Bobref Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 The National Federation has a new rule that reads: “A state association may create instant-replay procedures that permit game or replay officials to use a replay monitor during state postseason contests to determine if a decision by the on-field game officials is incorrect.” Obviously, the IHSAA has not implemented any such procedures … yet. Should they? I understand there are going to be technological and financial concerns. But how about philosophically? As technology becomes better and cheaper, which it inevitably will, do objections fall away? Or does the fundamental difference between high school football vs. college and pro argue against using any form of replay at this level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDAlum82 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 IF the referees that will call the games are familiar enough with the system and how to properly use it, I am all for it. Otherwise it is liable to create more issues than resolve. Bottom line: get the call correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdets89 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Last year, each participant in all six class finals had some form of replay on the sideline. As a 1A school with no money, we found a way to make even the cheapest replay system deliver two camera angles, despite the challenges of delivering video over WAN in an NFL stadium. There are no significant obstacles to replay, other than deciding to deploy it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Bobref said: The National Federation has a new rule that reads: “A state association may create instant-replay procedures that permit game or replay officials to use a replay monitor during state postseason contests to determine if a decision by the on-field game officials is incorrect.” Obviously, the IHSAA has not implemented any such procedures … yet. Should they? I understand there are going to be technological and financial concerns. But how about philosophically? As technology becomes better and cheaper, which it inevitably will, do objections fall away? Or does the fundamental difference between high school football vs. college and pro argue against using any form of replay at this level? Would there be a standardization of required video capability/capacity at all sites? I'm not overly familiar with the required standards at the NFL and college levels, but there is a generic level of fan expectations from those such as x number of angles and close-up ability even if fans don't know what those specific requirements are. There are some online games that I've watched that the image quality looks like family vacations at the beach from the 60s. Others are much more defined and others beyond that have several angles/several cameras. If the IHSAA considers it, it would make sense to have a particular minimum standard and, perhaps limitations on the types of calls that could be reviewed. For example, things like number of players on the field, players on the line/off the line, etc. are probably always doable regardless of image quality/number of cameras, etc. whereas things like sideline catches might stay as "decision on the field" without review. Just curious ... who would foot the bill for the tech and the extra body in the booth? I'm assuming that the extra bodies would come from ref teams that did not have latter post-season duties? Edit: This is less of an issue if we are just talking the finals as the infrastructure's there at LOS. If this is expanded to post season in general, then my post above applies. Edited November 7, 2022 by foxbat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdets89 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, foxbat said: Just curious ... who would foot the bill for the tech and the extra body in the booth? I'm assuming that the extra bodies would come from ref teams that did not have latter post-season duties? Aren't there already observers from the zebra community in the booth for every game? Would it be a stretch to add replay to their duties? If you define what can be reviewed, surely this would be possible. As for tech, the only additional cost would be the equipment required to deliver the images already being captured in broadcast quality by at least four cameras to the sideline. Surely the cost of this spread over six games is would not be an obstacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Bobref said: The National Federation has a new rule that reads: “A state association may create instant-replay procedures that permit game or replay officials to use a replay monitor during state postseason contests to determine if a decision by the on-field game officials is incorrect.” Obviously, the IHSAA has not implemented any such procedures … yet. Should they? I understand there are going to be technological and financial concerns. But how about philosophically? As technology becomes better and cheaper, which it inevitably will, do objections fall away? Or does the fundamental difference between high school football vs. college and pro argue against using any form of replay at this level? I can legally carry a fully loaded ready to rock and roll AR-15/AK-47/ pick your favorite scary gun around downtown Indy on a shoulder sling. Just because I can doesn’t mean I should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, kdets89 said: Aren't there already observers from the zebra community in the booth for every game? Would it be a stretch to add replay to their duties? If you define what can be reviewed, surely this would be possible. As for tech, the only additional cost would be the equipment required to deliver the images already being captured in broadcast quality by at least four cameras to the sideline. Surely the cost of this spread over six games is would not be an obstacle. I agree for the finals. Was just wondering if it was only for finals, as per the thread title, or possibly extended to a bigger part of the post-season as per the National Federation's new rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdets89 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, foxbat said: I agree for the finals. Was just wondering if it was only for finals, as per the thread title, or possibly extended to a bigger part of the post-season as per the National Federation's new rule. My opinion would be different for all rounds prior to the finals, for all the reasons you bring up. Even though the IHSAA claims ownership of all tourney images, they're simply repackaging what previously existed at the sites. There's too much variability in image/network quality for it to reliable before the finals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdets89 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: I can legally carry a fully loaded ready to rock and roll AR-15/AK-47/ pick your favorite scary gun around downtown Indy on a shoulder sling. Just because I can doesn’t mean I should. Quite the comparison. If I was a Pioneer coach in the 2014 1A finals, I'd be in favor of replay for the championship game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 OK, poor comparison however convince me changing the officiating for one game is a good idea? Why is the ship more important than the SS? What about all those alleged state finals we see in the early rounds of the tournament? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 49 minutes ago, kdets89 said: Aren't there already observers from the zebra community in the booth for every game? If you are talking about the state finals, that is certainly true. For the semistates, it’s likely true. But not at Regionals. There are 24 Regionals. Not enough observers to have one at every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdets89 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: OK, poor comparison however convince me changing the officiating for one game is a good idea? Why is the ship more important than the SS? What about all those alleged state finals we see in the early rounds of the tournament? In that case, why play the championship game at LOS? How much expense could be avoided by extending the home/away criteria beyond the SS game and just providing the away team with a travel stipend? Why hire a third party to broadcast the games? Just repackage the stream already in place (Indiana SRN, Berne Witness, Summit City Sports, etc.), or simply don't broadcast it if there isn't a stream in place. The championship game is different. The incremental step from no replay to replay requires little cost. This isn't like the weeks after the 2014 1A championship when the GID debated the possibility of additional crew members on the field requiring a significant change in mechanics. We're talking about using an existing broadcast stream, and allowing an official to overrule the crew on the field when warranted. Progress over perfection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Baker Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 52 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: I can legally carry a fully loaded ready to rock and roll AR-15/AK-47/ pick your favorite scary gun around downtown Indy on a shoulder sling. Just because I can doesn’t mean I should. So which one do you have? AR or AK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said: So which one do you have? AR or AK? Yes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Baker Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: Yes Awesome I have a Mini-14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 40 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: Yes OT: One of those knockoff AR Bushmasters or the real thing? ... I have a Colt that I've had for almost 30 years now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said: I can legally carry a fully loaded ready to rock and roll AR-15/AK-47/ pick your favorite scary gun around downtown Indy on a shoulder sling. Just because I can doesn’t mean I should. you absolutely should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 No. It is just a game. Played by children. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Muda69 said: No. It is just a game. Played by children. Another guy who is as consistent as the sun coming up in the East. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bobref said: Another guy who is as consistent as the sun coming up in the East. 🤣 “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds…” - Ralph Waldo Emerson 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDB26 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 I am philosophically opposed to replay at all levels of sport. Practically, I could be in favor of a world in which replay reviews were conducted in some arbitrarily-short period–say thirty seconds or less–and the officials only had full speed footage to review. The mistake should be so blatantly obvious–which is to say that everyone should know something is wrong–that allowing it to stand would run counter to the idea of fair play. I'm almost certain that I'd still be opposed to this proposed format for reviews if they were to be implemented in high school sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jets Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Absolutely not - you don't want to open up that can of worms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 56 minutes ago, jets said: Absolutely not - you don't want to open up that can of worms. I'm inclined to agree with this but I also remember the catch-that-wasn't in that Pioneer-North Vermillion game. It's a hard call because if you implement it for the finals inevitably people will start to clamor for it in every game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, scarab527 said: I'm inclined to agree with this but I also remember the catch-that-wasn't in that Pioneer-North Vermillion game. It's a hard call because if you implement it for the finals inevitably people will start to clamor for it in every game. Aaahh, the “slippery slope…” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bobref said: Aaahh, the “slippery slope…” In this case it is justified imo. When you have people screeching for replays in blowouts in August don't say I didn't warn you lol. In all seriousness, at the very least, you'll have people that want replays for all playoff games. And if you allow for the finals I don't see the argument in not allowing for the entire tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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