If I am wrong please correct me

[Plymouthfan91]

As I read through this topic, I wonder if that play was the factor that allowed Westfield to win?  If it was does CG have any discourse?  Besides the 2018 Plymouth vs. Warsaw game this goes as one of the biggest missed calls I have ever seen.  Should these officials get a reprimand for missing a call this easily seen?  I wouldn't want to see them at one of our games.

[Bobref]

12 minutes ago, Plymouthfan91 said:

As I read through this topic, I wonder if that play was the factor that allowed Westfield to win?  If it was does CG have any discourse?  Besides the 2018 Plymouth vs. Warsaw game this goes as one of the biggest missed calls I have ever seen.  Should these officials get a reprimand for missing a call this easily seen?  I wouldn't want to see them at one of our games.

Don’t know if it was the case here, but I just want to point out that there are times when something that’s “this easily seen” on TV or video stream is not so easy to see on the field. It’s all about angles. A sideline camera shows a much different angle on this type of play than the back judge has.

These officials have already seen the game video. I can assure you that they have already addressed the question of how, from a mechanics viewpoint, they can get a better look at plays like this in the future.

And there’s not going to be any reprimand or other discipline. Nor should there be.

[Footballking16]

26 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Don’t know if it was the case here, but I just want to point out that there are times when something that’s “this easily seen” on TV or video stream is not so easy to see on the field. It’s all about angles. A sideline camera shows a much different angle on this type of play than the back judge has.

These officials have already seen the game video. I can assure you that they have already addressed the question of how, from a mechanics viewpoint, they can get a better look at plays like this in the future.

And there’s not going to be any reprimand or other discipline. Nor should there be.

But has anyone confirmed that the ruling on the field was a "muff" due to the belief the ball hit the punt returner's leg/foot up the field around the 15 yard line rather than a misapplication of the the rule when Westfield touched the ball trying to prevent a touchback that ultimately hit a Center Grove player and subsequently ruled a fumble recovery at the goal line? 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

But has anyone confirmed that the ruling on the field was a "muff" due to the belief the ball hit the punt returner's leg/foot up the field around the 15 yard line rather than a misapplication of the the rule when Westfield touched the ball trying to prevent a touchback that ultimately hit a Center Grove player and subsequently ruled a fumble recovery at the goal line? 

I spoke with the crew chief, so yes, that’s what B thought. There was no misapplication of the rule. It was an error in judgment.

[PHJIrish]

Not only am I a Lamey fan, I'm a Lamey friend.  His talents were wasted with slow moving football.  He was a natural born hockey announcer and earned the name Hockey Bob while he was the voice of the Indianapolis Racers of the WHA.

[crimsonace1]

55 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

Not only am I a Lamey fan, I'm a Lamey friend.  His talents were wasted with slow moving football.  He was a natural born hockey announcer and earned the name Hockey Bob while he was the voice of the Indianapolis Racers of the WHA.

Bob and I have crossed paths a few times. I wish I had the opportunity to know him better, as he was a major inspiration to me. It is an honor to follow in his footsteps and broadcast pro hockey in Indy, which I've done for the last six seasons. He was an amazing hockey announcer, and the one thing he brought to the booth that carried over to football was passion. 

He did have a tendency to be pretty hard on the officials ... but I remember that one game rather well because I knew the NFL rule (and it was a reminder to *know* some of the obscure rules when you're on the air so you can explain to the listeners when they happen). That's also why I tend to poke around the officiating forum, and if we have something weird happen in a game, I'll often PM @JustRules or @Bobref and get a clarification so I know for the future.

We had a play last year where a player tried to step OOB on a kickoff and then down the ball inbounds ... because he'd seen it done in the NFL (which, at least in the past, was ruled a kickoff OOB because it was first touched by a player who was OOB and the ball was seen as an extension of the player), but in NFHS, the player but not the ball was ruled OOB, and thus the receiving team got it at the spot of the touching - which was, IIRC, inside its 5. We were on top of that on the broadcast and had the chance to explain the difference between the NFL and NFHS rules. 

[Trojanmp52]

4 hours ago, Plymouthfan91 said:

As I read through this topic, I wonder if that play was the factor that allowed Westfield to win?  If it was does CG have any discourse?  Besides the 2018 Plymouth vs. Warsaw game this goes as one of the biggest missed calls I have ever seen.  Should these officials get a reprimand for missing a call this easily seen?  I wouldn't want to see them at one of our games.

I would say it could have been a factor, but not the only factor in the game Westfield kids played a great game and pulled off a huge trick play.  Cg kids made few mistakes that also cost them. My thought is if it was a bad call a very bad call I can life with that.  They are human and that is part of the game.  Also I am sure in the past also it will happen again in the future that CG will be on the other side of a bad call.  That is just the way it is.   Now if the crew did not the rule that is whole different thing.

Edited August 26, 2024 by Trojanmp52

[Bobref]

15 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

My thought is if it was a bad call a very bad call I can life with that.  They are human and that is part of the game.  Also I am sure in the past also it will happen again in the future that CG will be on the other side of a bad call.  That is just the way it is.

@Trojanmp52 = rational fan = endangered species

[PHJIrish]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

@Trojanmp52 = rational fan = endangered species

IMO, that kind of attitude is why officiating will neve get any better.  It seems they are subject to a different mindset.  Players get penalized when they do something wrong, but officials never get the kind of publicity they deserve   And I abhor homers, and there aren't as many as there used to be, but they're still a few around

Nothing personal, just my own opinion!

[Bobref]

11 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

officials never get the kind of publicity they deserve

What kind of publicity do they deserve? Should their names and home addresses be published? Perhaps they should have to write a letter of apology “to whom it may concern.” Man, you think it’s hard to get sufficient numbers of officials now. SMH

[Slobberknocker]

I am trying to understand the result of the play had the official not ruled initial touch by the receiving team.  

In this case first touch would be by the kicking after the ball broke the plane of the goal line and being batted back resulting in being touch by the receiving team.

I would think that it should have resulted in touchback because I think in high school as soon as the ball breaks the plan of goal the play is over.

Or should it have been placed at the 0ne yard line where it was touched the receiving player after being batted by kicking player.

Or someplace else?

[Coach Dowell]

Two points if it is touched by the Punt Team First.  Punt Return may pick it up and return it. It is a free play for the return team.  Meaning if the run it back 98 yards and fumble at the two, Return team would  keep possession way back at the one.   Return team gets the ball at "First Touch by the Punt Team or the result of the  Return/Play"

Next,  HS during punts it is  the ball.  As a member of the punt team  I can run down , stand in the end zone, and keep the ball out with my hands as long as the ball does not break the plane of the goal line.

On kickoffs its the goal line, Returner steps on goal line, plays is dead touch back.

[Coach Dowell]

I needed to make sure as I have been out of the college game a few years.  It is that way on Sat too.  I can stand in the End zone as long as I keep the ball from breaking the plane on a punt.

Not sure about Sunday, never coached in the NFL but if I did , I would know the rules!

[JustRules]

20 minutes ago, Coach Dowell said:

I needed to make sure as I have been out of the college game a few years.  It is that way on Sat too.  I can stand in the End zone as long as I keep the ball from breaking the plane on a punt.

Not sure about Sunday, never coached in the NFL but if I did , I would know the rules!

Correct on that point for NCAA. The difference though is the ball would remain live in NCAA if it crossed the plane or landed in the end zone if it has been touched by a receiving team player prior. In both NCAA and NFHS it's where the ball is. In the NFL, it's where the feet are or were. In NCAA if the kicking team member batted it back to the field of play from the end zone, the ball remains live, but you do have a spot of illegal touching so the receiving team could still have the option of a touchback at the end of the down.

[JustRules]

31 minutes ago, Coach Dowell said:

Two points if it is touched by the Punt Team First.  Punt Return may pick it up and return it. It is a free play for the return team.  Meaning if the run it back 98 yards and fumble at the two, Return team would  keep possession way back at the one.   Return team gets the ball at "First Touch by the Punt Team or the result of the  Return/Play"

Next,  HS during punts it is  the ball.  As a member of the punt team  I can run down , stand in the end zone, and keep the ball out with my hands as long as the ball does not break the plane of the goal line.

On kickoffs its the goal line, Returner steps on goal line, plays is dead touch back.

Pretty good summary of the rule. R does lose the right to take the spot of first touching if they commit a foul after the first touching or any penalty during the down by them is accepted. Free kicks (kickoffs) are the same as scrimmage kicks in this regard so the same rules apply. It's where teh ball is not where the player is.

[JustRules]

4 hours ago, Slobberknocker said:

I am trying to understand the result of the play had the official not ruled initial touch by the receiving team.  

In this case first touch would be by the kicking after the ball broke the plane of the goal line and being batted back resulting in being touch by the receiving team.

I would think that it should have resulted in a touchback because I think in high school as soon as the ball breaks the plane of goal the play is over.

Or should it have been placed at the 0ne yard line where it was touched the receiving player after being batted by kicking player.

Or someplace else?

Correct. If the ball broke the goal line plane at any point, it would be a dead ball and ruled a touch back. If he kept it from breaking the plane, then it would be the receiving team's ball at the spot of first touching or where it became dead. The receiving team will take the better spot. Let's say he batted it back at the one and the kicking team downed it at the 5 (also technically a spot of first touching), the receiving team would take it at the 5.

[Impartial_Observer]

I’m just going to say it, if a TB had been called, no one would have cared…….just sayin……..

[Bash Riprock]

21 hours ago, Plymouthfan91 said:

As I read through this topic, I wonder if that play was the factor that allowed Westfield to win?  If it was does CG have any discourse?  Besides the 2018 Plymouth vs. Warsaw game this goes as one of the biggest missed calls I have ever seen.  Should these officials get a reprimand for missing a call this easily seen?  I wouldn't want to see them at one of our games.

Sure it was a factor....not the only factor, but one nonetheless...the call gave Westfield a free score with about a half minute remaining before halftime.  Westfield carries momentum into the lockroom and they won the game by 6 points.  Huge impacting call.

That being said, it happens....humans are involved and mistakes will be made by all parties in a football game...mainly players and coaches, but officials are human as well.  Hopefully, teams do not put themselves in a position where one incorrect call is the sole difference in the game.  I am not saying it was here, but the call definitely had significant impact.

Edited August 27, 2024 by Bash Riprock

[PHJIrish]

On 8/26/2024 at 10:59 PM, Bobref said:

What kind of publicity do they deserve? Should their names and home addresses be published? Perhaps they should have to write a letter of apology “to whom it may concern.” Man, you think it’s hard to get sufficient numbers of officials now. SMH

Bob, I was trying to defend Bob Lamey.  I for one enjoyed him calling out officials when they clearly messed up.  I also was thinking about Joe West and Angel Hernandez, among others, that played with their own set of rules for years without much criticism from announcers or their superiors.  I happen to be a friend of Bob, well I used to be anyway, while he was the voice of the Indianapolis Racers.

[DumfriesYMCA]

I’m not reading any of this. 
 

however

 

with a title like this I believe I know how this has gone.

[Trojanmp52]

23 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I’m not reading any of this. 
 

however

 

with a title like this I believe I know how this has gone.

You should read.  it has been very informative, also I was not wrong on the rule rule just that official misssed the call

on a second note I have heard the ishaa sent CG and I am sorry note for how bad the crew was during that game.

Edited August 31, 2024 by Trojanmp52

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

how bad the crew was during that game.

A note about the missed call on the punt play, perhaps. But this, almost certainly not. For one thing, that would mean someone at the IHSAA who knows Officiating would have to watch the entire game video. Not going to happen.

[Trojanmp52]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

A note about the missed call on the punt play, perhaps. But this, almost certainly not. For one thing, that would mean someone at the IHSAA who knows Officiating would have to watch the entire game video. Not going to happen.

Understandable 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Understandable 

Speaking of which, is there a link, or can someone send me a file, that’s the video clip of just that play? Nice one to use for teaching purposes. It may be better than the clip I can get off Hudl.