End of Danville-Brebeuf game

[Muda69]

3 minutes ago, jets said:

In the grand scheme of life - of course. There was no fatality, someone has to win, and someone has to lose. That's how competition works.

However, pretty insensitive statement to make to imply it is "unimportant" or "doesn't matter." We have a whole site dedicated to HS football and I'm sure this moment "stings" pretty good for the Danville Football community. 

Oftentimes the truth is insensitive.   They got beat or screwed, whichever way you choose to view it.  Such is life.   What's important is to stop whining about it and just "get better".  That is one of the mantras of the GID, is it not?

 

5 minutes ago, jets said:

I particularly found that comical knowing what I do about Henderick's and surrounding counties and players

Pray tell.  Please elaborate.

 

[Stoner]

18 minutes ago, jets said:

In the grand scheme of life - of course. There was no fatality, someone has to win, and someone has to lose. That's how competition works.

However, pretty insensitive statement to make to imply it is "unimportant" or "doesn't matter." We have a whole site dedicated to HS football and I'm sure this moment "stings" pretty good for the Danville Football community. 

That aside - anyone catch the Danville coaches comments about we win/play with "Danville kids" ...i.e. a shot at the Parochial community. 

I particularly found that comical knowing what I do about Henderick's and surrounding counties and players

I understand the sentiment, but one of Comer’s mainstays lives a mile from me. And he’s sure not in Danville’s district.

[Muda69]

14 minutes ago, Stoner said:

I understand the sentiment, but one of Comer’s mainstays lives a mile from me. And he’s sure not in Danville’s district.

Open enrollment, working as intended.  Especially if you are an OMG! Athlete.

 

[Lemmy]

11 hours ago, JustRules said:

If there were appeals, I doubt they would win if what the crew ultimately ruled was illegal participation. That's a judgement call. It's no different than appealing a holding call or a pass interference call. If an organization were to allow appeals, they create a bad precedent if they allow appeals of judgement calls.

If the crew ruled illegal substitution or unsportsmanlike conduct (two different options also possible in this type of situation), that would be a different situation. As Bob explained, both are non-player fouls and treated as dead ball fouls. Thus they would have not extended the OT period and the game would have been over. If they ruled either of these and then allowed one more down, that would be a mis-application of the rule.

I'm not sure what they ruled because I was told the signal the referee gave was illegal forward pass. I assume that was because the referee wasn't sure of the correct signal. It obviously wasn't an illegal forward pass.

One possible conversation they had was if the actions of the Danville team was illegal substitution (IS) or illegal participation (IP). Both would involve players coming on the field while the ball was still live. The difference is if the bench players influence or participated in the play while the ball was live. They obviously didn't participate in the play, but if they influenced the play, then IP would be a valid judgement. They would need to rule that in order for Brebeuf to get another play. They had to make that decision based on they observed or remembered from the play. The referee would have no idea since they Danville players were behind him. The line of scrimmage of officials probably wouldn't have a strong opinion since they would be focused on the action around the ball. The umpire and back judge may have got a glimpse of the players coming on, but I'm not sure if they would be able to tell how close they get to the action.

I hope that helps those understand what may have happened. Again, I have no idea what they actually ruled, and i have no idea what they discussed. It's definitely an unfortunate ending to an otherwise great game.

I'm not a ref, but it seems to me discretion should have dictated no flag because it had no affect at all on the play.  Basically, everyone would agree if the offense runs a sweep right and the left tackle grabs some jersey on the left end, generally this is not going to be called.  If the defensive coach questioned the hold, he would likely be told "I could call holding on every play if I wanted to" by the ref, but that had no affect.  The same discretion should have applied here, there was no advantage gained by the kids accidentally coming onto the field early. 

[FastpacedO]

Couple of quotes I found intriguing:

“We feel like we should be playing,” Comer said. “Like I told our kids after the game, ‘You take a life lesson from it.’ But right now, I’m still struggling to figure out what that lesson is.”

I think he could perhaps relay to them:  life is not always fair, how you react to what happens to you is more important than what happens to you.

“Part of our complaint is that there was no flag on the field,” Comer said. “We go through the handshake line. At what point is the game over? The officials didn’t leave the field. We feel like they were persuaded to stay on the field and give the call that they did. That’s the part we’re most frustrated with. Everybody I’ve talked to has said, ‘There’s no way in hell you make that call.’”

I did not see a hand shake line. I saw a couple coaches walk all the way over to the Brebeuf side line and extend a hand to shake while the officials were huddled up. The game is over when the Officials make the game official. In this isntance they had not made it official and were huddled up for a discussion which is why the officials did not leave the field it was not deemed officially over yet. @Bobref am I incorrect in thinking that?

[Coach Nowlin]

I believe on the "X" clip that @Bobrefposted earlier there was indeed Brebeuff coaches (not HC) immediately in officials ear.

as seen here @FastpacedO   You can see 3 assistant coaches immediately trying to beg for the flag.   So I believe that is why the optics along with the judgement made has many in Danville and Football community nationwide ( I Have had friends from Texas and NY ask me about this very play).   

 

 

[tango]

31 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Couple of quotes I found intriguing:

“We feel like we should be playing,” Comer said. “Like I told our kids after the game, ‘You take a life lesson from it.’ But right now, I’m still struggling to figure out what that lesson is.”

I think he could perhaps relay to them:  life is not always fair, how you react to what happens to you is more important than what happens to you.

Exactly right

I would be very disappointed if our coach ever gave a quote like that

[RegionFBFan]

27 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

as seen here @FastpacedO   You can see 3 assistant coaches immediately trying to beg for the flag.   So I believe that is why the optics along with the judgement made has many in Danville and Football community nationwide ( I Have had friends from Texas and NY ask me about this very play).   

My first time seeing replay, agree with Danville community on optics not looking good with BJ coaches begging for flag while team is celebrating then getting the flag. Very poor look.

Does anyone know if this crew gets advanced to next round game?

[SoIndRef]

3 minutes ago, RegionFBFan said:

My first time seeing replay, agree with Danville community on optics not looking good with BJ coaches begging for flag while team is celebrating then getting the flag. Very poor look.

Does anyone know if this crew gets advanced to next round game?

They did not

[FastpacedO]

38 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I believe on the "X" clip that @Bobrefposted earlier there was indeed Brebeuff coaches (not HC) immediately in officials ear.

as seen here @FastpacedO   You can see 3 assistant coaches immediately trying to beg for the flag.   So I believe that is why the optics along with the judgement made has many in Danville and Football community nationwide ( I Have had friends from Texas and NY ask me about this very play).   

 

 

My issue is he stated they went through the hand shake line and asked when does the game end.

If you watch the broadcast yes there were coaches not in officials ear shot begging for a flag because Danville players were on the field. The only hand shaking was Danville's Head Coach on the Brebeuf sideline going to shake hands with Brebeuf coaches. There was no handshake line and the officials were huddled up. The officials had not ended the game and it seemed there was some jumping the gun all the way around.

Edited October 30, 2024 by FastpacedO

[FastpacedO]

11 minutes ago, RegionFBFan said:

My first time seeing replay, agree with Danville community on optics not looking good with BJ coaches begging for flag while team is celebrating then getting the flag. Very poor look.

Does anyone know if this crew gets advanced to next round game?

To be honest you can watch coaches begging for a flag on any play that doesn't result in a big play or TD on any given Friday night. I would bet @Bobref will see that all the time.

 

I already know @Coach Nowlin is a master at the begging for a flag with those flowing locks he has! Surely he will know I am kidding.

[Viktor]

On 10/27/2024 at 8:01 PM, PHJIrish said:

I can!  The officials had a bad night throughout the game.  I saw the same thing.  I guess the White Hat had no experience in that role.  Seems a tough spot to get that first game experience.  It was a tough game for both teams, imo.

 

[RegionFBFan]

Yes, very true. It was the begging, the celebration, then the delay in the flag being throw, and then a discussion amongst crew. All bad optics thus causing such vitriol from Danville community. I can’t blame them.

[Viktor]

I believe the announcers explained this on the tv coverage: it is apparently a new rule this year that when the runner goes out of bounds (but his forward progress is not stopped already), they stop the clock UNTIL the ball is positioned and ready for play, then the start the clock back up (ie. not waiting for the snap of the ball).

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

The game is over when the Officials make the game official. In this isntance they had not made it official and were huddled up for a discussion which is why the officials did not leave the field it was not deemed officially over yet. @Bobref am I incorrect in thinking that?

At the end of the game, the Referee holds up the football, signifying the period is over.

5 minutes ago, Viktor said:

I believe the announcers explained this on the tv coverage: it is apparently a new rule this year that when the runner goes out of bounds (but his forward progress is not stopped already), they stop the clock UNTIL the ball is positioned and ready for play, then the start the clock back up (ie. not waiting for the snap of the ball).

Maybe in college or the NFL, but not in high school.

[Viktor]

On 10/27/2024 at 8:01 PM, PHJIrish said:

I can!  The officials had a bad night throughout the game.  I saw the same thing.  I guess the White Hat had no experience in that role.  Seems a tough spot to get that first game experience.  It was a tough game for both teams, imo.

I believe the announcers explained this on the tv coverage: it is apparently a new rule this year that when the runner goes out of bounds (but his forward progress is not stopped already), they stop the clock UNTIL the ball is positioned and ready for play, then the start the clock back up (ie. not waiting for the snap of the ball).

[Viktor]

On 10/27/2024 at 9:50 PM, Titan32 said:

We see the lineman downfield call down here in Southwest Indiana ALL THE TIME.

Not sure why/how it happened, but when I watched this play later on the internet (I was at the game), it appears that for some reason one of the Brebeuf linemen went immediately downfield when the ball was snapped even though it was a pass play.

[Viktor]

On 10/27/2024 at 10:33 PM, Boiler Boog said:

Don’t see it a lot here. What I’m trying to say is it didn’t really effect a 43 yd pass play Brebeuf had but no one talks about that. I’m sure I could rewatch the game and find an instance of a Danville guy being downfield and not being called. There are so many 50/50 calls in any game. Brebeuf had plenty go against them, any single one of those calls not going against them probable leads to Brebeuf being able to run the clock out before Danville has a chance to score with a minute left. Yet all people talk about is the one call at the end of the game but they ignore other calls (or non calls) earlier in the game.

 

Go to 2 hrs 41 minutes and 21 seconds on the broadcast. Here is the link

https://www.ihsaatv.org/?B=1460710

Brebeuf receiver gets called with hold. Where the hold is, I have no clue. Terrible call. Yet no one talks about it. If the don’t call it who knows what effect it has on the game. 
 

All I’m saying is people seem to only fixate on the call at the end of the game and ignore equally bad calls that if not made, probably mean Brebeuf can run out the clock and win the game in regular time without having to deal with overtime.

 

(By the way, Boiler Boog, thanks for the link to the broadcast!) I believe this was the play on which the announcers said the call was due to it being run towards the Danville sideline, however I believe one of the receivers DID hold. Earlier in the game, however, I believe a long TD run was called back due to a hold which I thought was just an excellent downfield block by the guy who got flagged.

[Viktor]

On 10/28/2024 at 11:53 PM, Lysander said:

Personally, since I generally don’t have any particular love for either the Preppies or Danville (whatever their mascot might be….I, frankly, forget…”Six Gun Shooters”?) I’d personally be down with the IHSAA just cutting out that particular portion of the bracket and letting Roncalli take a week’s rest.
 

I’d consider it a perfect solution.  But then, that’s just me.

Brebeuf Braves

[Yuccaguy]

46 minutes ago, Viktor said:

I believe the announcers explained this on the tv coverage: it is apparently a new rule this year that when the runner goes out of bounds (but his forward progress is not stopped already), they stop the clock UNTIL the ball is positioned and ready for play, then the start the clock back up (ie. not waiting for the snap of the ball).

WHAT???   

I think that the best arbiters of rule interpretations are ALWAYS "the announcers"...   They have studied those pesky rules ad nauseum I bet.  

[Viktor]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

My issue is he stated they went through the hand shake line and asked when does the game end.

If you watch the broadcast yes there were coaches not in officials ear shot begging for a flag because Danville players were on the field. The only hand shaking was Danville's Head Coach on the Brebeuf sideline going to shake hands with Brebeuf coaches. There was no handshake line and the officials were huddled up. The officials had not ended the game and it seemed there was some jumping the gun all the way around.

I went to the game and recall both teams lined up on the 50, ready to proceed with the handshakes, but the handshakes never took place.

[JustRules]

35 minutes ago, Viktor said:

Not sure why/how it happened, but when I watched this play later on the internet (I was at the game), it appears that for some reason one of the Brebeuf linemen went immediately downfield when the ball was snapped even though it was a pass play.

If you are referring to one that brought back a TD near the end of regulation, that was a foul because the inside receiver was covered up by the wide guy. If he was supposed to be off then they were guilty of an illegal formation because he would have been the 5th in the backfield. The H dropped a flag back toward the LOS and then signaled to the R it was ineligible downfield. There must have been a brief discussion that resulted in the correct call of illegal touching when the R realized the covered receiver downfield was the one who caught the ball. Good job the crew on that play to get the right call. The yardage enforcement is the same, but illegal touching also caries a loss of down which they did.

[Viktor]

1. Not sure why Brebeuf had to re-kick the final PAT even though the penalty was apparently (?) on Danville.

2. Throughout  the night, the head official seemed to be talking into a mic and hitting buttons to turn it on and off(?). Not sure who he was communicating with or if he thought the crowd or TV audience could hear him, or if there were technical difficulties. (It was kinda frustrating as a fan cuz there were several conferences yet we never really seemed to know what was going on.)

3. Seemed like many (all?) of the refs had ear pieces. Is that something new? Were they communicating amongst themselves?

[JustRules]

4 hours ago, SPARKS said:

Late to this party, but my question is.....

I have read that the regular R had to be replaced, and the whitehat for the game was new at Friday whitehat.   I know that for the other 4 positions, the crew gets a replacement from any official that is OK'd for playoffs.   I remember the IHSAA had a list of available, playoff-ready officials.  Bobref, JustRules...do you think that there should be a list of playoff-ready, experienced whitehats whose crew either did not get a 1st round, are privateers (picking up games week-to-week), or one of the R's of the crews getting 2nd weekend games that did not work the 1st weekend?  Is this one of the few times that Meridian St should get involved and assign an R to the game?

 

When Bobby Cox was the football commissioner, the crew didn't work if the R couldn't work. Robert has been a little more flexible in that. I'm aware of several instances where the R was unavailable for whatever reason (i.e. injury or personal conflict), but the crew was able to replace them. I'm not aware of a crew had a game pulled or never assigned because the R wasn't available, but it's definitely possible.

It's my understanding the R in this case was an existing member of the crew. I have no idea how much R experience they had. The sub on the crew would have been replacing him in his normal position. It happens every week with multiple crews in the tournament. If they wanted to get another white hat to take his spot, they could have found one easily, but for some reason they chose to do it the way they did.

[Yuccaguy]

4 minutes ago, Viktor said:

1. Not sure why Brebeuf had to re-kick the final PAT even though the penalty was apparently (?) on Danville.

2. Throughout  the night, the head official seemed to be talking into a mic and hitting buttons to turn it on and off(?). Not sure who he was communicating with or if he thought the crowd or TV audience could hear him, or if there were technical difficulties. (It was kinda frustrating as a fan cuz there were several conferences yet we never really seemed to know what was going on.)

3. Seemed like many (all?) of the refs had ear pieces. Is that something new? Were they communicating amongst themselves?

1. Didn't the announcers let you know that in HS FB any accepted penalty (offensive or defensive) results in an untimed down in that situation?  

2. As an official, we don't care about you as a fan being "informed"....  If you want that, watch Network/Cable FB.  This is HS FB.

3. It is not new, perhaps you haven't focused on some crew's communication.  I can GUARANTEE you that the AC/Busco crew this Friday will have radios in their ears.   😀

Edited October 30, 2024 by Yuccaguy