2A State Championship Bishop Luers vs North Posey

[btownqbcoach1]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:39 AM, ragdoll said:

When Lutheran dismantled Triton Central early on, and later seeing TC in person and their continued success to semistate, it was a sign to me that 2A may be suspicious. They are a decent team and program under Tim Able, but were driven by one superstar at that level. One player can only do so much, unless you are James Banks, who created absolute chaos.

mmmm... TC's best WR didn't play against North Posey. 

[BendNotBreak]

On 11/29/2023 at 9:41 AM, Titan32 said:

Typically when you hear from the p/p faithful that a particular class or conference is "down" they don't really mean what we poor public guys think they mean.  What they actually mean is that in said class or conference there aren't one or two P/Ps playing at a much higher than everyone else, which in their mind "should" be the case for the year to be normal.  When perhaps those years shouldn't be considered the baseline at all, and instead those teams should compete in a different class altogether where they might at least get a little friction.

Came across this surfing... ther is some truth to this... but think ur off a bit on the psychology of it. PP kids by an large come from ther feeder schools... they dont think of themselves as having some sort of entitlement complex... they are just trying to win the games on the schedule...and rate themselves accordinly... it can be done because teams in the past have done it... i think Sheriden is public program that has a similar view on this.....

[BendNotBreak]

Pioneer is another.. Adams Central... Southridge... Linton is on board... others... Chatard has clerely outgrown 3A an are where they belong... all is well.... 

[BendNotBreak]

Will 2A Lures who lives and dies in the SAC replace Chatard in 3A.... hmmmmm idk.... but they will def be in a good position to know what it takes to win it......

[BTF]

6 hours ago, BendNotBreak said:

Will 2A Lures who lives and dies in the SAC replace Chatard in 3A.... hmmmmm idk.... but they will def be in a good position to know what it takes to win it......

They haven't done it yet. But then again, they are normally on the down tick when they bump up to 3A. We'll see what this year brings.

[Titan32]

8 hours ago, BendNotBreak said:

Came across this surfing... ther is some truth to this... but think ur off a bit on the psychology of it. PP kids by an large come from ther feeder schools... they dont think of themselves as having some sort of entitlement complex... they are just trying to win the games on the schedule...and rate themselves accordinly... it can be done because teams in the past have done it... i think Sheriden is public program that has a similar view on this.....

My post wasn't addressing the psychology of the kids...kids are kids, they are just trying to compete.  It's the adults who try to rationalize inherent advantages hiding behind enrollment alone as the "best" way to classify high school athletics.  Kids compete in the environment their family has placed them in...they have no choice.

[BendNotBreak]

2 hours ago, Titan32 said:

My post wasn't addressing the psychology of the kids...kids are kids, they are just trying to compete.  It's the adults who try to rationalize inherent advantages hiding behind enrollment alone as the "best" way to classify high school athletics.  Kids compete in the environment their family has placed them in...they have no choice.

Was jus attempting to address ur thoughts on how the PP faithful think when rating themselves/entire classes ect... really has nothing to do with how many PPs are still playing...

[hick]

11 hours ago, BendNotBreak said:

Came across this surfing... ther is some truth to this... but think ur off a bit on the psychology of it. PP kids by an large come from ther feeder schools... they dont think of themselves as having some sort of entitlement complex... they are just trying to win the games on the schedule...and rate themselves accordinly... it can be done because teams in the past have done it... i think Sheriden is public program that has a similar view on this.....

Linton playing Marion Local last weekend has confirmed to me the leanings I've developed on P/P schools over the past decade or so. 

Having seen Linton face a great LCC squad in 2015 & having our season ended by Evansville Mater Dei yearly from 2018-2022 (aslo multiple games vs both Scecina & Lutheran since 2011). I've concluded the advantages those P/P schools have are driven by culture, demographics and discipline. It's my opinion that recruiting/transfers is a very small part of their success (at least the schools I mentioned - can't speak on others) and likely no more of a factor than many of the better public schools enjoy.  There's always examples to the contrary - Bowman Academy's 2013 basketball team being one! 

Back to Marion Local. They looked very much like 2015 LCC and the better Mater Dei teams we faced. Very disciplined. Clearly some standout players, but what stood out most was everyone was solid. Consistent. Precise.

After speaking to some of their fans and others familiar with their program, the demographic similarities (aside from being rural vs urban) are striking to LCC & Mater Dei. ML's school district is over 80% catholic & has an extremely low poverty rate. Nearly 50% of boys enrolled participate in football.  

[tango]

20 minutes ago, hick said:

Linton playing Marion Local last weekend has confirmed to me the leanings I've developed on P/P schools over the past decade or so. 

Having seen Linton face a great LCC squad in 2015 & having our season ended by Evansville Mater Dei yearly from 2018-2022 (aslo multiple games vs both Scecina & Lutheran since 2011). I've concluded the advantages those P/P schools have are driven by culture, demographics and discipline. It's my opinion that recruiting/transfers is a very small part of their success (at least the schools I mentioned - can't speak on others) and likely no more of a factor than many of the better public schools enjoy.  There's always examples to the contrary - Bowman Academy's 2013 basketball team being one! 

Back to Marion Local. They looked very much like 2015 LCC and the better Mater Dei teams we faced. Very disciplined. Clearly some standout players, but what stood out most was everyone was solid. Consistent. Precise.

After speaking to some of their fans and others familiar with their program, the demographic similarities (aside from being rural vs urban) are striking to LCC & Mater Dei. ML's school district is over 80% catholic & has an extremely low poverty rate. Nearly 50% of boys enrolled participate in football.  

Kudos to you. 

[Titan32]

1 hour ago, tango said:

culture, demographics and discipline

These things are much much more easily obtainable with a student body made up entirely of those who have paid/sacrificed hard-earned dollars for an exclusive experience. 

 

[BendNotBreak]

7 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

These things are much much more easily obtainable with a student body made up entirely of those who have paid/sacrificed hard-earned dollars for an exclusive experience. 

 

Public schools with similar demographics... WL  ect comes to mind....

[Titan32]

1 minute ago, BendNotBreak said:

Public schools with similar demographics... WL  ect comes to mind....

GS has great Demographics as does Castle...but neither school can come remotely close to our area P/Ps with regard to student population homogeneity.  Said another way, even the best publics have ~ 30 percent or more of students who are only there because they have a pulse and law says they have to be, not to mention services for mild to moderately mentally and physically challenged students.  Culture, demographics and discipline aren't unique to P/Ps. Having a student population expecting results for a fee is.  Enrollment alone won't work and hasn't worked in any state in the Union...that is why every state has some mechanism (good or bad) designed to help compensate for the issue. 

[BendNotBreak]

3 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

GS has great Demographics as does Castle...but neither school can come remotely close to our area P/Ps with regard to student population homogeneity.  Said another way, even the best publics have ~ 30 percent or more of students who are only there because they have a pulse and law says they have to be, not to mention services for mild to moderately mentally and physically challenged students.  Culture, demographics and discipline aren't unique to P/Ps. Having a student population expecting results for a fee is.  Enrollment alone won't work and hasn't worked in any state in the Union...that is why every state has some mechanism (good or bad) designed to help compensate for the issue. 

The sterotype of PP kids being some sort of highly motivated cream de la creme is overblown.....

[Titan32]

1 minute ago, BendNotBreak said:

The sterotype of PP kids being some sort of highly motivated cream de la creme is overblown.....

Perhaps...but worlds apart from the dissimilar institution called a public school

[BendNotBreak]

8 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Perhaps...but worlds apart from the dissimilar institution called a public school

Discipline??  Hmmmmm

[Titan32]

1 minute ago, BendNotBreak said:

Discipline??  Hmmmmm

Exactly!  P/P parents pay/sacrifice hard-earned $$$ so that their children are educated in a safe/highly disciplined environment.  Levels of discipline vary greatly across the public landscape.  Consistency is part of the exclusive experience at a P/P which leads to an environment more conducive to successful athletics.

[BendNotBreak]

2 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Exactly!  P/P parents pay/sacrifice hard-earned $$$ so that their children are educated in a safe/highly disciplined environment.  Levels of discipline vary greatly across the public landscape.  Consistency is part of the exclusive experience at a P/P which leads to an environment more conducive to successful athletics.

Its circular then... which takes me back to say... a WL type Public...

[Titan32]

3 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Its circular then... which takes me back to say... a WL type Public...

I can't speak to the level of discipline at WL.  You would know much better than I.

[First_Backer_Inside]

5 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Its circular then... which takes me back to say... a WL type Public...

Depends on what your definition of success is. WL versus other publics, very successful. WL versus privates the same size as them....ehhh

[Titan32]

Just now, First_Backer_Inside said:

Depends on what your definition of success is. WL versus other publics, very successful. WL versus privates the same size as them....ehhh

Probably because being the same "size" based on enrollment is apples to oranges.

[BendNotBreak]

6 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Probably because being the same "size" based on enrollment is apples to oranges.

R ther any studies on the stability of famlies... generation after generation.. attending the same school... When..Will say ... ther be a next generation of Karlaftis attending WL??  Happens less frequently at Publics then PPs?

[BendNotBreak]

As a Great Public School Coach once said... Its Jimmys and Joes... Not Xs and Os.... 

[Donnie Baker]

1 hour ago, BendNotBreak said:

Public schools with similar demographics... WL  ect comes to mind....

West Lafayettes isn’t your typical public school. I swear to God it’s not 

[Titan32]

23 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

As a Great Public School Coach once said... Its Jimmys and Joes... Not Xs and Os.... 

Agree with that guy....most good public coaches would look great at a P/P!

[BendNotBreak]

1 minute ago, Titan32 said:

Agree with that guy....most good public coaches would look great at a P/P!

Esp when u hav a Zachary or Kiser on board!! 😊