FastpacedO Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 11 hours ago, DT said: Last year, we recommended contraction for the Hammond Bishop Noll program DT are you informing the rest of the GID of something? Multiple Personalities? Or do you own a car from the Suburban Auto Group? https://youtu.be/Rx6WB5YJia8 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 The obsession with this is weird 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 The way I see it, no one is forcing these kids to play, they do so on their own volition. Unfortunately, they don’t always get the desired result. That can and will change over time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Why penalize a program for a losing streak? Look at Northwestern University. For a few years, the Wildcats didn’t win a single game. But with a change in coaching, they made it to Rose Bowl and are still regarded as pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 14 hours ago, Gipper said: W-L is insignificant... So no coach has ever been fired at the high school level due to their W-L record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So no coach has ever been fired at the high school level due to their W-L record? Not my point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gipper said: Not my point. Then your statement about W-L being insignificant is patently invalid. Are you saying that coaches don't promote/demote players regarding starters or positions after a loss or due to a win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: So no coach has ever been fired at the high school level due to their W-L record? W-L is not the be all end all measuring stick for high school coaches. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 42 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Then your statement about W-L being insignificant is patently invalid. Are you saying that coaches don't promote/demote players regarding starters or positions after a loss or due to a win? No, it’s not. Using W-L solely for contraction is insignificant. That's all I meant... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: W-L is not the be all end all measuring stick for high school coaches. But it’s about 80% of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 1 minute ago, DanteEstonia said: But it’s about 80% of it. so you agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, Gipper said: No, it’s not. Using W-L solely for contraction is insignificant. That's all I meant... Its not just W-L Its all the below, and more : * Chronic lack of competitiveness * 33 losses in 34 games * Nearly 50 ppg point differential * Chronic coaching turnover * Chronic low numbers * Game cancellations * Internal suspension of lower level games * Significant injury problems * Non existent feeder systems * No community support * Poor admin support * Significant internal demographic changes impacting participation. * Non existent alumni support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCTigerFan07 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 22 minutes ago, Gipper said: No, it’s not. Using W-L solely for contraction is insignificant. That's all I meant... 100% agree with Gipper here. Maybe they are an "outlier", but one of my favorite push backs on the whole "contraction" thing is Alexandria. Take a look at their history. From the 2001 season through 2009 (current Head Coach Pete Gast's first season), the Tigers won 13 games over 9 years, including a losing streak of 31 straight games. However, in the 10+ seasons since, they have gone 46-54 overall (including seasons of 9-2, 8-4 and 7-4) and been mostly competitive in the CIC. That's a school that I guarantee would have made @DT list of contraction opponents following the 2009 season. However, they've to the right guy at the helm that helped provide stability, increase numbers across the board, and get admin support. I'm not in full disagreement that some schools should potentially consider the idea of contraction, however, if Alexandria can overcome a 13-79 W/L stretch to the competitive team they are now, ANY school can come back from the "brink of contraction" IMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 To put it simply, I have a love of the game. But like so many elements in today’s society, this forum (or at least this topic) has become too political. It’s not up to us to decide who gets to play and with whom. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonace1 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, DT said: Its not just W-L Its all the below, and more : * Chronic lack of competitiveness * 33 losses in 34 games * Nearly 50 ppg point differential * Chronic coaching turnover * Chronic low numbers * Game cancellations * Internal suspension of lower level games * Significant injury problems * Non existent feeder systems * No community support * Poor admin support * Significant internal demographic changes impacting participation. * Non existent alumni support I still don't believe we allow someone to use this forum as a tool to state that reducing opportunities for student-athletes is somehow going to make football better. This isn't the NFL. Reducing from 32 to 28 teams isn't going to cull out the worst 200 players. This isn't college - players aren't just going to transfer if their school's program disbands. Some will, but many won't. DT has this delusional view that HSFB is like college, and that people choose their schools and will flock to programs. Instead, the number of programs we want to target in INHSFB should be 400+ - the number of IHSAA schools - not some arbitrary number that one message board poster has decided is "good." Contraction won't help many, but it will hurt the vulnerable kids in rural schools for whom football is an outlet and for many, a lifeline. This is education-based athletics, not big-time college sports. Opportunity is what matters. What happens from 3-5 p.m. every day on the 100-yard classroom matters. You can learn a lot of life lessons as a JV player on an 0-10 team that you'll NEVER learn by going home and playing video games all day because football was taken away. Not every program is going to be Center Grove. You're going to have a few who struggle, and that's OK. In the case of Shelbyville ... they have great alumni support, good admin/community support, have never canceled a game, and they've been largely competitive for the last 20 years and are going through a down cycle. Some of that might be due to demographic changes, younger players choosing other sports, et al, but that's a good, traditional community that loves its sports. Football will *always* be a part of their athletic menu. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCTigerFan07 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gipper said: To put it simply, I have a love of the game. But like so many elements in today’s society, this forum (or at least this topic) has become too political. It’s not up to us to decide who gets to play and with whom. Of course it's not up to us... but I for one find it a good discussion point for a message board, even if I don't always agree with @DT and his views/points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said: 100% agree with Gipper here. Maybe they are an "outlier", but one of my favorite push backs on the whole "contraction" thing is Alexandria. Take a look at their history. From the 2001 season through 2009 (current Head Coach Pete Gast's first season), the Tigers won 13 games over 9 years, including a losing streak of 31 straight games. However, in the 10+ seasons since, they have gone 46-54 overall (including seasons of 9-2, 8-4 and 7-4) and been mostly competitive in the CIC. That's a school that I guarantee would have made @DT list of contraction opponents following the 2009 season. However, they've to the right guy at the helm that helped provide stability, increase numbers across the board, and get admin support. I'm not in full disagreement that some schools should potentially consider the idea of contraction, however, if Alexandria can overcome a 13-79 W/L stretch to the competitive team they are now, ANY school can come back from the "brink of contraction" IMO Contraction is a decision that is based on the future, not the past. The negative trends that are impacting the game will become MORE negative as time goes by. Failing programs will become more difficult to resuscitate due to dwindling resources Alexandria was able to rebuild while football was still on a growth trajectory. The game has peaked and is now in downsizing mode. Shelby will have a very difficult time rebuilding in the current climate. It then becomes a local administrative decision relative to allocation of resources. What activities serve the greater good? Every community is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said: Of course it's not up to us... but I for one find it a good discussion point for a message board, even if I don't always agree with @DT and his views/points. Fair point. I just happened to go a little off the deep end when my alma mater became involved. Although it’s true SN isn’t winning too many, OK—any games right now, I don’t take kindly to outsiders deciding how to run the program. As I have always maintained, athletic success at SN is cyclical, as it is at any rural school. We can’t continually add 50+ great athletes like the big schools. Games also are a place for community members to come together, and provide many opportunities for student involvement, i. e. bands, cheerleaders, etc. Athletics plays a big part in the fabric of Kentland, Goodland, and Brook—anybody who wants to take that away needs to consider the whole equation. Edited September 26, 2019 by Gipper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 53 minutes ago, Gipper said: No, it’s not. Using W-L solely for contraction is insignificant. That's all I meant... And I don't believe any advocates for contraction here on the GID have stated that W-L should be the only factor considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said: Contraction won't help many, but it will hurt the vulnerable kids in rural schools for whom football is an outlet and for many, a lifeline. There are many other outlets and "lifelines" in rural areas besides football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 9 hours ago, psaboy said: Out of curiosity, what is the largest school that doesn't field a football team? Miami Dolphins? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, Muda69 said: There are many other outlets and "lifelines" in rural areas besides football. Not in the fall, cross country is not a big draw😉 20 minutes ago, Muda69 said: And I don't believe any advocates for contraction here on the GID have stated that W-L should be the only factor considered. Good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gipper said: Not in the fall, cross country is not a big draw😉 I wasn't talking necessarily about extracurricular athletics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Muda69 said: I wasn't talking necessarily about extracurricular athletics. And your sarcasm detector must be switched to off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, Gipper said: And your sarcasm detector must be switched to off... Kind of hard to detect in a 100% written environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.