Game replay

[Bobref]

17 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Could it be these pictures are just a hoax?  Cleverly photoshopped images perpetuated by a disgruntled Clinton Prairie fan/parent?

 

That is only marginally less likely than the back judge (as well as everyone on the sideline) missing it for 3 consecutive plays. 😂🤣

[gonzoron]

2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Could it be these pictures are just a hoax?  Cleverly photoshopped images perpetuated by a disgruntled Clinton Prairie fan/parent?

 

You can count 'em yourself if you take one shoe and sock off. I swear to god you can. Start about the 2:32:00 ( -7:55) point of the video. 

https://www.ihsaatv.org/?B=445082

[dazed and confused]

On 10/23/2022 at 9:29 PM, Donnie Baker said:

No but I’ll check. 

Still no update ?

[Donnie Baker]

1 hour ago, dazed and confused said:

Still no update ?

Obviously no replay. I’ll post more later. Right now I’m jammin to Zeppelin. I swear to God I am

Edited October 26, 2022 by Donnie Baker

[dazed and confused]

7 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

Obviously no replay. I’ll post more later. Right now I’m jammin to Zeppelin. I swear to God I am

Cool ! I really like that song "Dazed and Confused", even with all the controversry !!!

[Donnie Baker]

23 minutes ago, dazed and confused said:

Cool ! I really like that song "Dazed and Confused", even with all the controversry !!!

The live virgin is best!

[Donnie Baker]

8 hours ago, Lucy Draper said:

My son came home talking about this situation and I couldn't believe it! 🤯 I talked with some of his coaches and they told me this is actually more common than you would believe. They said more than once they've been watching game recordings for other teams and have seen the team on defense use 12 players and not get caught. I couldn't believe it, but they said they have seen 12 players on the field for the defense for multiple plays in a row before the officials noticed it! 🥴 

Following my fact finding mission, I told my son that he should help make sure his team never has more than 11 players on the field! The football referees are human too and they deserve some grace when they mess up! 🤗

One play maybe. 3 plays in a row that close including 1 coming out of a timeout? 

5 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Could it be these pictures are just a hoax?  Cleverly photoshopped images perpetuated by a disgruntled Clinton Prairie fan/parent?

 

You seem to have issues with your county brethren, I swear to God you do

[JustRules]

This back judge probably never misses a count again. You need to count every play especially coming out of a time out. The first two plays were coming out of time outs. 

[Muda69]

2 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

You seem to have issues with your county brethren, I swear to God you do

No issues. Just speculation.

 

[Donnie Baker]

14 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

No issues. Just speculation.

 

Too many backhanded shots over the years for speculations. And it’s on video. 

[Muda69]

8 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

Too many backhanded shots over the years for speculations. And it’s on video. 

Links please to these "too many backhanded shots" concerning Clinton Prairie.

10/17/08 96-0. Never forget.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Muda69

[Ballhawk]

20 hours ago, Lucy Draper said:

My son came home talking about this situation and I couldn't believe it! 🤯 I talked with some of his coaches and they told me this is actually more common than you would believe. They said more than once they've been watching game recordings for other teams and have seen the team on defense use 12 players and not get caught. I couldn't believe it, but they said they have seen 12 players on the field for the defense for multiple plays in a row before the officials noticed it! 🥴 

Following my fact finding mission, I told my son that he should help make sure his team never has more than 11 players on the field! The football referees are human too and they deserve some grace when they mess up! 🤗

Yes, referees are human, but their inability to do their jobs properly may have caused a team's season to end.  For the CP seniors, their HS careers are over.  This crew deserves nothing.  This wasn't a judgment call, it was a routine duty that the back judge missed three times.

An extra player on defense on a short field is a huge advantage.

[FastpacedO]

9 minutes ago, Ballhawk said:

An extra player on defense on a short field is a huge advantage.

Genius Defensive Coordinator, might have taken summer lessons with Bill Belichick!

[Impartial_Observer]

You guys might be amazed at what I was able to talk umpires into when I was coaching. 

[Bobref]

11 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

You guys might be amazed at what I was able to talk umpires into when I was coaching. 

You have an unfair advantage in that regard. 😂🤣

[JustRules]

2 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

An extra player on defense on a short field is a huge advantage.

In many cases yes, but after watching these plays I'm not sure they had much impact in this case. That doesn't absolve the officials at all, but it make the pain a little less. The second down play a back dropped a wide open TD pass. Third play looks like a miscommunication between receiver and passer on a single coverage route as the pass dropped in an area with no receiver. This is a good crew that made a major mistake at a key point in a game. Do this long enough and it will happen to you. They are young, and I expect they'll be a crew that advances deep into the tournament in the future.

[Ballhawk]

5 minutes ago, JustRules said:

In many cases yes, but after watching these plays I'm not sure they had much impact in this case. That doesn't absolve the officials at all, but it make the pain a little less. The second down play a back dropped a wide open TD pass. Third play looks like a miscommunication between receiver and passer on a single coverage route as the pass dropped in an area with no receiver. This is a good crew that made a major mistake at a key point in a game. Do this long enough and it will happen to you. They are young, and I expect they'll be a crew that advances deep into the tournament in the future.

I agree to an extent, but what if the extra defenders in the box forced Prairie to do something they weren't as comfortable with?  Extra defenders in the box pretty much took away the run.  I would also agree that if the pass is held onto there is no topic to discuss, but what if the pass was made easier without the extra players along the LOS?  There's a lot of woulda, coulda, shouldas in this whole sequence.  Too bad it had to happen at all.

I hope this crew learns a valuable lesson and never lets something like this happen again.

[gonzoron]

29 minutes ago, JustRules said:

In many cases yes, but after watching these plays I'm not sure they had much impact in this case. That doesn't absolve the officials at all, but it make the pain a little less. The second down play a back dropped a wide open TD pass. Third play looks like a miscommunication between receiver and passer on a single coverage route as the pass dropped in an area with no receiver. This is a good crew that made a major mistake at a key point in a game. Do this long enough and it will happen to you. They are young, and I expect they'll be a crew that advances deep into the tournament in the future.

Let’s hope not

[Bobref]

18 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

The live virgin is best!

You mean, as opposed to a dead virgin? 😵‍💫

6 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Let’s hope not

Improvement is possible. I am living proof.

[Yuccaguy]

17 minutes ago, Bobref said:

You mean, as opposed to a dead virgin? 😵‍💫

Improvement is possible. I am living proof.

 

[JustRules]

8 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Let’s hope not

Your kid misses a block or runs the wrong route and you hope he never plays again? Why do we expect officials to be perfect and never makes mistakes? Especially at the HS level coaches, players and officials make mistakes. None of them are intentional. Even the best coaches, players, and officials make mistakes. Attitudes like this contribute to losing officials. It doesn't have to be the direct verbal abuse on the field or threats or acts of violence. Constant, repeated negativity wears on you, especially newer officials who are still learning. Fortunately most people here recognize this wasn't intentional and there is no calling for them to be banned. A suspension would definitely be justified in this case but then move on. The crew will be fine.

[gonzoron]

1 hour ago, JustRules said:

especially newer officials who are still learning.

If they're so new they don't know the fundamentals, they shouldn't be working a playoff game. There were at least 32 other crews sitting at home Friday. This wasn't just one mistake, it was several in a row. And who knows if they counted players at any point in the game if they weren't doing it at the end? Hopefully the crew gets some extensive retraining, the first training didn't take.

[JustRules]

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

If they're so new they don't know the fundamentals, they shouldn't be working a playoff game. There were at least 32 other crews sitting at home Friday. This wasn't just one mistake, it was several in a row. And who knows if they counted players at any point in the game if they weren't doing it at the end? Hopefully the crew gets some extensive retraining, the first training didn't take.

I wasn't referring to this crew as being "new" they all have several years of experience. But nobody is perfect. Yes, this was a big mistake that should not be excused. But it also shouldn't prevent them from learning from this mistake and advancing in the future. Your comment basically said this crew should never advance in the tournament ever again. This is the third year for this particular referee in that role which is a key reason they have only worked 1 round in previous years. Advancement is based largely on recognition over performance and they aren't known yet by a lot of coaches.

Counting the offense and defense has to happen EVERY play. It's easy to get complacent when you have counted 150 times and always had 11. Have a lapse in concentration and the one (or at least three in this case) and you miss it at the wrong time! Especially when the first two plays they were coming out of time outs you have plenty of time to get your count. If the offense is in hurry up and the defense tries to sub it can be difficult to get your count on time. That wasn't an issue in any of these plays.

The young comment was more for the officials we get who quit after 2-3 years working a heavy load of sub-varsity and youth games. Here is a good video that was published recently about the officiating shortage. It includes some data of the losses and why people leave. There is a difference in acknowledging the mistake and saying this crew should never advance in the tournament. Again, it would be like me saying your son was called for a holding foul that brought back a key TD at the end of a game and should never start again.

 

[gonzoron]

4 hours ago, JustRules said:

Advancement is based largely on recognition over performance and they aren't known yet by a lot of coaches.

I imagine that has changed.

4 hours ago, JustRules said:

Counting the offense and defense has to happen EVERY play. It's easy to get complacent when you have counted 150 times and always had 11.

He had 1 job.

4 hours ago, JustRules said:

Again, it would be like me saying your son was called for a holding foul that brought back a key TD at the end of a game and should never start again.

That hasn't happened. If you have video, feel free to post it and we can discuss it. Defensive linemen don't typically get called for holding.

If the IHSAA doesn't feel there should be any accountability for these incidents, it's no skin off my nose, I don't have a dog in the fight.

Not sure what your video is, it's not showing up on my screen due to "privacy settings."

 

[Bobref]

26 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

He had 1 job.

This was inexcusable. There’s no defense for it. Having said that, it doesn’t help when fans like you make statements like this, which portray the back judge as a guy just standing around with his thumb up his a$$. In reality the back judge has a number of pre-snap responsibilities in addition to counting the defense, just like everyone else in the crew. Sometimes the hardest things to know are what you don’t know.