Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, BTF said: Lol, you have an answer for everything. Well yeah, I was asked a question. I answered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinePrint Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: I’d tell Elkhart and Warsaw to beef up their schedules. Elkhart has the second easiest schedule of any 6A team in the state (and lost to the single 6A opponent they’ve played) while Warsaw hasn’t played a single 6A opponent yet. So your not really a proponent of winning. You would prefer that coaches use the Avon model over the Elkhart model. Tell the kids losing is fine, just as long as you lose to the best teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just now, FinePrint said: So your not really a proponent of winning. You would prefer that coaches use the Avon model over the Elkhart model. Tell the kids losing is fine, just as long as you lose to the best teams. Avon wouldn’t be in a postseason that effectively cuts the field in half at the end of the regular season as they are currently a bottom half Sagarin rated team. If Warsaw or Elkhart played Avon’s schedule they wouldn’t be 7-1 or 6-2. What’s your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJJL Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Quote A lot of teams would do their best to avoid any competition during the regular season. I spent 5 years coaching in Illinois. This is EXACTLY what happened. Great point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinePrint Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Coach Curtis to his Warsaw players: "Boys, we're going to leave our conference next year and beef up our schedule! We might not win many games, but by golly, we're going to make the playoffs! So keep your heads up, boys! Winning 3 games and making the playoffs is a lot better than winning 8 and missing out!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, CJJL said: I spent 5 years coaching in Illinois. This is EXACTLY what happened. Great point. And teams that avoid competition (see Elkhart and Penn) run the risk of missing out on the postseason altogether under a rating system that simply measures more than just W-L. Unless every team plays a round robin schedule, comparing W-L record is a highly ineffective way of comparing teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Tippy said: In 1979 and 1980 South Bend St. Joe went 10-0 both years and did not make the cut. The lawsuit that prompted change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, FinePrint said: Coach Curtis to his Warsaw players: "Boys, we're going to leave our conference next year and beef up our schedule! We might not win many games, but by golly, we're going to make the playoffs! So keep your heads up, boys! Winning 3 games and making the playoffs is a lot better than winning 8 and missing out!" Is that his response to his team when they inevitably get shellacked after playing their first real competition? Logical sense says that Penn, Elkhart, and Warsaw need to ditch their current conferences, start their own, and reach out for help. Carroll and Homestead would be good additions, Snider and Dwenger on top of those two would be even better. Playoff qualification or not, this benefits all those schools in the long run when it is time to play real elimination games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Tippy said: In 1979 and 1980 South Bend St. Joe went 10-0 both years and did not make the cut. If P/P had their own class, that wouldn't have happened. And we wouldn't need a Success Factor. Kill 2 birds with one stone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippy Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: You said every team makes the NCAAT. You are 100% wrong in that regard. The teams that qualify for the NCAAT do so in part due to regular season success. The all-in format doesn’t reward regular season success, let alone recognize it. You’re completely contradicting yourself and furthering my point. You look foolish in the process as well. Keep trying. So it’s Cluster system or all-in? There’s no in-between? 50% inclusion is a compromise of both two terrible postseason formats. Solid analogy. Again, keep trying. They only used the Cluster system in 1983 and 1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tippy said: They only used the Cluster system in 1983 and 1984. Did the tournament in 1979 and 1980 actively take 50% of the field at the conclusion of the regular season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippy Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, gonzoron said: If P/P had their own class, that wouldn't have happened. And we wouldn't need a Success Factor. Kill 2 birds with one stone. I will have to add this to my "Oh MY" topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinePrint Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Avon wouldn’t be in a postseason that effectively cuts the field in half at the end of the regular season as they are currently a bottom half Sagarin rated team. If Warsaw or Elkhart played Avon’s schedule they wouldn’t be 7-1 or 6-2. What’s your point? Right. Missing it by 2 places. Maybe if they beat 2-6 Noblesville this week and the stars align they could still make it! To @Bobref's point, they would be playing a meaningful regular season game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippy Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Did the tournament in 1979 and 1980 actively take 50% of the field at the conclusion of the regular season? It just sounded like you thought that they were using the cluster system in 1979-1980. Some people like things they way they are and some don't. You can do whatever you want but its not going to stop blowout games. There might not be as many blowouts but things like this will still happen. Tippecanoe Valley 1979 Sectional Championship 67 Central Noble 0 Regional Championship 63 North Judson 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tippy said: It just sounded like you thought that they were using the cluster system in 1979-1980. Some people like things they way they are and some don't. You can do whatever you want but its not going to stop blowout games. There might not be as many blowouts but things like this will still happen. Tippecanoe Valley 1979 Sectional Championship 67 Central Noble 0 Regional Championship 63 North Judson 6 Blowouts are the very least of my concern when it comes to the all-in. In fact I encourage them until the IHSAA wakes up and says enough is enough. My issue with the all-in is that it renders the regular season meaningless. In fact it doesn’t even acknowledge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippy Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Blowouts are the very least of my concern when it comes to the all-in. In fact I encourage them until the IHSAA wakes up and says enough is enough. My issue with the all-in is that it renders the regular season meaningless. In fact it doesn’t even acknowledge it. I think every game means something to someone. I don't think they are going to change things anytime soon. You seem very unhappy about this. I don't know what to tell you. All we can do is enjoy the rest of this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinePrint Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: My issue with the all-in is that it renders the regular season meaningless. In fact it doesn’t even acknowledge it. If the regular season is so meaningless, why are we all on here every week talking about that week's games? 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, FinePrint said: If the regular season is so meaningless, why are we all on here every week talking about that week's games? Think how many more people you could annoy with the interest generated by multiple “quasi-playoff” games every week! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 58 minutes ago, FinePrint said: Right. Missing it by 2 places. Maybe if they beat 2-6 Noblesville this week and the stars align they could still make it! To @Bobref's point, they would be playing a meaningful regular season game. Hey, at least someone is catching on. You’re coachable, I’ll give you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, FinePrint said: Coach Curtis to his Warsaw players: "Boys, we're going to leave our conference next year and beef up our schedule! We might not win many games, but by golly, we're going to make the playoffs! So keep your heads up, boys! Winning 3 games and making the playoffs is a lot better than winning 8 and missing out!" I pointed out previously, I think a situation of qualifications could have implications on conferences and rivalries and possibly beyond. What does that mean to Indiana? I'm less sure as I'm a reverse carpetbagger round these parts, but I hear that conferences are big in Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 38 minutes ago, Tippy said: I think every game means something to someone. I don't think they are going to change things anytime soon. You seem very unhappy about this. I don't know what to tell you. All we can do is enjoy the rest of this season. I do find the discussion somewhat interesting as I've never seen anything close to a groundswell of support FROM THE PLAYERS about regular season games not meaning anything. It might be a fan issue, but of the various players that I've known over the years in Indiana, I've not ever heard of complaints about the regular season games not meaning anything. The smell on the bus? Check. The long drive into another timezone? Check. The small visiting locker room with one working toilet? Check. Not getting cheese on the Subway sandwiches on the ride even though their parents paid for cheese? Check. Horrible fields? Check. Too hot? Check. Too cold? Check. Regular season games not meaning something? Not so much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, foxbat said: I do find the discussion somewhat interesting as I've never seen anything close to a groundswell of support FROM THE PLAYERS about regular season games not meaning anything. It might be a fan issue, but of the various players that I've known over the years in Indiana, I've not ever heard of complaints about the regular season games not meaning anything. The smell on the bus? Check. The long drive into another timezone? Check. The small visiting locker room with one working toilet? Check. Not getting cheese on the Subway sandwiches on the ride even though their parents paid for cheese? Check. Horrible fields? Check. Too hot? Check. Too cold? Check. Regular season games not meaning something? Not so much. This. If you told any coach or player in the state that regular season games don't mean anything, you'd get laughed out of the room. As you should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, foxbat said: I do find the discussion somewhat interesting as I've never seen anything close to a groundswell of support FROM THE PLAYERS about regular season games not meaning anything. It might be a fan issue, but of the various players that I've known over the years in Indiana, I've not ever heard of complaints about the regular season games not meaning anything. The smell on the bus? Check. The long drive into another timezone? Check. The small visiting locker room with one working toilet? Check. Not getting cheese on the Subway sandwiches on the ride even though their parents paid for cheese? Check. Horrible fields? Check. Too hot? Check. Too cold? Check. Regular season games not meaning something? Not so much. At the end of the day, the final score of all 9 regular season games mean absolute ZILCH in regards to the postseason. That is a fact and is irrefutable. You can take absolute joy in winning a conference championship or beating a huge rival, but at the end of the day and the end of the regular season it means jack squat. Everybody reverts back to 0-0. There’s zero gained advantage by having a better regular season than your peers. It’s a travesty. It happens nowhere else in this country outside IHSAA sanctioned tournaments. What you accomplish in the regular season is meaningless come week 10. Change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, scarab527 said: This. If you told any coach or player in the state that regular season games don't mean anything, you'd get laughed out of the room. As you should be. If you tell your players that going undefeated puts you in the best position to advance in the tournament, you’d be called an absolute liar. As you should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: If you tell your players that going undefeated puts you in the best position to advance in the tournament, you’d be called an absolute liar. As you should be. Good thing no one is making that claim lmao. Keep constructing strawmen so that you can knock them down. Hope it makes you feel better about yourself. This is getting sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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