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WEBO 2018-2020 and Ev Mater Dei 2021-2022 are prime examples why 2 years, hard cut offs are ridiculous implementations of the SF.

You are completely right. They get grouped into it because they are a private school that won four straight state championships around the time of determining the success factor. I guess I group them in with the rest because of what LCC also was three or four years after the SF. If the SF doesn't happen in 2012, LCC wins 7 straight state titles, and then we are definitely grouping them with the other schools mentioned previously. Instead they got bumped up and still managed to have success in 2A only losing to the 2A state runner up and the 2A state champion the next year before going back down and winning another state championship. So they might not have had the success the other schools did previous to the SF, but they were starting to become a problem for 1A.

Of course it can be - but my point in my original post is that during these 11X11 "competitions" - someone most always takes it over the edge.

A lot of programs practice this way everyday. Both H.S. and college. So yes, it can be played that way.

Not to hijack this thread - but the title of it reminded me that we are almost to my "favorite" (SARCASM) part of the football season - the PLAY TO THUD/QUICK WHISTLE portion of the summer with these 11X11 scrimmages or whatever you want to call them Some annoyances to try and avoid for you new coaches - or advice for coaches that just don't get it: 1. This is NOT the Super Bowl 2. Your actions (Coaches) a lot of times will "fuel" the problems that will arise in the scrimmage. (Hooting/hollering, chest-bumping, etc...) 3. Football is already a combative and emotional sport, don't egg it on by inappropriate actions - AND, if you have a player taking it over the edge, remove him/her until they understand no trophies are handed out in June/July 4. As you can probably tell, I DESPISE these things cause I don't really think football can be played at THUD level...someone (either an RB lowering his shoulder) or a safety running full speed downhill will start it...then the next play someone else has to get it back, and on and on. - That said, I know they are not going away - so here is to hoping everyone stays healthy and understands the purpose of these things.

Appreciate that! 😆 You can all leave us out of this... 😆 We have been in 3A going on 3 years... We will more than likely be back to 2A in the fall of 2024.

Pioneer saw LOS three times in three years, and four in five, before being bumped as well. The last three visits were: lost the first, then the new cycle came, then won two back-to-back. Matter of fact, if you look at their time before going up, you realize there may need to be something beyond just a two-year window and simple cutoffs. 2013 - Sectional champ 2014 - State runner-up 2015 - Sectional champ 2016 - State runner-up 2017 - State champ 2018 - State champ It's not Sheridan and LCC four-peat visits to LOS, but it's definitely close in the neighborhood ... about a couple of doors down.

For the record...any SF discussion I particpate in is supposed to begin with DON'T FORGET ABOUT WEBO!!! 🤪 My issue with 1A is you could very well end up with a yo-yo situation of P/Ps moving up and down "taking turns" in 1A. Lutheran, LCC, CC... Shrinking 1A down to 32 would bump some of these schools up to 2A. I don't think its unrealistic to move any other P/P up into the 33-?? 2A.

Um...the same advantages that every p/p has over their public school counterparts. Controlled enrollment, socioeconomic factors, parental support - "clearinghouse issues" as I've read somewhere else on this thread (I like to call it the "hallway test). Do we really need to state them every time this argument gets brought up??

296 students, 25 schools bigger than them playing football in 1A in the 22-23 and 23-24 football classification on IHSAA.org

Let's be fairly realistic about this ... and this is the main reason that I'm against an automatic bump and, instead, all for a PERFORMANCE-based bump. Folks often lump LCC into the "dominant" school programs of the IHSAA for all time. But looking at the numbers at the time of SF policy consideration, and if you are including LCC as a reason for SF, then SF's reason for existing is flawed because LCC was, prior to the SF implementation and prior to their 4-peat run in 2009-2012, which ended in being part of the inaugural class of SF, a team that looks like lots of other public 1A schools in terms of their PERFORMANCE to that point . Prior to their 4-peat run in 2009-2012, LCC the following post-season record ... starting in 1976: 1976 - State champion 1989 - Sectional champion 1999 - State champion 2005 - Sectional champion That's it! Two state championships, a decade and a half apart and two sectional championships ... every other season they left with nothing; including eight of those 33 seasons being bounced in the first game of sectionals. The only thing that was close to being a power run was the fact that it took only six years after winning the state championship in 1999 to finally get out of sectionals again in 2005 ... then again, in three of those six seasons they were bounced by two different teams, in the first game of sectionals, so I'm not sure that's a real power run. Incidentally, go back and look at how many DIFFERENT teams ended LCC's seasons in that timeframe. It's not like it was just Pioneer. In addition, it was Sheridan, Westfield, Frontier, South Decatur, Clinton Central, North Miami, Caston, North White, and Seeger; all public schools that ended LCC's season. By the way, just for a couple of interesting comparisons, Clinton Central, who was one of those teams that ended LCC's season three times and all three times causing LCC to exit sectionals in Game 1, had: 1997 - Sectional Championship 2000 - Sectional Championship 2002 - Sectional Championship While Sheridan had: 1976: Sectional Championship 1980: State Championship 1981: Sectional Championship 1983: Regional Championship 1984: State Championship 1985: Sectional Championship 1987: State Championship 1988: State Championship 1990: Sectional Championship 1992: State Championship 1994: Semi-State Championship 1998: State Championship 2004: Sectional Championship 2005: State Championship 2006: State Championship 2007: State Championship 2008: Semi-State Championship And Pioneer had: 1997 - State champion 2001 - Regional champion 2002 - Regional champion 2006 - Sectional champion 2008 - Sectional champion While Fountain Central had: 1978 - Semi-State champion 1983 - State champion 1996 - Sectional champion 1998 - Sectional champion 2004 - Sectional champion 2006 - Sectional champion And North White 1994 - State champion 1998 - Semi-State champion 2000 - Regional champion And, lastly as another data point set, Seeger: 1977 - Sectional champion 1995 - Sectional champion 1999 - Sectional champion 2002 - Sectional champion 2003 - Semi-State champion 2004 - State champion There's no way that anyone can sanely convince me that LCC's post-season records, prior to their 4-peat run when SF was being considered, would be even in the mix as a data point for making the SF argument other than because they were P/P. It wasn't until LCC thoroughly thrashed Fountain Central 52-0 in 2009 and then a year later 31-6 that anyone started taking notice and lumping LCC in with the Chatards and Cathedrals of the world. Realistically, LCC's records to that point were no more spectacular than Seeger's, Pioneer's, North White's, Fountain Central's, and, of course, not Sheridan's. With the 4-peat, LCC shot into IHSAA "legendary" status, but at the commencement of SF consideration, they looked no different than plenty of other public counterparts in their "dominance" moniker. If LCC was in the discussion driving SF, then it was pretty much 1) based on the 2009-2010 seasons ... so two data points ... which isn't a great driving force for policy, 2) ignoring all other data points of all other teams prior to 2009, or 3) based on the P/P categorization. In reality, none of these SHOULD be true. Lumping LCC in with some of the other P/Ps mentioned, ignores the data that was present at the time of the decisions and also generally tends to distort the analysis. We can do a "lookback" a decade after the fact that LCC is in the SF discussion "post implementation," but by the data at the time, there's no honest way that someone could argue that, prior to the 4-peat season run, which started right around the time that SF discussions were peaking, that LCC could have been a driving factor, in football, for SF in the same bucket as Chatard/Cathedral unless we are willing to admit that it wasn't even really about whether the teams were dominant or even winning.

No. I will never agree that every p/p has advantages over all similarly sized public schools - because it just isn't true. I ask again - what are the advantages that EDS, WC and Rivet have over Tecumseh, Wood Memorial and NE Dubois? To be honest, the only 1A p/p I'm aware of that actually plays football is Lutheran, who has demonstrated lots of success and yes, has advantages over most 1A publics.

I would reiterate, I think that should only happen if we shrink 1A to smallest 32.

Considering there are only a handful of schools currently being SF'ed in football, the other sports are probably relatively similar - a few in any given cycle. Me too. I'm okay with no p/p in 1A for football, but not other sports like basketball, baseball, etc.

Please explain their advantages. Day School has an enrollment of 44, Washington Catholic 74 and Rivet 68. Ev. Christian is just recently eligible for IHSAA tournament play, but EDS, WC and Rivet have been eligible for a long, long time and have had little success in any sport. In boys basketball, EDS had Evansville's career leading scorer (twice actually) and won 1 sectional each time. They have zero advantages over Tecumseh, Wood Memorial, Northeast Dubois, etc. The problem with an automatic bump is while some p/p schools can punch above their weight in many sports (eg. Memorial and Mater Dei in SW IN), there are as many, if not more schools that can barely land one in their own weight.

Maybe he "identifies" as white.......

Just like seeding the sectionals- it really is NOT that hard. Just bump the P/P up one class and be done with it. They have built-in advantages over Public schools and anyone who denies that is just delusional.

The issue with long drives isn't fans or Varsity Football on Friday nights.....its kids spending 2.5 hours in a bus on a school night to play a JV Tennis Match and all the other sports that don't exclusively play on Friday night. Commuting for football doesn't bother me at all......but go talk to the baseball coach that has to play a double header 80 minutes away and then teach the next day. That burns out coaches and their families very quickly

Too bad Merrillville refuses to play us.