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MIC & HCC realignment


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Ok....I'll be the guy to call out the elephant in the room.  Did the MIC just say....hey CG and Carmel....we hear you guys think you are too "culturally" uppity uppity to play with us?  Does this have racial and socioeconomic overtones....or at least perceived ones that the MIC perceives CG and Carmel have?

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2 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Ok....I'll be the guy to call out the elephant in the room.  Did the MIC just say....hey CG and Carmel....we hear you guys think you are too "culturally" uppity uppity to play with us?  Does this have racial and socioeconomic overtones....or at least perceived ones that the MIC perceives CG and Carmel have?

I could see that theory but it’s really about money, opportunities for their student athletes and competitiveness.

Carmel and Center Grove simply clean up in every sport.  Add in the fact that some MIC schools are struggling to field junior varsity and freshman teams in the country club sports and it’s a no-brainer.

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21 minutes ago, foxbat said:

So what does "culturally align" mean?  I'm hoping it's not a dog-whistle issue.

So the questions, from a purely football perspective, is "Where do Carmel and/or Center Grove land?" and "Who does the MIC court for replacement?"

So could the NCC go smaller-school and have Jeff and Harrison and perhaps Kokomo and maybe McCutcheon join with Carmel and Center Grove in a new league?  That would open up things in the NCC for the remaining schools and provide better competition for Jeff/Harrison.  Perhaps not so much for Carmel and Center Grove.  Guess it depends if HCC opens up for Carmel / Center Grove.

At this point the MIC just needs to focus on becoming the premier basketball conference in the state. Sans Cathedral, there isn't a feasible school the MIC could add that elevates their football profile. LC/LN one day potentially consolidating would make a good football program but there's no guarantee in that. I'd add Tech and Bloomington South if they strictly wanted to focus on being a basketball dominate conference, but even that seems out of the realm. 

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

At this point the MIC just needs to focus on becoming the premier basketball conference in the state. Sans Cathedral, there isn't a feasible school the MIC could add that elevates their football profile. LC/LN one day potentially consolidating would make a good football program but there's no guarantee in that. I'd add Tech and Bloomington South if they strictly wanted to focus on being a basketball dominate conference, but even that seems out of the realm. 

Agree but at this point, it’s about damage control.  They can’t elevate their profile but they can marginalize damage.

I still maintain Franklin Central and Avon makes the most sense.

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18 minutes ago, temptation said:

Agree but at this point, it’s about damage control.  They can’t elevate their profile but they can marginalize damage.

I still maintain Franklin Central and Avon makes the most sense.

Would Franklin Central and Avon voluntarily leave? Does the HCC vote them out to make room? Carmel to the HCC makes total sense given their geographical ties, CG not so much. 

Honestly think Center Grove is better served going independent, at least from a football stand point. Not sure if the current MIC teams would ever schedule Center Grove (and Carmel) again and vice versa, but I do think Center Grove would greatly benefit from being able to play a more regional football schedule. It would give them much more visibility if they were able to play the Cincinnati and Louisville power houses a couple times a year. 

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Just now, Irishman said:

I have a feeling the ripple effect this causes throughout Central Indiana is going to be significant. 

Could this be the most popular topic/thread on the GID in recent history?

I say yes.

I do not have nearly enough Central Indiana knowledge to give my thoughts, so I will just read and enjoy.

Just now, Lysander said:

Not to go all “DT” but are we possibly looking at a new conference with CG and Carmel joining select HCC teams resulting in a slimmed down MIC and HCC?  

Compelling...

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Would Franklin Central and Avon voluntarily leave? Does the HCC vote them out to make room? Carmel to the HCC makes total sense given their geographical ties, CG not so much. 

Honestly think Center Grove is better served going independent, at least from a football stand point. Not sure if the current MIC teams would ever schedule Center Grove (and Carmel) again and vice versa, but I do think Center Grove would greatly benefit from being able to play a more regional football schedule. It would give them much more visibility if they were able to play the Cincinnati and Louisville power houses a couple times a year. 

I think that FC and Avon have the ability to have more success in the long run if they go to the MIC.  Their socioeconomic profile would place them at the top of the MIC as opposed to the bottom of the HCC.  They aren’t winning much in anything currently.

I’m going to make a counter point here.  I think Carmel is the elephant in the room.  Though not quite as dominating, a Carmel move to the HCC means that current conference members will have an even steeper climb to the top of the top of the conference in most sports.

That’d be a tough sell for me.

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20 minutes ago, temptation said:

I think that FC and Avon have the ability to have more success in the long run if they go to the MIC.  Their socioeconomic profile would place them at the top of the MIC as opposed to the bottom of the HCC.  They aren’t winning much in anything currently.

I’m going to make a counter point here.  I think Carmel is the elephant in the room.  Though not quite as dominating, a Carmel move to the HCC means that current conference members will have an even steeper climb to the top of the top of the conference in most sports.

That’d be a tough sell for me.

There would have to be serious traction for CG and Carmel to already have open-ended invites to other conferences for the MIC to vote them out in the manner in which they did I would think. You just don't vote schools like Center Grove and Carmel out on a whim like that, hurting your conference profile. 

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

There would have to be serious traction for CG and Carmel to already have open-ended invites to other conferences for the MIC to vote them out in the manner in which they did I would think. You just don't vote schools like Center Grove and Carmel out on a whim like that, hurting your conference profile. 

Unless you are sick of losing to them in everything…

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

There would have to be serious traction for CG and Carmel to already have open-ended invites to other conferences for the MIC to vote them out in the manner in which they did I would think. You just don't vote schools like Center Grove and Carmel out on a whim like that, hurting your conference profile. 

They were leaving anyways.  MIC gets to send a strong message by making this move.  Gutsy.  

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2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Unless you are sick of losing to them in everything…

Does that really matter in state with an open football tourney?  Are the other sport tourneys all-in as well ... at least the big sports?  I could see it in a place like Texas where the top four teams in a district go to post-season and everyone else just goes home.

It would seem that having a CG and/or Carmel in your conference pushes you to be better.

It would seem to be a very short-sighted reasoning.

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3 minutes ago, HHF said:

They were leaving anyways.  MIC gets to send a strong message by making this move.  Gutsy.  

I'm not sure it's gutsy.  It's just the logical position to take in a dog-eat-dog world.  The idea in a situation like this is to "control the narrative."  Not everyone's going to buy the narrative, but it beats the alternative of "We wish the MIC all the success as we leave them behind ... bless their little hearts."

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22 minutes ago, temptation said:

Unless you are sick of losing to them in everything…

I mean maybe, but still don't understand why you'd kick out the two most visible programs in your conference. I get it if you're a school like Ben Davis and Warren Central who've had their thunder stolen by these two schools the last 5-10 years, but the MIC bottom feeders needs those two schools more than Center Grove in Carmel need them. 

Pike and North Central just went from being bad football programs in an elite football conference to bad football programs in just an ok conference. Perception means a lot. 

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I mean maybe, but still don't understand why you'd kick out the two most visible programs in your conference. I get it if you're a school like Ben Davis and Warren Central who've had their thunder stolen by these two schools the last 5-10 years, but the MIC bottom feeders needs those two schools more than Center Grove in Carmel need them. 

Pike and North Central just went from being bad football programs in an elite football conference to bad football programs in just an ok conference. Perception means a lot. 

You are taking football.  There are 19 other sports to consider…and in most of them the remaining 6 aren’t competitive with Carmel and CG.

Its tough to sell your student athletes and families on your program when you are getting trucked in every sport imaginable.

Even the greatest coaches cannot overcome the enrollment and socioeconomic advantages of Carmel year in and year out.

Once I saw Carmel and CG were going 1-2 in TRACK AND FIELD, I knew the baton (pun intended) had been passed.

 

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

I mean maybe, but still don't understand why you'd kick out the two most visible programs in your conference. I get it if you're a school like Ben Davis and Warren Central who've had their thunder stolen by these two schools the last 5-10 years, but the MIC bottom feeders needs those two schools more than Center Grove in Carmel need them. 

Pike and North Central just went from being bad football programs in an elite football conference to bad football programs in just an ok conference. Perception means a lot. 

Would agree.  For a while, folks were willing to say that schools like Pike and North Central had trouble growing "in the shadow" of schools like Carmel and Center Grove.  Once the shadow has been removed, those schools are going to have to snap to or end up in contraction threads.

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1 minute ago, foxbat said:

Would agree.  For a while, folks were willing to say that schools like Pike and North Central had trouble growing "in the shadow" of schools like Carmel and Center Grove.  Once the shadow has been removed, those schools are going to have to snap to or end up in contraction threads.

NC (all sports being considered) is the big winner here for the time being.

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2 minutes ago, temptation said:

You are taking football.  There are 19 other sports to consider…and in most of them the remaining 6 aren’t competitive with Carmel and CG.

Its tough to sell your student athletes and families on your program when you are getting trucked in every sport imaginable.

Even the greatest coaches cannot overcome the enrollment and socioeconomic advantages of Carmel year in and year out.

Once I saw Carmel and CG were going 1-2 in TRACK AND FIELD, I knew the baton (pun intended) had been passed.

 

Think “Country Club” sports. 
similar thing happened on a much smaller scale when Homestead and Carroll were voted out of the NHC. The conference title tally, while low in football, was insane in those other sports. 

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6 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’m not sure they are sending the strong message you believe they are.

Oh yes.  Im very sure of it.  Those people in The MIC office are clearly fed up with all the elitist BS they've had to listen to over the past several years.  This was a calculated, gutsy move by an entity that knows it has still has plenty of appeal and lots of options to grow.  

Carmel could be the odd man out, and the most likely to go independent due to its mammoth size.  

CGs back to back championship run is tarnished.

The MIC comes out looking like the spurned spouse, and they will get all the sympathy and the benefit of the doubt.  

CGs run will not last forever.  In fact, we probably just saw the peak.  

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