Jump to content
The Gridiron Digest

Indiana Catholic Football Needs a Governor to Regulate Out of Control Football Dominance


Guest DT
 Share

Recommended Posts

35 minutes ago, DT said:

Would you not consider the combined 67 state championships of Cathedral, Roncalli, Chatard, Luers, LCC, Dwenger and Ritter to be an example of "success?"

Of course.  But a couple things on that -- at least as regards this Alabama CBF vs. your proposal.

First, that CBF (as well as Illinois' policy, as well as Indiana's SF) is measured off recent success.  In other words, what a school did in the 1980s -- good, bad, or otherwise -- is irrelevant.  I don't know exactly how far back they look.  But I know that it's recent, because the court's opinion states as much.

Second, your proposal has no quantified success metric at all.  It's just:  if you're private or parochial, you go up a class...in addition to any additional bump you might get from the Success Factor.  So you're pointing to a list of 7 schools and the success they've had going back to the beginning of the tournament to justify a blanket bump on any PP.  But the policy that we know has actually passed the courts is not a "blanket bump" on any and all PP.  In fact, it only applies to 10% of Alabama's PPs.   And the reason is that they look at recent success to determine applicability.

15 minutes ago, DT said:

The SF/1 Bump combo would push Roncalli and Cathedral up to 5A with an opportunity to play their way up to 6A.  We all know that both schools are 6A level programs and given the direction of the game today, will likely remain there.  

What are you going to do if/when they dominate 6A, too?  Because they probably would.  Burn their schools down?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

What are you going to do if/when they dominate 6A, too?  Because they probably would.  Burn their schools down?

7A babyyyyy!!!

Really looking forward to the Class 84A one off state champion game between Cathedral and Roncalli in 2043.

Edited by Footballking16
  • Haha 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DT said:

What I am suggesting here is that Indiana act in a progressive manner and take the "next step" necessary to reign in out of control PP post season domination.

I believe it will strengthen the game over the long run, improve competitive balance, and possibly flush out some programs that dont need to be playing high school varsity football in the first place.  

 

I'm an Evansville Memorial booster.  We have 2 state football championships.  Our crosstown Catholic rival is Mater Dei.  They have 1.

Here's a list of public schools that, under your proposal, would get no automatic class bump despite having as many or more state championships than Memorial and Mater Dei combined:

Carmel - 9
Ben Davis - 9
Sheridan - 9
Warren Central - 9
Penn - 5
Hobart - 4
Jimtown - 4
Tri-West - 4
Franklin Central - 4
Carmel - 9
Ben Davis - 9
Sheridan - 9
Warren Central - 9
Penn - 5
Hobart - 4
Jimtown - 4
Tri-West - 4
Franklin Central - 4
Pioneer - 3
Western Boone - 3
New Palestine - 3

 

Reitz, another SIAC rival, has the same number of championships we have (2) and 1 more than Mater Dei has.  No bump.

Yeah, this makes sense.

Edited by MHSTigerFan
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Lol. If Cathedral and Roncalli are in the same tournament you can rest be assured they are in the same sectional and playing each other in the first round. Tale as old as time. Geographically, there isn't a school closer to Cathedral than Roncalli at the 5A level. 

Kind of like the Chatard-Brebeuf-Guerin Invitational in post-season 3A Sectional of Death used to be? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

I'm an Evansville Memorial booster.  We have 2 state football championships.  Our crosstown Catholic rival is Mater Dei.  They have 1.

Here's a list of public schools that, under your proposal, would get no automatic class bump despite having as many or more state championships than Memorial and Mater Dei combined:

Carmel - 9
Ben Davis - 9
Sheridan - 9
Warren Central - 9
Penn - 5
Hobart - 4
Jimtown - 4
Tri-West - 4
Franklin Central - 4
Carmel - 9
Ben Davis - 9
Sheridan - 9
Warren Central - 9
Penn - 5
Hobart - 4
Jimtown - 4
Tri-West - 4
Franklin Central - 4
Pioneer - 3
Western Boone - 3
New Palestine - 3

 

Reitz, another SIAC rival, has the same number of championships we have (2) and 1 more than Mater Dei has.  No bump.

Yeah, this makes sense.

Let's hope state championships aren't the measuring stick for any proposal.

Where is Tango....he would enjoy all this lawyer speak?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MHSTigerFan said:

What are you going to do if/when they dominate 6A, too?  Because they probably would.  Burn their schools down?

Cathedral did not dominate when thrown in with the biggest schools. In fact, quite the opposite. While they won Sectionals, they did not get out of Regional losing to Avon and Ben Davis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Let's hope state championships aren't the measuring stick for any proposal.

Where is Tango....he would enjoy all this lawyer speak?

Well, I only mentioned it because he cited the "67 combined state championships" as a barometer of success.  Yeah, there are all sorts of problems with that -- starting with the fact that it goes all the way back to 1973.

But, that said, his proposal doesn't have a success measuring stick of any kind.  The measuring stick is:  if you're private or parochial, you go up a class.

So, sticking with the SIAC, Mater Dei and their 1 state championship (from 20 years ago, no less).  Bump

Reitz and their 2 more recent state championships.  No bump.

Guerin hasn't ever won a Semi-State, let alone a state championship.  Bump.

Pioneer has won 5 Semi-States and 3 state championships.  No bump.

Traders Point Christian.  Never gotten out of Sectional.  Bump.

Western Boone has won 4 state championships, and 3 in a row.  No bump.

 

Edited by MHSTigerFan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Cathedral did not dominate when thrown in with the biggest schools. In fact, quite the opposite. While they won Sectionals, they did not get out of Regional losing to Avon and Ben Davis.

Given enough time there....I bet they would.

It's a cultural thing as much as anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Reading more through the opinion, the CBF bump only applied to 10% of the PP schools in Alabama - because it was based on success criteria.

And this theme was repeated throughout the opinion.  A rule untethered to success criteria, such as the one proposed by DT, would almost certainly run afoul of equal protection.

I could not disagree more. Anyone reading this decision would have to conclude that even such a blunt instrument as a class bump or multiplier would be constitutional. The problem is you are misreading the significance of the “animus” component. Animus directed toward private schools is perfectly legal, or at least, constitutional. It is animus toward a protected category — such as race or religion — that calls for “strict scrutiny” as opposed to the “rational basis” test. If the IHSAA enacted a 1 class bump only for Catholic schools, then we could talk. But a one class bump of all private schools, faith-based or not, requires only a rational (if clumsy) relationship to the identified problem to pass constitutional muster. 
 

By the way, I got the A* in my Constitutional Law class at IU. True, that was in 1975, but hey, it’s still the same Constitution. 😅😂🤣

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bobref said:

I could not disagree more. Anyone reading this decision would have to conclude that even such a blunt instrument as a class bump or multiplier would be constitutional. The problem is you are misreading the significance of the “animus” component. Animus directed toward private schools is perfectly legal, or at least, constitutional. It is animus toward a protected category — such as race or religion — that calls for “strict scrutiny” as opposed to the “rational basis” test. If the IHSAA enacted a 1 class bump only for Catholic schools, then we could talk. But a one class bump of all private schools, faith-based or not, requires only a rational (if clumsy) relationship to the identified problem to pass constitutional muster. 
 

By the way, I got the A* in my Constitutional Law class at IU. True, that was in 1975, but hey, it’s still the same Constitution. 😅😂🤣

But the judge wasn't discussing any hypothetical "bump" that had no relationship to success, much less ruling on one.  Why else would he point out that only 10% of Alabama PPs were subject to the CBF?  He references the recent success component numerous times throughout the opinion -- because the CBF had one.

DT's proposal does not.  It would hit all PPs, regardless of their level of success.

You're citing a ruling about an apple to declare the constitutionality of an orange.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Why else would he point out that only 10% of Alabama PPs were subject to the CBF?

How many factors did the decision cite that led to the conclusion that it did not violate equal protection? That was one. How many others were there? I’ll sit down and wait for an answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, DT said:

Not sure about that.  5A is pretty spread out in Indy metro and good chance IHSAA could keep the two apart in the first round.  

What a joke.  Just look at what the IHSAA (or the “stepped down” Tri-West AD if I recall correctly) did in Sectional 28.

It’s a given that Cathdral, Chatard and Roncalli will be lumped together In sectionals whenever and however possible.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

One has to wonder how much $$$ is going out the window for hourly rate in this thread right now.

TRUE but….it’s COVID.  

My better half has been working from home for 17 months as a pharma manager…..and she is supposed to generally meet people daily.

Heck, we’ve been in Florida 3 of the last 12 months.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Lysander said:

TRUE but….it’s COVID.  

My better half has been working from home for 17 months as a pharma manager…..and she is supposed to generally meet people daily.

Heck, we’ve been in Florida 3 of the last 12 months.

I've been at home about the same amount of time....can work from anywhere, but it feels a bit like groundhog day.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Lysander said:

What a joke.  Just look at what the IHSAA (or the “stepped down” Tri-West AD if I recall correctly) did in Sectional 28.

It’s a given that Cathdral, Chatard and Roncalli will be lumped together In sectionals whenever and however possible.

 

Also, 5A isn't pretty spread out throughout Indy Metro, just more feeble conjecture on DT's part. Cathedral is currently a sectional with both Terre Haute Schools nearly 100 miles away. Only way Roncalli and Cathedral wouldn't be in the same sectional is if Cathedral somehow went North although Dwenger being an auto bump would almost assuredly prevent that from happening. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I've been at home about the same amount of time....can work from anywhere, but it feels a bit like groundhog day.

Same here.  
 

Thank God my better half somehow tolerates me…..and doesn’t own a firearm.
 

 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest DT
4 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Lol. If Cathedral and Roncalli are in the same tournament you can rest be assured they are in the same sectional and playing each other in the first round. Tale as old as time. Geographically, there isn't a school closer to Cathedral than Roncalli at the 5A level. 

There is no IHSAA conspiracy against the PPs.  Hogwash

Truth be told, the IHSAA has allowed the PPs to make the post season football tournament their own little backyard sand box.  

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Same here.  
 

Thank God my better half somehow tolerates me…..and doesn’t own a firearm.
 

 

I've been home for 10 months. And I have no plans or reason to go anywhere again. Unless it's a day trip to see a drinking buddy.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest DT
1 minute ago, gonzoron said:

I've been home for 10 months. And I have no plans or reason to go anywhere again. Unless it's a day trip to see a drinking buddy.

 

Interesting.  I feel the same way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

I've been home for 10 months. And I have no plans or reason to go anywhere again. Unless it's a day trip to see a drinking buddy.

 

I could (and would) do the same  but my wife can’t.  She will, quite literally, drive around the city for at least 2 hours a day making phone calls from her car because she can’t stay at home. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...