The p/p hegemony continues unabated

[JQWL]

2 hours ago, Just a dad said:

Additionally the State of Indiana pays a little over $10k per public school student per year (your tax dollars). A school accepting the voucher is only paid $7k. This starts the accepting school off in a $3k hole per student (they then make this up with the additional tuition) and benefits the State by the same amount. A P/P of 800 kids starts with a deficit of $2.4M.

The IHSAA is a business (google “IHSAA salaries”) that works in conjunction with the State of Indiana. All of these discussions about separating P/P from public would likely cause the P/P schools to leave the IHSAA and form their own organization. This would be a not insignificant hit to the IHSAA’s bottom line. Do you think the IHSAA wants to see their $150k salaries be reduced?

Also, there might be a few families that then decide to send their kid to the public school (if they are chasing a ring) which would cause the State’s expenses to increase. 

This is a symbiotic relationship that benefits the parties that make the money. As George Carlin said “It’s a big club and you ain’t in it!”

Aren't both of these supplied by 'Your tax dollars"? Mine and yours. Unless private school parents pay taxes into a different government fund.

What would happen if all the publics left to form their own organization? Which would reduce the salary of IHSAA more?

[tango]

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Any?  I don't think 2 would have pushed us to 4A.

I don't think a multiplier based on kids traveling in from outside a feeder zone would impact us much either. To my knowledge, in the last 5-6 years we've had 2 kids who lived in Gibson County, but St. James could be considered a feeder school as it is part of the Evansville diocese. Our most famous St. James alum is none other than HC John Hurley.

[FastpacedO]

38 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

It's a travesty the state subsidizes any $$ via vouchers.

And why is it a travesty?

[First_Backer_Inside]

I just want someone to tell me how p/p's, if there is no unfair advantage, continue to dominate the classes 1A-3A. That's all I want. And don't tell me they don't because since the SF there have been 33 state title games in those three classes. p/p's have won 18. They make up 10% or somewhere around that of the teams in those three classes. If there isn't an advantage, how do those numbers make sense. I don't want to hear they have a great weight lifting program. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its coaching. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its the youth program. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its a combination of the three. Some public schools have that. So what is it? I wanna hear a private guy explain it to me. You public guys don't win enough state championships, I want someone that knows football to speak on the matter.

Also don't tell me it's the same public schools winning because it isn't. Of the remaining 15 state championships, 12 different public schools won those.

[cloudofdust]

39 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

It's a travesty the state subsidizes any $$ via vouchers.

Throw in the fact that the vouchers aren't beneficial to anyone in a rural setting and/or not within reasonable driving distance of a school that would accept them.

Even if you had the desire and funds for a P/P education, it's not feasible if the commute is absurd.

[First_Backer_Inside]

2 minutes ago, cloudofdust said:

Throw in the fact that the vouchers aren't beneficial to anyone in a rural setting and/or not within reasonable driving distance of a school that would accept them.

Even if you had the desire and funds for a P/P education, it's not feasible if the commute is absurd.

And yet, some will still do it for that Catholic education

[tango]

3 minutes ago, cloudofdust said:

Throw in the fact that the vouchers aren't beneficial to anyone in a rural setting and/or not within reasonable driving distance of a school that would accept them.

Even if you had the desire and funds for a P/P education, it's not feasible if the commute is absurd.

The stated rationale for the voucher was to give parents who live in districts with poorly performing public schools the financial means to choose an alternative school. Obviously, in rural areas where there is no alternative school the voucher is not going to be of any benefit. 

Personally, I think having a choice is a good thing, but the income qualification standards need to be lowered from their present levels. 

[PDB26]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:10 AM, JQWL said:

6A-12.5% of sectionals were won by privates. 0% of regionals, semi-states, state were won by privates.

4A-12.5% of sectionals were won by privates. 0% of regionals, semi-states, state were won by privates.

3A-12.5% of sectionals were won by privates. 25% of regionals were won by privates, 50% of semi-states were won by privates, 100% of state championships were won by privates.

2A-25% of sectionals were won by privates. 50% of regionals were won by privates, 50% of semi-states were won by privates, 100% of state championships were won by privates.

1A-37.5% of sectionals were won by privates, 25% of regionals were won by privates, 50% of semi-states were won by privates 100% of state championships were won by privates.

State wide:

12.5% of all sectionals won by privates, 16.7% of all regionals won by privates, 33.3% of all semi-states won by privates,, 50% of all state championships won by privates.

Private Schools make up 7% of all football schools.

These numbers would probably be a little higher if the officials in the North Posey/Mater Dei sectional semi-final could count to 12 on the final play.

No dog in this fight. I think members on both sides of this debate make some good points but, I'm curious, do you have/know the percentage of schools in each class that are p/p?

[Bobref]

3 hours ago, Just a dad said:

Additionally the State of Indiana pays a little over $10k per public school student per year (your tax dollars). A school accepting the voucher is only paid $7k.

 

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

It's a travesty the state subsidizes any $$ via vouchers.

A travesty? Sounds like for every kid the State uses vouchers on, Mr. Taxpayer’s burden is lessened. You ought to be championing the use of vouchers. Or you can look at it this way: if vouchers were eliminated, every kid who goes to a public school who would have gone to a p/p under the voucher program increases the tax burden.

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

And therein lies the issue: an undeniable, ridiculously homogenous student population that in itself should completely disqualify these institutions from being classified on that measurement alone.

Unless the determinative characteristic is Catholic faith, the ridiculously homogenous standard probably applies to most school districts, don't you think?

[Titan32]

14 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

Unless the determinative characteristic is Catholic faith, the ridiculously homogenous standard probably applies to most school districts, don't you think?

If you can't see the difference walking the halls of even the most homogeneous publics in comparison to any P/P....we can't even debate.

18 minutes ago, Bobref said:

 

A travesty? Sounds like for every kid the State uses vouchers on, Mr. Taxpayer’s burden is lessened. You ought to be championing the use of vouchers. Or you can look at it this way: if vouchers were eliminated, every kid who goes to a public school who would have gone to a p/p under the voucher program increases the tax burden.

Oh the money is a good thing...taking it anywhere isn't.  I'm actually a Republican city councilman...go figure LOL.

[JQWL]

26 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

No dog in this fight. I think members on both sides of this debate make some good points but, I'm curious, do you have/know the percentage of schools in each class that are p/p?

6A: 3.1% (Cathedral)

5A: 0%

4A: 9.4% (Memorial, Brebeuf, Roncalli, Culver Academy, Dwenger, SB St. Joe's)

3A: 6.3% (Guerin, Chatard, Mish. Marian, FW Concordia)

2A: 12.9% (Hammond Noll, Andrean, LCC, Luers, Mater Dei, Indy Scecina, Heritage Christian, Ritter)

1A: 6.9% (Park Tudor, Providence, Covenant, Lutheran) 

[Bobref]

6 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Oh the money is a good thing.

And we haven’t even discusses the subject of capital improvements in public school facilities … and how it also adds to the local tac burden.

[Tippy]

24 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

Unless the determinative characteristic is Catholic faith, the ridiculously homogenous standard probably applies to most school districts, don't you think?

I know one public school that has a homogenous student population

[jets]

50 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

I just want someone to tell me how p/p's, if there is no unfair advantage, continue to dominate the classes 1A-3A. That's all I want. And don't tell me they don't because since the SF there have been 33 state title games in those three classes. p/p's have won 18. They make up 10% or somewhere around that of the teams in those three classes. If there isn't an advantage, how do those numbers make sense. I don't want to hear they have a great weight lifting program. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its coaching. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its the youth program. Public schools have that. Don't tell me its a combination of the three. Some public schools have that. So what is it? I wanna hear a private guy explain it to me. You public guys don't win enough state championships, I want someone that knows football to speak on the matter.

Also don't tell me it's the same public schools winning because it isn't. Of the remaining 15 state championships, 12 different public schools won those.

The answer you seek is OBVIOUS - but since I'm a public school representative I guess I don't qualify to answer lol...

[Titan32]

Just now, Bobref said:

And we haven’t even discusses the subject of capital improvements in public school facilities … and how it also adds to the local tac burden.

A few years ago we did a Bond for turf and some improvements (approximately $1,000,000), my memory isn't the best but I believe the property tax burden for the average tax payer was around two dollars (obviously hit our farmers a little harder).  Additionally as assessed values continued to increase the bond amount diminishes organically so to speak.

[foxbat]

4 minutes ago, JQWL said:

6A: 3.1% (Cathedral)

5A: 0%

4A: 9.4% (Memorial, Brebeuf, Roncalli, Culver Academy, Dwenger, SB St. Joe's)

3A: 6.3% (Guerin, Chatard, Mish. Marian, FW Concordia)

2A: 12.9% (Hammond Noll, Andrean, LCC, Luers, Mater Dei, Indy Scecina, Heritage Christian, Ritter)

1A: 6.9% (Park Tudor, Providence, Covenant, Lutheran) 

There's also Greenwood Christian and FW Blackhawk in 1A now.

Where do the charters fit in?  There's Bowman, Christel House, and a couple others out there.

[Muda69]

8 minutes ago, Tippy said:

I know one public school that has a homogenous student population

And that would be?

 

[First_Backer_Inside]

9 minutes ago, jets said:

The answer you seek is OBVIOUS - but since I'm a public school representative I guess I don't qualify to answer lol...

You would be correct on that as well

[FastpacedO]

36 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

No dog in this fight. I think members on both sides of this debate make some good points but, I'm curious, do you have/know the percentage of schools in each class that are p/p?

Not sure if I left any out

Andrean (2A)

Brebeuf Jesuit (4A)

Covenant Christian (1A)

Culver Academy (4A)

Ev. Mater Dei (2A)

Ev. Memorial (4A)

F.W. Blackhawk (1A)

F.W. Concordia (3A)

F.W. Bishop Dwenger (4A)

F.W. Bishop Luers (2A)

Greenwood Christian (not listed)

Guerin Catholic (3A)

Hammond Noll (2A)

Heritage Christian (2A)

Cathedral (6A)

Bishop Chatard (3A)

Lutheran (1A)

Cardinal Ritter (2A)

Roncalli (4A)

Scecina Memorial (2A)

Lafayette Central Catholic (2A)

Mishawaka Marian (3A)

Park Tudor (1A)

Providence (1A)

S.B. St. Joseph (4A)

[JQWL]

10 minutes ago, foxbat said:

There's also Greenwood Christian and FW Blackhawk in 1A now.

Where do the charters fit in?  There's Bowman, Christel House, and a couple others out there.

They weren't included because neither participated in the tournament, so wouldn't factor into the percentages for how many private schools won sectionals/regionals/semi-states/state championships.

[Titan32]

6 minutes ago, Tippy said:

I know one public school that has a homogenous student population

Homogeneity also applies to the ability or willingness to participate in anything extracurricular.

[cloudofdust]

45 minutes ago, Bobref said:

And we haven’t even discusses the subject of capital improvements in public school facilities … and how it also adds to the local tac burden.

The great thing about these improvements is that they are, more often than not, open to anyone that wants to enroll, regardless of beliefs, aptitude and/or wealth. The choice is yours!

[Muda69]

40 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Not sure if I left any out

Andrean (2A)

Brebeuf Jesuit (4A)

Covenant Christian (1A)

Culver Academy (4A)

Ev. Mater Dei (2A)

Ev. Memorial (4A)

F.W. Blackhawk (1A)

F.W. Concordia (3A)

F.W. Bishop Dwenger (4A)

F.W. Bishop Luers (2A)

Greenwood Christian (not listed)

Guerin Catholic (3A)

Hammond Noll (2A)

Heritage Christian (2A)

Cathedral (6A)

Bishop Chatard (3A)

Lutheran (1A)

Cardinal Ritter (2A)

Roncalli (4A)

Scecina Memorial (2A)

Lafayette Central Catholic (2A)

Mishawaka Marian (3A)

Park Tudor (1A)

Providence (1A)

S.B. St. Joseph (4A)

A new p/p has joined the fray:  

 

[BendNotBreak]

1 hour ago, JQWL said:

6A: 3.1% (Cathedral)

5A: 0%

4A: 9.4% (Memorial, Brebeuf, Roncalli, Culver Academy, Dwenger, SB St. Joe's)

3A: 6.3% (Guerin, Chatard, Mish. Marian, FW Concordia)

2A: 12.9% (Hammond Noll, Andrean, LCC, Luers, Mater Dei, Indy Scecina, Heritage Christian, Ritter)

1A: 6.9% (Park Tudor, Providence, Covenant, Lutheran) 

With Luthren replacing Luers... depending on the next alignment... 2A North looks like Andrean vrs everyone else... hmmm