Sectional Scores Week 1

[Justasportsfan]

5 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Danville kid who had the Pick 6 should have given himself up before he crossed the goal line. Only 14 seconds were left, Brebeuf only had two timeouts out, so Danville takes three knees and the game is over. Hard for a kid that age though to not take it to the house.

He seen the after party n his name in the record books..99.9% of the time that play seals the game n he gets the cheerleader..in his defense he may still get her after this heartbreaker 💔 

Edited October 26, 2024 by Justasportsfan

[BigBrebeufFan]

1 minute ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Danville kid who had the Pick 6 should have given himself up before he crossed the goal line. Only 14 seconds were left, Brebeuf only had two timeouts out, so Danville takes three knees and the game is over. Hard for a kid that age though to not take it to the house.

I’ll take it a step further. Brebeuf had the ball inside the 20 with under 4 mins left up by 7. Run on first down and Danville calls their first timeout. Incomplete pass on second down. Sack on third down pushes the kicker outside of his range and missed the field goal.  
 

If Brebeuf had just run the ball 3 times, forced Danville to use their time outs, and kicked a chip shot field goal to go up by ten, then the end game plays out entirely differently.

[WestfieldRocks]

2 minutes ago, miner_35 said:

If it is as described, I wouldn’t say a screw job as much as a lack of knowledge in that rule. If it did not affect the play, you call 15 yd UNS and that is enforced as a dead ball foul. So no replay of the down. If they considered it as affecting the play, you have illegal participation and you do replay the down.

I'm not sure what they called. There was not a mike on the ref, at least on that play. The officials had a discussion before even throwing a flag. Lasted for several minutes. Needless to say, the Danville staff was really upset. 

[PHJIrish]

It wasn't the only questionable call of the night.  The game lasting 3 1/2 hours says a lot about the quality of the officiating.

It's been many years since I've seen a team win on a fifth down.

Edited October 26, 2024 by PHJIrish
Another thought

[Justasportsfan]

6 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

I'm not sure what they called. There was not a mike on the ref, at least on that play. The officials had a discussion before even throwing a flag. Lasted for several minutes. Needless to say, the Danville staff was really upset. 

Id also like to know what the official call was..

[Boiler Boog]

16 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Danville kid who had the Pick 6 should have given himself up before he crossed the goal line. Only 14 seconds were left, Brebeuf only had two timeouts out, so Danville takes three knees and the game is over. Hard for a kid that age though to not take it to the house.

Yes. Brebeuf made a huge mistake in the first half on clock management at well. They got a first down on Danville 3 yd line with a minute left and went hurry up for some reason. They could have milked time off the clock. They end up scoring but the extra time allowed Danville to get a Hail Mary as time expired in the first half. Game should have been 21-7 at half of Brebeuf did better clock management but ended up 21-14.

[Justasportsfan]

10 minutes ago, BigBrebeufFan said:

I’ll take it a step further. Brebeuf had the ball inside the 20 with under 4 mins left up by 7. Run on first down and Danville calls their first timeout. Incomplete pass on second down. Sack on third down pushes the kicker outside of his range and missed the field goal.  
 

If Brebeuf had just run the ball 3 times, forced Danville to use their time outs, and kicked a chip shot field goal to go up by ten, then the end game plays out entirely differently.

They gave up a 21 pt lead in the 4th..in your opinion were there more than a few questionable play calls before that missed fg?

[BigBrebeufFan]

4 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

They gave up a 21 pt lead in the 4th..in your opinion were there more than a few questionable play calls before that missed fg?

Not necessarily. There were a few penalties that wiped out some big plays and caused drives to stall out. I can think of two off the top of my head.
 

It didn’t help that Danville went about 80 yards in 4 plays on one of those 4th quarter drives. After that happened, momentum was squarely behind them.

[temptation]

8 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Agree! The play looked to be over when Danville sacked the Brebeuf QB on the 4th down of the OT. The players that did come on the field did not come on that far, and as the announcers said, they had no impact on the game. Looked like a total screw job by the refs.

Bob will be here soon to defend them.

He’d defend Hellen Keller or Stevie Wonder if they were wearing zebra stripes.

Edited October 26, 2024 by temptation

[Bobref]

40 minutes ago, temptation said:

Bob will be here soon to defend them.

He’d defend Hellen Keller or Stevie Wonder if they were wearing zebra stripes.

And you’d defend Benedict Arnold if he had one of those ugly striped helmets on his head. 😂

Seriously, I’m going to hang fire until I find out what actually happened. I know that’s a revolutionary approach where officiating is concerned, but I’m going to try it. I’ll let you know what I find out.

[globemstr3]

10 hours ago, Stoner said:

SV in the red zone 08:4 left

Great Job SV! Game of the week in the South. See you in Linton next Friday.

[Coach Nowlin]

FULL GAME:   Fast forward to like 3 min left in regulation:   Wild does not begin to describe it 

https://www.ihsaatv.org/?B=1460710

 

That's about 2 hours 47 min into the game if you just scroll it to the right 

 

[npcougar15]

Extremely wild how Brebeuf "won" that game. There were multiple points where there had to be less than a 1% chance of winning for each team in the last minute of the game. Insane.

34D-35B, 40 seconds left. If Danville doesn't get the 2 point conversion game is over.

36D-35B, Brebeuf throws a pick 6 with 14 seconds left. If the Danville kids goes down. Game over. Hard to fault a kid for scoring there but at that point Danville had the game won.

43D-35B, 4 seconds left. Brebeuf has to 60 yards on 1 play. They have 4 laterals, one of which is even batted down by Danville and bounces perfectly to the Brebeuf player. Insane.

43D-41B, Brebeuf has to convert on the 2 point conversion. A mass of humanity takes place and the Brebeuf kid barely gets into the end zone (he did get in though)

43D-43B, Danville scores. 49D-43B. Goes for 2 but gets stuffed right at the line.

49D-43B, 4&8 Danville appears to sack the quarterback but he drops the football nearly simultaneously when his knee is about to hit (super smart). Brebeuf lineman picks it up and is immediately tackled by multiple Danville kids. Game over.

Coaches shake hands. Refs meet for a few minutes. Throw a flag. VERY controversial call; move the ball up 5 yards and redo play.

4&3, Brebeuf scores. 49D-49B. 

Brebeuf's extra point is good. But of course there is a flag. Offsides on Danville, the penalty is "declined" refs say the game is over. But wait. The Danville coach points out that they would have to rekick. 

Rekick is good Brebeuf wins 50-49. Just an absolutely insane serious of events. 

 

[Bobref]

I’ve reviewed the above clip of the play in question. Here’s what I saw:

The Brebeuf QB has the ball, comes under pressure, scrambles around, is hit, and goes down. The ball comes out, and no one blows the whistle, so they obviously felt it was a fumble. The loose ball is recovered by a Brebeuf player who carries it a short distance, and is then tackled. The play started at about the 7 yd. line. The QB went down about the 6. The ball became loose and was recovered about the 9, with the runner going down at the 11, between the Danville hash and the center of the field. All of this action took place between the hash mark on the Danville side of the field and the middle of the field. 

After the QB goes down, and while the ball was loose and during the run after it was recovered, Danville players in uniform left the bench area, and crossed the sideline to celebrate with their on-field teammates, some of whom can be observed running to meet them while the ball was still alive. The entering players got as far as the 15 yd. line. None got further on the field than the 9 yd. marks on the Danville side.

Now let’s look at the relevant rules:

9-6-4 . . . It is illegal participation:

    a. When any player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant enters and participates during a down.”

2-30 … “Participation is any act or action by a player or nonplayer that has an influence on play.”

9-8-1 . . . No coach, substitute, athletic trainer or other team attendant shall act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the game officials assume authority for the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:”

“i. Being on the field except as a substitute or replaced player.”

Both illegal participation and unsportsmanlike conduct are 15 yd. penalties. In this case, the critical difference is in their enforcement. Illegal participation is a live ball foul. If accepted, replay of the down is required. Unsportsmanlike conduct, on the other hand, is always enforced as a dead ball foul, regardless of when it occurs. This means the result of the play stands, and enforcement is from the succeeding spot. 

So, the question here is whether the Danville players coming off the sideline “participated,” or not. Looking at this video clip, it’s very hard to make the case that they did. None of them got farther into the field than the 9 yd. marks. The play was inside the hash at all times, and was actually moving away from the Danville sideline as the players were entering the field to celebrate. None of the Brebeuf players appeared to have been hindered or distracted by the Danville players entering the field.

It’s just my opinion, and it’s based on this single video clip, but I believe the right call here — if you’re going to call anything — is unsportsmanlike conduct on Danville. The play stands. The game is over. The crew chief makes an unsportsmanlike conduct report to the IHSAA.

Having said all that, let me add something else. Not by way of excuse or justification, but to make the explanation more complete. It almost goes without saying that this is an extremely unusual situation. I encountered only one that was even vaguely similar in 40 yrs. on the field and 7 as an observer. The pressure as you’re standing there talking with the crew, trying to get it right, is difficult to describe if you haven’t been there.  Without the luxury of video review, the crew on the field would have a difficult time determining when the Danville bench players entered the field, since their attention was understandably focused elsewhere. If they were unsure, the logical thing to do is give the benefit of the doubt to the offended team, in this case, Brebeuf. I’m not saying that’s what happened. It’s just a thought that occurred to me when I was trying to put myself in this Referee’s place.

[WestfieldRocks]

5 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

FULL GAME:   Fast forward to like 3 min left in regulation:   Wild does not begin to describe it 

https://www.ihsaatv.org/?B=1460710

 

That's about 2 hours 47 min into the game if you just scroll it to the right 

 

And the game tool about 3:15 to play!

[vicvinegar]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I’ve reviewed the above clip of the play in question. Here’s what I saw:

The Brebeuf QB has the ball, comes under pressure, scrambles around, is hit, and goes down. The ball comes out, and no one blows the whistle, so they obviously felt it was a fumble. The loose ball is recovered by a Brebeuf player who carries it a short distance, and is then tackled. The play started at about the 7 yd. line. The QB went down about the 6. The ball became loose and was recovered about the 9, with the runner going down at the 11, between the Danville hash and the center of the field. All of this action took place between the hash mark on the Danville side of the field and the middle of the field. 

After the QB goes down, and while the ball was loose and during the run after it was recovered, Danville players in uniform left the bench area, and crossed the sideline to celebrate with their on-field teammates, some of whom can be observed running to meet them while the ball was still alive. The entering players got as far as the 15 yd. line. None got further on the field than the 9 yd. marks on the Danville side.

Now let’s look at the relevant rules:

9-6-4 . . . It is illegal participation:

    a. When any player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant enters and participates during a down.”

2-30 … “Participation is any act or action by a player or nonplayer that has an influence on play.”

9-8-1 . . . No coach, substitute, athletic trainer or other team attendant shall act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the game officials assume authority for the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:”

“i. Being on the field except as a substitute or replaced player.”

Both illegal participation and unsportsmanlike conduct are 15 yd. penalties. In this case, the critical difference is in their enforcement. Illegal participation is a live ball foul. If accepted, replay of the down is required. Unsportsmanlike conduct, on the other hand, is always enforced as a dead ball foul, regardless of when it occurs. This means the result of the play stands, and enforcement is from the succeeding spot. 

So, the question here is whether the Danville players coming off the sideline “participated,” or not. Looking at this video clip, it’s very hard to make the case that they did. None of them got farther into the field than the 9 yd. marks. The play was inside the hash at all times, and was actually moving away from the Danville sideline as the players were entering the field to celebrate. None of the Brebeuf players appeared to have been hindered or distracted by the Danville players entering the field.

It’s just my opinion, and it’s based on this single video clip, but I believe the right call here — if you’re going to call anything — is unsportsmanlike conduct on Danville. The play stands. The game is over. The crew chief makes an unsportsmanlike conduct report to the IHSAA.

Having said all that, let me add something else. Not by way of excuse or justification, but to make the explanation more complete. It almost goes without saying that this is an extremely unusual situation. I encountered only one that was even vaguely similar in 40 yrs. on the field and 7 as an observer. The pressure as you’re standing there talking with the crew, trying to get it right, is difficult to describe if you haven’t been there.  Without the luxury of video review, the crew on the field would have a difficult time determining when the Danville bench players entered the field, since their attention was understandably focused elsewhere. If they were unsure, the logical thing to do is give the benefit of the doubt to the offended team, in this case, Brebeuf. I’m not saying that’s what happened. It’s just a thought that occurred to me when I was trying to put myself in this Referee’s place.

Just curious, could this have been a sideline warning? 

[WestfieldRocks]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I’ve reviewed the above clip of the play in question. Here’s what I saw:

The Brebeuf QB has the ball, comes under pressure, scrambles around, is hit, and goes down. The ball comes out, and no one blows the whistle, so they obviously felt it was a fumble. The loose ball is recovered by a Brebeuf player who carries it a short distance, and is then tackled. The play started at about the 7 yd. line. The QB went down about the 6. The ball became loose and was recovered about the 9, with the runner going down at the 11, between the Danville hash and the center of the field. All of this action took place between the hash mark on the Danville side of the field and the middle of the field. 

After the QB goes down, and while the ball was loose and during the run after it was recovered, Danville players in uniform left the bench area, and crossed the sideline to celebrate with their on-field teammates, some of whom can be observed running to meet them while the ball was still alive. The entering players got as far as the 15 yd. line. None got further on the field than the 9 yd. marks on the Danville side.

Now let’s look at the relevant rules:

9-6-4 . . . It is illegal participation:

    a. When any player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant enters and participates during a down.”

2-30 … “Participation is any act or action by a player or nonplayer that has an influence on play.”

9-8-1 . . . No coach, substitute, athletic trainer or other team attendant shall act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the game officials assume authority for the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:”

“i. Being on the field except as a substitute or replaced player.”

Both illegal participation and unsportsmanlike conduct are 15 yd. penalties. In this case, the critical difference is in their enforcement. Illegal participation is a live ball foul. If accepted, replay of the down is required. Unsportsmanlike conduct, on the other hand, is always enforced as a dead ball foul, regardless of when it occurs. This means the result of the play stands, and enforcement is from the succeeding spot. 

So, the question here is whether the Danville players coming off the sideline “participated,” or not. Looking at this video clip, it’s very hard to make the case that they did. None of them got farther into the field than the 9 yd. marks. The play was inside the hash at all times, and was actually moving away from the Danville sideline as the players were entering the field to celebrate. None of the Brebeuf players appeared to have been hindered or distracted by the Danville players entering the field.

It’s just my opinion, and it’s based on this single video clip, but I believe the right call here — if you’re going to call anything — is unsportsmanlike conduct on Danville. The play stands. The game is over. The crew chief makes an unsportsmanlike conduct report to the IHSAA.

Having said all that, let me add something else. Not by way of excuse or justification, but to make the explanation more complete. It almost goes without saying that this is an extremely unusual situation. I encountered only one that was even vaguely similar in 40 yrs. on the field and 7 as an observer. The pressure as you’re standing there talking with the crew, trying to get it right, is difficult to describe if you haven’t been there.  Without the luxury of video review, the crew on the field would have a difficult time determining when the Danville bench players entered the field, since their attention was understandably focused elsewhere. If they were unsure, the logical thing to do is give the benefit of the doubt to the offended team, in this case, Brebeuf. I’m not saying that’s what happened. It’s just a thought that occurred to me when I was trying to put myself in this Referee’s place.

In my observation, and not as an official, but it sure looked like the QB was down, so game over. If you said there was no whistle, then there probably should have been one. One of my issues with this is that the flag was not thrown until the Brebeuf coaches came out on the field and started pointing to the Danville bench. And wern't some Brebeuf players also on the field? So offsetting penalties? Then the officials huddled for several minutes before finally throwing a flag. By that time there should have been no call. Just a totally messy ending to what had been a fabulous finish to the game.

[WestfieldRocks]

3 minutes ago, vicvinegar said:

Just curious, could this have been a sideline warning? 

I had not considered this until I saw Day, the Ohio State coach, get flagged in today's game against Nebraska for a sideline warning after he got on the field and threw his headset after a call against his team that he didn't care for. Maybe the high school and college sideline warning rules are different?

[Bobref]

32 minutes ago, vicvinegar said:

Just curious, could this have been a sideline warning? 

No.

27 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

I had not considered this until I saw Day, the Ohio State coach, get flagged in today's game against Nebraska for a sideline warning after he got on the field and threw his headset after a call against his team that he didn't care for. Maybe the high school and college sideline warning rules are different?

I saw the same thing. And you no doubt also heard the officiating expert, Mike Pereira, explain that was an incorrect use of the sideline warning procedure.

[vicvinegar]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

No.

I saw the same thing. And you no doubt also heard the officiating expert, Mike Pereira, explain that was an incorrect use of the sideline warning procedure.

Why?

[Komets2727]

Not often that I say this as I always believe that players decide games, but this was as poorly an officiated game as I have even seen and that is saying a lot. The whole crew should not be allowed to work another game this year and serious consideration should be given if any of them should be allowed to officiate at the IHSSA level again. I am unbiased on whoever won this game and just looking at the continuous glaring mistakes throughout the game. It was flat out embarrassing for the profession of officials as there are many fine, dedicated, men and women who don the uniform everywhere. Just a travesty…

[Bobref]

10 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Not often that I say this as I always believe that players decide games, but this was as poorly an officiated game as I have even seen and that is saying a lot. The whole crew should not be allowed to work another game this year and serious consideration should be given if any of them should be allowed to officiate at the IHSSA level again. I am unbiased on whoever won this game and just looking at the continuous glaring mistakes throughout the game. It was flat out embarrassing for the profession of officials as there are many fine, dedicated, men and women who don the uniform everywhere. Just a travesty…

Given the shortage of officials, perhaps this could be used as a teaching moment, rather than passing a death sentence on a crew based on your observation of a single game. It is possible to improve, you know.

[Bobref]

39 minutes ago, vicvinegar said:

Why?

The sideline warning procedure is invoked in specific circumstances not present in this situation.

[Komets2727]

4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Given the shortage of officials, perhaps this could be used as a teaching moment, rather than passing a death sentence on a crew based on your observation of a single game. It is possible to improve, you know.

Don’t think I am alone in my observation, far from it. I fully expected you to support your fellow officials to the nth degree and you didn’t disappoint. Not everyone is meant to be an official. While you state a “death sentence” isn’t necessary for the officials, it was just that for all of the seniors for Danville who likely will not get to play football again. Again, my first statement was the crew should be done for the year. There has to be consequences for an epic fail by an entire crew. 

[Bobref]

22 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Don’t think I am alone in my observation, far from it. I fully expected you to support your fellow officials to the nth degree and you didn’t disappoint. Not everyone is meant to be an official. While you state a “death sentence” isn’t necessary for the officials, it was just that for all of the seniors for Danville who likely will not get to play football again. Again, my first statement was the crew should be done for the year. There has to be consequences for an epic fail by an entire crew. 

Very glad you’re not running the show.

By the way, we agree that this was the wrong outcome. Where we disagree is that you’re all about punishment, while I believe in rehabilitation.