Covenent Christian - Why Privates Never Belong in 1A Football

[Coach Nowlin]

https://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/covenant-christian-warriors-(indianapolis,in)/football/stats.htm

 

113.5  Tackles for Loss on the season.   Mercy 

54 Sacks, with 2 kids having 20 + sacks.  

1a Kicker with 34 touchbacks.  

 

[Gipper]

21 hours ago, DT said:

I enjoy watching all private schools win championships.  Especially enjoyed watching Evansville Memorial these last few years.  Have not seen them over the years and they were a great looking team iver the past few seasons.  great unis as well.  They won a 4A championship with a low 3A enrollment.  Thats what I like to see.  

Who would you rather watch on TV: D-I, or NAIA?

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Who would you rather watch on TV: D-I, or NAIA?

Certainly D1.  NAIA looks like high level high school

[Thor77]

32 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

https://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/covenant-christian-warriors-(indianapolis,in)/football/stats.htm

 

113.5  Tackles for Loss on the season.   Mercy 

54 Sacks, with 2 kids having 20 + sacks.  

1a Kicker with 34 touchbacks.  

 

South Adams has 116 tackles for loss. Only have 18.5 sacks, but most teams we face exclusively run the ball. 

[Muda69]

10 hours ago, Grandpa B said:

If you have another PP school that you think can win playing 2 classes up (which is what the 2.0 multiplier will drive), I am more that interested in that. 

Lafayette Central Catholic.  The Knights frequently hold their own, and more, in a Hoosier Conference filled with 3A schools.

 

[Grandpa B]

13 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Lafayette Central Catholic.  The Knights frequently hold their own, and more, in a Hoosier Conference filled with 3A schools.

 

I think you would agree that if LCC was in 3A they would be in the West Lafayette sectional.   In the past 4 years West Lafayette has beaten them 180 to 14.   180 to 14.  That includes last year when they won the state championship in 1A.  Got beat 50-0.   You consider that "holding their own"?  In the times that they moved up to 2A, I don't think they ever won a sectional.  So how can a school that can't win at 2A compete at 3A?   If the goal is to put them in 3A so that they would never win even a sectional, then I believe you that goal would be accomplished.   

[Muda69]

46 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

 You consider that "holding their own"? 

Yes.  Just "get better or get used to it".  Isn't that the mantra of the GID and p/p schools in general?

And what do you do on the flip side with schools like Frankfort,  a 4A school with realistically a small 3A/2A talent base?  Shouldn't they be able to play down in the 3A or 2A classification based on past performance?

 

[gonzoron]

13 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Shouldn't they be able to play down in the 3A or 2A classification based on past performance?

Absolutely not. Someone could give them a participation trophy though.

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by gonzoron

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Lafayette Central Catholic.  The Knights frequently hold their own, and more, in a Hoosier Conference filled with 3A schools.

 

I'd wager that Frankfort could beat Indy Shortridge and Gary West too.  I doubt that would suffice in your eyes as criteria for backing a belief that they should remain in 4A.  Against 3A competition, LCC is 8-12 over the last two SF cycles, four years, against 3A teams with six of those wins coming against Northwestern and Benton Central.

47 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

I think you would agree that if LCC was in 3A they would be in the West Lafayette sectional.   In the past 4 years West Lafayette has beaten them 180 to 14.   180 to 14.  That includes last year when they won the state championship in 1A.  Got beat 50-0.   You consider that "holding their own"?  In the times that they moved up to 2A, I don't think they ever won a sectional.  So how can a school that can't win at 2A compete at 3A?   If the goal is to put them in 3A so that they would never win even a sectional, then I believe you that goal would be accomplished.   

They won a regional in 2014, but lost the second game of the sectional in 2013. 

[Grandpa B]

6 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes.  Just "get better or get used to it".  Isn't that the mantra of the GID and p/p schools in general?

And what do you do on the flip side with schools like Frankfort,  a 4A school with realistically a small 3A/2A talent base?  Shouldn't they be able to play down in the 3A or 2A classification based on past performance?

 

I figured that would be your response.  We are miles apart when it comes to what we both believe is "fair".    The 2.0 multiplier will ensure no PP schools win sectionals let alone State Championships wiht the possible exception of Cathedral.   

I absolutley believe that schools should be able to play down based upon what a "Unsuccess Factor".  When I saw Attucks show up to play Roncalli in the Sectionals with 14 players, I immediately thought how wrong this is that they are having to play Roncalli.  (different story in basketball as Attucks has had much success in the past couple of year - last year beat Cathedral - yes Cathedral).  Team like your beloved Frankfurt (2 sectionals in the last 20 years), should be allowed to playdown.   If we can come up with a formula to move teams up, we should be able to have a formula to move teams down.   I think it is needed and would be a great idea and hope one day the IHSAA will implement it.  

[gonzoron]

11 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

Team like your beloved Frankfurt (2 sectionals in the last 20 years), should be allowed to playdown.

They already "play down". They don't play 1 team during their regular season that is in the same class they are. Every team on their schedule is in a lower class. 

[Starfire]

8 hours ago, Thor77 said:

South Adams has 116 tackles for loss. Only have 18.5 sacks, but most teams we face exclusively run the ball. 

And this is with the starters playing 2 quarters a game for almost every game this season, other maybe maybe 3-4 games 

[FastpacedO]

7 hours ago, Starfire said:

And this is with the starters playing 2 quarters a game for almost every game this season, other maybe maybe 3-4 games 

Looking at the scores from both South Adams and Covenant Christian, I would think both teams had starters only playing 2 quarters (and maybe a few plays in 3rd qtr) except maybe 3 or 4 games. Lutheran and Heritage Christian would be 2 games for CC I would think their starters likely played all 4 quarters for sure.

[Guest DT]

8 hours ago, Grandpa B said:

I figured that would be your response.  We are miles apart when it comes to what we both believe is "fair".    The 2.0 multiplier will ensure no PP schools win sectionals let alone State Championships wiht the possible exception of Cathedral.   

I absolutley believe that schools should be able to play down based upon what a "Unsuccess Factor".  When I saw Attucks show up to play Roncalli in the Sectionals with 14 players, I immediately thought how wrong this is that they are having to play Roncalli.  (different story in basketball as Attucks has had much success in the past couple of year - last year beat Cathedral - yes Cathedral).  Team like your beloved Frankfurt (2 sectionals in the last 20 years), should be allowed to playdown.   If we can come up with a formula to move teams up, we should be able to have a formula to move teams down.   I think it is needed and would be a great idea and hope one day the IHSAA will implement it.  

Attucks should contract.  No school should be allowed to play a varsity game with 14 players.  Its dangerous, especially against a high level team

We have previously proposed minimum roster size requirements by class, for the express purpose of maintaining competitive balance and avoiding serious injuries based on mismatches.

The minimum roster size for Class A would be 22

Several players from Bishop Noll were seriously injured in these types of mismatches over the past few seasons.  It impacts both PPs and publics.  

Edited November 25, 2020 by DT

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Attucks should contract.  No school should be allowed to play a varsity game with 14 players.  Its dangerous, especially against a high level team

We have previously proposed minimum roster size requirements by class, for the express purpose of maintaining competitive balance and avoiding serious injuries based on mismatches.

The minimum roster size for Class A would be 22

Several players from Bishop Noll were seriously injured in these types of mismatches over the past few seasons.  It impacts both PPs and publics.  

I would hate to be the coach of a team who lets his kids loose and some 135 pound linebacker on the other side breaks his neck and becomes a quadrapalegic

That Roncalli-Attucks matchup is where things like this happen.

 

[Muda69]

9 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Absolutely not. Someone could give them a participation trophy though.

Why not?  And this is an honest question.

You can mail that trophy to:

Frankfort High School

c/o Athletic Department

1 South Maish Rd, Frankfort, IN 46041

I'm sure it will put in a place of honor next to Frankfort's four state basketball championship trophies.

 

 

[Muda69]

9 hours ago, gonzoron said:

They already "play down". They don't play 1 team during their regular season that is in the same class they are. Every team on their schedule is in a lower class. 

Wrong.  Sagamore conference rival Lebanon is a true 4A school.  Didn't play in the regular season due to covid, but met in the first round of the sectional where Frankfort got blanked 29-0.

The last time the Hot Dogs defeated the Tigers during the regular season was 2007.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Muda69

[Muda69]

9 hours ago, Grandpa B said:

 If we can come up with a formula to move teams up, we should be able to have a formula to move teams down.   I think it is needed and would be a great idea and hope one day the IHSAA will implement it.  

Good.  Then we can throw the entire enrollment based classification system out the window, can't we?

 

[NPCougarNation]

10 hours ago, gonzoron said:

They already "play down". They don't play 1 team during their regular season that is in the same class they are. Every team on their schedule is in a lower class. 

I would say that the program is doing itself a disservice by not fidning a tougher conference to play in to get more competition.

[Gipper]

2 hours ago, DT said:

Attucks should contract.  No school should be allowed to play a varsity game with 14 players.  Its dangerous, especially against a high level team

We have previously proposed minimum roster size requirements by class, for the express purpose of maintaining competitive balance and avoiding serious injuries based on mismatches.

The minimum roster size for Class A would be 22

Several players from Bishop Noll were seriously injured in these types of mismatches over the past few seasons.  It impacts both PPs and publics.  

Ready for this?  I am in complete agreement.  Teams should dress a minimum of 40 players for each game.  If that can’t be met, forfeiture should apply.

[Coach_Hogan_Brother]

25 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Ready for this?  I am in complete agreement.  Teams should dress a minimum of 40 players for each game.  If that can’t be met, forfeiture should apply.

Headline:

“Covenant Christian forfeits state championship”

[Gipper]

1 minute ago, Coach_Hogan_Brother said:

Headline:

“Covenant Christian forfeits state championship”

Oops.  Sorry.  I just think it’s a safety issue: good luck!!!

[foxbat]

26 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Ready for this?  I am in complete agreement.  Teams should dress a minimum of 40 players for each game.  If that can’t be met, forfeiture should apply.

Covenant Christian and South Adams both dress less than 40 and have done fairly well this season.  Frontier's roster was only 25 this season and have started doing a nice job of rebuilding their program.  Matter of fact, most of 1A dresses less than 40.

[Gipper]

1 minute ago, foxbat said:

Covenant Christian and South Adams both dress less than 40 and have done fairly well this season.  Frontier's roster was only 25 this season and have started doing a nice job of rebuilding their program.  Matter of fact, most of 1A dresses less than 40.

I didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers and  will even admit South Newton needed to dress JV players to have a team.

[FarmerFran]

3 minutes ago, Gipper said:

I didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers and  will even admit South Newton needed to dress JV players to have a team.

Pioneer dressed right around 30 at semistate, but dressed as low as 26 I believe during the course of the season due to injury.