Temp’s Top 25 (Week 4)

[temptation]

1. Ben Davis
2. Brownsburg
3. Center Grove
4. East Central
5. Hamilton Southeastern
6. Fishers
7. Fort Wayne Snider
8. Crown Point
9. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
10. Bishop Chatard
11. Cathedral 
12. Lawrence North
13. Westfield
14. Zionsville
15. Carmel
16. Warren Central
17. Bloomington North
18. Bloomington South
19. Penn
20. Kokomo
21. Valparaiso 
22. Lawrence Central
23. Noblesville
24. Franklin Central
25. Evansville Reitz

[Dave007]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

1. Ben Davis
2. Brownsburg
3. Center Grove
4. East Central
5. Hamilton Southeastern
6. Fishers
7. Fort Wayne Snider
8. Crown Point
9. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
10. Bishop Chatard
11. Cathedral 
12. Lawrence North
13. Westfield
14. Zionsville
15. Carmel
16. Warren Central
17. Bloomington North
18. Bloomington South
19. Penn
20. Kokomo
21. Valparaiso 
22. Lawrence Central
23. Noblesville
24. Franklin Central
25. Evansville Reitz

I would think HSE win on the road @ Fishers in Mudsocks game would lock them in at #4.  Maybe you struggled with that one?  Other than that you are spot-on

[turf tripper]

I believe east central should be top 3 the rest of year. Possibly at number 2 when the season is said and done.

[Komets2727]

Not understanding how Fishers is ahead of Snider based on how the games have been played

[temptation]

2 hours ago, Dave007 said:

I would think HSE win on the road @ Fishers in Mudsocks game would lock them in at #4.  Maybe you struggled with that one?  Other than that you are spot-on

Helluva win.  Just looking more at the transitive property of Moeller against 3 of Indiana’s top teams.

Hell, even considered East Central at #3.

HSE will have ample opportunity to continue to climb.  East Central likely won’t.

2 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Not understanding how Fishers is ahead of Snider based on how the games have been played

Tougher schedule, no shame in a one point home loss to HSE.

[Muda69]

Go Wildkats.

 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Go Wildkats.

 

Squeaked one out against Leo after falling behind two touchdowns. Leo was playing catchup all night against New Haven. East Noble's no chump. North will be fun to watch. 

[BTF]

Center Grove destroys Trinity. Trinity destroys Carmel. Carmel barely escapes a Homestead team that got obliterated by Noblesville. Greyhounds are overrated at 15, might not even be Top 25. 

[temptation]

9 hours ago, BTF said:

Center Grove destroys Trinity. Trinity destroys Carmel. Carmel barely escapes a Homestead team that got obliterated by Noblesville. Greyhounds are overrated at 15, might not even be Top 25. 

This week against LN tells me much more.  I think you may be right.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

This week against LN tells me much more.  I think you may be right.

I just don't know anything about Cristian Brothers or Detroit King. I do feel like Indiana has closed the gap with Ohio and has probably surpassed Michigan, Kentucky, and Illinois. 

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, BTF said:

I just don't know anything about Cristian Brothers or Detroit King. I do feel like Indiana has closed the gap with Ohio and has probably surpassed Michigan, Kentucky, and Illinois. 

Christian Brothers is pretty loaded…King is rebuilding and a year away based on what I’ve seen.  Far from an expert in other states though.

Belleville (MI) is probably better than anyone Indiana has but not by much if I had to guess.

I know very little about Illinois.

All things considered, I think I’m taking Carmel to beat LN Friday which just adds more confusion, lol.

Edited September 10, 2023 by temptation

[dazed and confused]

10 hours ago, BTF said:

Center Grove destroys Trinity. Trinity destroys Carmel. Carmel barely escapes a Homestead team that got obliterated by Noblesville. Greyhounds are overrated at 15, might not even be Top 25. 

Exactly... simply switch Carmel and Noblesville on this poll and we're good !

Edited September 10, 2023 by dazed and confused

[BTF]

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

All things considered, I think I’m taking Carmel to beat LN Friday which just adds more confusion, lol.

I've got to roll with Lawrence North in this one by a touchdown.

Things are kind of confusing after Ben Davis, Center Grove, and Brownsburg. East Central has earned their spot at #4..............for now. I've got Snider, HSE, Fishers, Crown Point, and a few others in a blender after that. 

[scarab527]

52 minutes ago, BTF said:

I just don't know anything about Cristian Brothers or Detroit King. I do feel like Indiana has closed the gap with Ohio and has probably surpassed Michigan, Kentucky, and Illinois. 

I don’t follow Michigan enough to speak on it, but I watched Mount Carmel and East St Louis play a couple weeks ago and I gotta say I’m not sure anyone in Indiana this year could beat either of them. Would love to see some MIC/HCC vs Catholic League Blue matchups in the near future. 

[Boilernation]

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

I've got to roll with Lawrence North in this one by a touchdown.

Things are kind of confusing after Ben Davis, Center Grove, and Brownsburg. East Central has earned their spot at #4..............for now. I've got Snider, HSE, Fishers, Crown Point, and a few others in a blender after that. 

I just hate the transitive property too much to consider it. Moeller just isn't clicking on all cylinders or they're struggling to find something that works. Maybe they found it against Center Grove or just found it for one game. Who knows. I would go:
 

1. Ben Davis (giving them credit for the way they played against IMG)
2. Center Grove
3. Brownsburg
4. HSE
5. Fishers
6. East Central
7. Fort Wayne Snider
8. Fort Wayne Carroll
9. Biship Chatard
10. Cathedral

Notes:

• Crown Point looks really good. Top notch coaching staff. Good size. Multiple D1 recruits along with a D1 recruit at QB who is very mobile and can throw the ball around the field. I just don't trust them yet. They won't receive a true 6A level test until Regionals if they can get past Lafayette Jeff this year. Jeff shouldn't be much of a problem if the RB is out all year.
• The Mudscock game was phenomenal. I would love to see a rematch in Sectionals. Obviously it didn't work but I really liked Fishers' going for the 2 point conversion after HSE was clearly offsides on the XP attempt that was blocked. The workhorse Khobie Martin had been killing HSE running the ball and 2 yards seemed like a guarantee. Though there was nothing he could do. The big boy from HSE who smothered Martin in the backfield wasn't even blocked. 

[Boilernation]

13 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

I don’t follow Michigan enough to speak on it, but I watched Mount Carmel and East St Louis play a couple weeks ago and I gotta say I’m not sure anyone in Indiana this year could beat either of them. Would love to see some MIC/HCC vs Catholic League Blue matchups in the near future. 

Agreed on the matchups with the Catholic League Blue, DuPage Valley, West Suburan Silver and Southwest Suburban Blue . The problem with the Catholic League Blue though is they're notorious for backing out of home and home deals when it's their turn to travel. Loyola Academy did it to Cincinnati St. Xavier this year. But, the Catholic League Blue and some of the Western/SW Suburban teams are very good for the same reasons Cathedral and HCC teams are good. It's tough to schedule them though as they start a week later and a lot of the teams just schedule OOC against teams from other Chicagoland conferences. 

I've often wondered how East St. Louis can be so good at HS football when the town itself is a disaster and looks like Gary with neighborhoods completely abandoned. But, I've noticed once their players hit colleget their hometown is typically listed as St. Louis. I think they even got into trouble recently with the amount of "recruits" they were bringing in from St. Louis.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Boilernation

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Jeff shouldn't be much of a problem if the RB is out all year.

Valpo proved last year that one guy can make a difference in whether you're barely a top ten team in your respective class to being, arguably, one of the top two or three teams in your class. 

[temptation]

56 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

I don’t follow Michigan enough to speak on it, but I watched Mount Carmel and East St Louis play a couple weeks ago and I gotta say I’m not sure anyone in Indiana this year could beat either of them. Would love to see some MIC/HCC vs Catholic League Blue matchups in the near future. 

I need @whiteshoes to chime in here.

[temptation]

59 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

I just hate the transitive property too much to consider it. Moeller just isn't clicking on all cylinders or they're struggling to find something that works. Maybe they found it against Center Grove or just found it for one game. Who knows. I would go:
 

1. Ben Davis (giving them credit for the way they played against IMG)
2. Center Grove
3. Brownsburg
4. HSE
5. Fishers
6. East Central
7. Fort Wayne Snider
8. Fort Wayne Carroll
9. Biship Chatard
10. Cathedral

Notes:

• Crown Point looks really good. Top notch coaching staff. Good size. Multiple D1 recruits along with a D1 recruit at QB who is very mobile and can throw the ball around the field. I just don't trust them yet. They won't receive a true 6A level test until Regionals if they can get past Lafayette Jeff this year. Jeff shouldn't be much of a problem if the RB is out all year.
• The Mudscock game was phenomenal. I would love to see a rematch in Sectionals. Obviously it didn't work but I really liked Fishers' going for the 2 point conversion after HSE was clearly offsides on the XP attempt that was blocked. The workhorse Khobie Martin had been killing HSE running the ball and 2 yards seemed like a guarantee. Though there was nothing he could do. The big boy from HSE who smothered Martin in the backfield wasn't even blocked. 

Yeah, transitive is all we have to compete those top four teams unfortunately.  A BD/CG or BD/Brownsburg regular season contest would be electric in 2023…

Good point on Moeller.  These are high school kids all around so it’s really an exercise in futility.  Did see that Moeller gave the ball to Jordan Marshall 35 times Friday night!  That’s unheard of in modern day football.  Selfishly excited about him in Ann Arbor next fall.

I want to believe in Crown Point so badly as last year northeast Indiana (Carroll) broke through and northwest Indiana joining the 6A party would be awesome.   I am a firm believer that statewide irepresentation in all classes is what makes high school football intriguing.  Merrillville sorta ruined big boy football in the region for me a couple of years ago when they came down to Indy and got throttled by Chatard.

Mudsock is quietly becoming the highest profile rivalry game in the state annually in my opinion.  It’s what Ben Davis/Warren used to be.

Edited September 10, 2023 by temptation

[scarab527]

7 hours ago, Boilernation said:

Agreed on the matchups with the Catholic League Blue, DuPage Valley, West Suburan Silver and Southwest Suburban Blue . The problem with the Catholic League Blue though is they're notorious for backing out of home and home deals when it's their turn to travel. Loyola Academy did it to Cincinnati St. Xavier this year. But, the Catholic League Blue and some of the Western/SW Suburban teams are very good for the same reasons Cathedral and HCC teams are good. It's tough to schedule them though as they start a week later and a lot of the teams just schedule OOC against teams from other Chicagoland conferences. 

I've often wondered how East St. Louis can be so good at HS football when the town itself is a disaster and looks like Gary with neighborhoods completely abandoned. But, I've noticed once their players hit colleget their hometown is typically listed as St. Louis. I think they even got into trouble recently with the amount of "recruits" they were bringing in from St. Louis.

I’ve heard the same thing. I believe Mt Carmel used to play Warren in the late 80s/early 90s. A guy can dream. 

East St Louis recruits the entire city of St Louis. They’ve gotten in trouble a few times over the years for doing so. 
 

I’m not sold on CP. Didn’t look good at all first half vs LC. If they beat up on Valpo like they’ve been doing everyone else then I’ll finally buy in. As of now I don’t think they’ll make it out of the Regional. 
 

Don’t think we can glean anything from the Moeller matchups other than EC will not be touched in 4A this year.

I think this Top 25 is really accurate other than the Bloomington schools being on it. North beating South was more reflective of South being frauds than North actually being good. Think teams 19-25 all beat the Bloomington schools by 3+ TDs. Conference Indiana is not good.

[whiteshoes]

20 hours ago, temptation said:

I need @whiteshoes to chime in here.

In my opinion, the states are on a very similar tier nationally.   I currently have three from each state ranked in my Top 100.    A breakdown of the those three, which in my opinion, are the best three teams in each state reveals that neither state appears to have a team that will finish in the top fifty at the end of the season.   Indiana has Ben Davis, Center Grove and Brownsburg.   I was at Ben Davis Friday night for the IMG game and must say I thought the final score was not indicative of how the game was played.    The two pick-six touchdowns were large, especially the David Stone 90-yard return.   I had some friends who did not get seated until the second quarter and asked how Ben Davis was down that much as they seemed to control the game at that point.   Also saw Center Grove play in Canton and must state that they were simply dominated by St. Edward.   However, those two teams, IMG and St. Edwards are top ten teams nationally.   Brownsburg is a tough call although the win over Cathedral was a statement.   Illinois also has three teams ranked, Chicago Mt. Carmel, East St. Louis, and Wilmette Loyola Academy.   Mt. Carmel is their best.   East St. Louis is the only one that plays out-of-state competition.  But since Mt. Carmel and East St. Louis played earlier this year with Mt. Carmel winning by three, it is safe to assume that they are pretty close in ability.  East St. Louis beat a Baltimore St. Frances that is on a suicide mission, but was blown out this past weekend by Atascocita, a Texas team that I have in that's state top fifteen.   Loyola Academy beat a Michigan team earlier this season and plays Mt. Carmel at the end of the season, so should get a pretty good feel for them at that time.  In a three-game series, it would be tough to call a winner in any of three possible matchups.   I have a solution to offer, why don't we get the six teams together next season at LOS to find out.    

[roaringthunderdlr]

Could be biased here, but I feel you have to rank Plainfield here. Their defense looks very good, and while I do feel that Snider and Valpo would probably beat them, I think Plainfield is the 3rd best team in 5A. The Perry team that played them close is not the Perry team of years past: they would be a contender in 5A if they were in that division.

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, roaringthunderdlr said:

Could be biased here, but I feel you have to rank Plainfield here. Their defense looks very good, and while I do feel that Snider and Valpo would probably beat them, I think Plainfield is the 3rd best team in 5A. The Perry team that played them close is not the Perry team of years past: they would be a contender in 5A if they were in that division.

Plainfield would be at about #28 or #29. Not quite in the Top 25 yet.

[roaringthunderdlr]

2 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Plainfield would be at about #28 or #29. Not quite in the Top 25 yet.

Fair.

[temptation]

2 hours ago, roaringthunderdlr said:

Could be biased here, but I feel you have to rank Plainfield here. Their defense looks very good, and while I do feel that Snider and Valpo would probably beat them, I think Plainfield is the 3rd best team in 5A. The Perry team that played them close is not the Perry team of years past: they would be a contender in 5A if they were in that division.

Had em ranked last week and they got bumped.  I have them at 32.

Edited September 11, 2023 by temptation