, don't have to meet the same academic criteria that the non-athlete needs to be admitted to an institution. 

How many? Do you have any documentation that confirms this? I have seen no first hand evidence of this personally, nor have I heard any evidence of this from the many college-bound athletes I personally know. 

 

20 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

In a high % of schools, NCAA minimums won't get the average student admitted. 

Correct. So are there schools who are compromising their admittance standards to allow athletes in? Where can one find this list, I may need it next year.

[SenatorFan]

Curt Flood proved many years ago it’s all about $$ and control. It has just taken this many years to trickle down to high school and college athletics. 
If a coach can move from school to school or team to team at will then the student/athlete should have the same freedom. 
It is hypocrisy to require the student/athlete to be held to a “commitment” while allowing a team/coach/school to change their decision/commitment at will. 
The NCAA does not have a legal/moral leg to stand on with their control of an athlete changing schools when the everyday student can change schools much easier. 
The IHSAA can claim they are acting in the best interest of the student/athlete, but we all know that transfers are approved based on financial/political connections. 
 

[DE]

17 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

How many? Do you have any documentation that confirms this? I have seen no first hand evidence of this personally, nor have I heard any evidence of this from the many college-bound athletes I personally know. 

 

Correct. So are there schools who are compromising their admittance standards to allow athletes in? Where can one find this list, I may need it next year.

See Notre Dame.  
See Duke.