#1 Ev. Memorial vs #2 Heritage Hills (Sect 32)

[OlMarksmenTiger]

2 hours ago, jets said:

We’ve done pretty well (3 pages worth) of avoiding turning this into a “PAC vs SIAC” thing…BUT - you might want to take off your SIAC colored glasses a bit with comparing the 3rd place SIAC team to a team whose only losses the last 2 years are to Chatard, and some Kentucky state champs.
 

If we’re comparing- I’d say a Memorial/GS comparison (we played them both) is more relatable than a Castle/HH. 
 

 

I agree, and my intent was not to make it PAC/SIAC thing.  As you have shown, you have taken some offense and not done much research, which was the exact purpose of my comment.  Castle tied for 2nd and the other loss was an unbelievable miracle by Mater Dei.  I think you will see Castle make a run this year.  My take is on the tale of the tape objectively.  My observation on screen and review of the rosters tell me Castle and HH are physically similar on the field, except Castle not playing guys both ways including a couple D1 commits. Goldsberry and McCool Bio's on MaxPreps are nearly identical on speed and strength measurements.  

Just like I understand your take on Mem/GS because that is what you saw. I have no problem with that.  That's a good basis for your opinion.  My reply is that you saw the anomaly, not the usual.  We will see who shows up tomorrow.

But even without my SIAC glasses on, I can see the 3A tournament success for HH and GS the last 5 years has been in the absence of Memorial, so who know what would have happened.  And if you look, you will see the only losses in the tournament for Memorial the last 3 years has been to the eventual 4A State Champion in Regional/Semi-state. (East Central, Mt. V-Fortville). 

So again, I expect a close game. You can expect a HH/GS score, that's fine.

 

[NumbersNvrLie]

6 hours ago, OlMarksmenTiger said:

I agree, and my intent was not to make it PAC/SIAC thing.  As you have shown, you have taken some offense and not done much research, which was the exact purpose of my comment.  Castle tied for 2nd and the other loss was an unbelievable miracle by Mater Dei.  I think you will see Castle make a run this year.  My take is on the tale of the tape objectively.  My observation on screen and review of the rosters tell me Castle and HH are physically similar on the field, except Castle not playing guys both ways including a couple D1 commits. Goldsberry and McCool Bio's on MaxPreps are nearly identical on speed and strength measurements.  

Just like I understand your take on Mem/GS because that is what you saw. I have no problem with that.  That's a good basis for your opinion.  My reply is that you saw the anomaly, not the usual.  We will see who shows up tomorrow.

But even without my SIAC glasses on, I can see the 3A tournament success for HH and GS the last 5 years has been in the absence of Memorial, so who know what would have happened.  And if you look, you will see the only losses in the tournament for Memorial the last 3 years has been to the eventual 4A State Champion in Regional/Semi-state. (East Central, Mt. V-Fortville). 

So again, I expect a close game. You can expect a HH/GS score, that's fine.

 

Calpreps for what its worth

regular season (neutral field)

[2019] Heritage Hills (Lincoln City, IN) 19 (57%), [2019] Reitz Memorial (Evansville, IN) 17 (43%)

[PAC FAN]

8 hours ago, OlMarksmenTiger said:

I agree, and my intent was not to make it PAC/SIAC thing.  As you have shown, you have taken some offense and not done much research, which was the exact purpose of my comment.  Castle tied for 2nd and the other loss was an unbelievable miracle by Mater Dei.  I think you will see Castle make a run this year.  My take is on the tale of the tape objectively.  My observation on screen and review of the rosters tell me Castle and HH are physically similar on the field, except Castle not playing guys both ways including a couple D1 commits. Goldsberry and McCool Bio's on MaxPreps are nearly identical on speed and strength measurements.  

Just like I understand your take on Mem/GS because that is what you saw. I have no problem with that.  That's a good basis for your opinion.  My reply is that you saw the anomaly, not the usual.  We will see who shows up tomorrow.

But even without my SIAC glasses on, I can see the 3A tournament success for HH and GS the last 5 years has been in the absence of Memorial, so who know what would have happened.  And if you look, you will see the only losses in the tournament for Memorial the last 3 years has been to the eventual 4A State Champion in Regional/Semi-state. (East Central, Mt. V-Fortville). 

So again, I expect a close game. You can expect a HH/GS score, that's fine.

 

HH35 Mem 14

 

I don’t care who plays both ways on athletes…. Been HHs bread and butter for many years…. This year we have a solid rotation on the Oline and Dline

over all HH will be the best all round team the tigers have seen this year

Mem IS not the best team HH has seen this year… outside of an average Reitz and over rated MD…. Memorial was the cream of the crop in the city and if you count the commuter enrollment, prob in Souther Indiana albeit HH. 

[HHPatriots]

8 hours ago, OlMarksmenTiger said:

I agree, and my intent was not to make it PAC/SIAC thing.  As you have shown, you have taken some offense and not done much research, which was the exact purpose of my comment.  Castle tied for 2nd and the other loss was an unbelievable miracle by Mater Dei.  I think you will see Castle make a run this year.  My take is on the tale of the tape objectively.  My observation on screen and review of the rosters tell me Castle and HH are physically similar on the field, except Castle not playing guys both ways including a couple D1 commits. Goldsberry and McCool Bio's on MaxPreps are nearly identical on speed and strength measurements.  

Just like I understand your take on Mem/GS because that is what you saw. I have no problem with that.  That's a good basis for your opinion.  My reply is that you saw the anomaly, not the usual.  We will see who shows up tomorrow.

But even without my SIAC glasses on, I can see the 3A tournament success for HH and GS the last 5 years has been in the absence of Memorial, so who know what would have happened.  And if you look, you will see the only losses in the tournament for Memorial the last 3 years has been to the eventual 4A State Champion in Regional/Semi-state. (East Central, Mt. V-Fortville). 

So again, I expect a close game. You can expect a HH/GS score, that's fine.

 

"except Castle not playing guys both ways"  All the guys we have playing both ways, isn't a problem--until it is.  This is the time of year it becomes a problem.  We play guys both ways WHEN WE DO NOT HAVE TO.  This drives me insane, but my sanity doesn't matter here.  But this is one of the things that can get us beat, and does against great teams.  

I'm not sure how this Memorial team would stack up against CAL, a game I'd like to have back.  I think we could tighten that us a bit. That was an excellent team.

Edited November 8, 2024 by HHPatriots

[Titan32]

8 hours ago, OlMarksmenTiger said:

 

But even without my SIAC glasses on, I can see the 3A tournament success for HH and GS the last 5 years has been in the absence of Memorial, so who know what would have happened.

Give me a break.  This Memorial talking point that I see pop up from other sources as well is absolutely ridiculous.  I KNOW how it would have turned out for us.

It’s a statement that takes you deep into the psyche of a P/P sports parent, lamenting at tailgates about where they “should’ve” been.  Someday this crap will get fixed….you are not where you belong.  The fact you guys even discuss it is so very telling.

If Memorial P/Ps properly, most years they shouldn’t have trouble with public’s in a corn field or in a state forest.  But every few years….look out.  Even disadvantaged with students body’s that include 25% plus FAL kids and substantial special needs programs that count toward enrollment…somehow…by the grace of God, these meager public programs are able to competes with the supreme homogeneity of their misclassified quasi P/P rivals.

All that said I’ll say a little prayer tonight for the recent success the IHSAA has gifted us poor little rural public’s.

[HHPatriots]

7 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Give me a break.  This Memorial talking point that I see pop up from other sources as well is absolutely ridiculous.  I KNOW how it would have turned out for us.

It’s a statement that takes you deep into the psyche of a P/P sports parent, lamenting at tailgates about where they “should’ve” been.  Someday this crap will get fixed….you are not where you belong.  The fact you guys even discuss it is so very telling.

If Memorial P/Ps properly, most years they shouldn’t have trouble with public’s in a corn field or in a state forest.  But every few years….look out.  Even disadvantaged with students body’s that include 25% plus FAL kids and substantial special needs programs that count toward enrollment…somehow…by the grace of God, these meager public programs are able to competes with the supreme homogeneity of their misclassified quasi P/P rivals.

All that said I’ll say a little prayer tonight for the recent success the IHSAA has gifted us poor little rural public’s.

I enjoyed this with quite a belly laugh, with of course, a toothless grin and one of my overall straps undone (and shirtless).

It is frustrating, it was frustrating last year at state and 2019 at state.  Hopefully this may be the year that we can overcome all that and pull it off.  

[jets]

8 hours ago, OlMarksmenTiger said:

I agree, and my intent was not to make it PAC/SIAC thing.  As you have shown, you have taken some offense and not done much research, which was the exact purpose of my comment.  Castle tied for 2nd and the other loss was an unbelievable miracle by Mater Dei.  I think you will see Castle make a run this year.  My take is on the tale of the tape objectively.  My observation on screen and review of the rosters tell me Castle and HH are physically similar on the field, except Castle not playing guys both ways including a couple D1 commits. Goldsberry and McCool Bio's on MaxPreps are nearly identical on speed and strength measurements.  

Just like I understand your take on Mem/GS because that is what you saw. I have no problem with that.  That's a good basis for your opinion.  My reply is that you saw the anomaly, not the usual.  We will see who shows up tomorrow.

But even without my SIAC glasses on, I can see the 3A tournament success for HH and GS the last 5 years has been in the absence of Memorial, so who know what would have happened.  And if you look, you will see the only losses in the tournament for Memorial the last 3 years has been to the eventual 4A State Champion in Regional/Semi-state. (East Central, Mt. V-Fortville). 

So again, I expect a close game. You can expect a HH/GS score, that's fine.

 

An argument can be made that the 4A sectional Memorial played in was not as difficult as 3A...meaning, Memorial may in fact not even gotten out of Sectional had they been down in class. No way to know obviously...just pointing out that fact

13 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Give me a break.  This Memorial talking point that I see pop up from other sources as well is absolutely ridiculous.  I KNOW how it would have turned out for us.

It’s a statement that takes you deep into the psyche of a P/P sports parent, lamenting at tailgates about where they “should’ve” been.  Someday this crap will get fixed….you are not where you belong.  The fact you guys even discuss it is so very telling.

If Memorial P/Ps properly, most years they shouldn’t have trouble with public’s in a corn field or in a state forest.  But every few years….look out.  Even disadvantaged with students body’s that include 25% plus FAL kids and substantial special needs programs that count toward enrollment…somehow…by the grace of God, these meager public programs are able to competes with the supreme homogeneity of their misclassified quasi P/P rivals.

All that said I’ll say a little prayer tonight for the recent success the IHSAA has gifted us poor little rural public’s.

We are on the same side on this 32 ....but we (SR) still live in different worlds (than GS). Your point still remains - not ALL enrollments are created equal.  

[FootballFan2000]

Been off the grid for a long time this year in posting, but still reading.

I decided to go to the HH/VL game last week purely as a fan of HS football (and I hadn't seen HH play in person, at the Jungle). 

VL starting the game with 2 impressive drives, eating up a bunch of the clock on their own. 14 play drives or something crazy. Yes, they converted a few 4th downs and got "lucky" on the tipped TD, but still up 14-13 at the half was more than a surprise to me, and the HH fans I was sitting near. 

HH defense is very stout, outside of the down linemen, it was sometimes just a blob of people standing and moving around. Makes it difficult to know who is dropping in coverage as a DB or playing as a LB or who might be blitzing. HH scored on a big pass play for their first TD, and it could've been the only pass they completed? If my memory serves me correct. They tried a few more deep shots but were unsuccessful. The other pass plays Goldsberry would just take off if nothing was open, which is a good offense for them.

I too was shocked by the 4th down conversion early in the game, had VL stopped that, it could've gotten even more wild. But as someone else mentioned, I don't think VL was expecting it either and it worked, so ended up being a good call.

Goldsberry had a tough time gaining any real momentum running the ball against the VL D. Don't know if he was banged up a little but everything I had read leading into the game is how fast he was, which could be true in the open field. VL DEs did a decent job containing and rallying to tackle him. Of course, HH had their success too or they wouldn't have scored 34 points. In a one game setting, not knowing anything about either QB ahead of time, I would say I was more impressed with VL's QB play.

Final note, not sure who called it but running the starting RB/QB with less than a minute to go when it was obvious VL wasn't using their timeouts was asking for an injury. Either the QB needs to be taken out or just take a knee. Also, HH had several late hit/unsportsmanlike penalties against them. VL had one or two as well but HH was doing stuff I've seen from Reitz teams in the past.

All that said, close game, Ben Johnson is the best coordinator in the southern part of the state, Memorial by a score. 

Edited November 8, 2024 by FootballFan2000

[HHPatriots]

It is now not yet 9:00am and I have been at work for 2.5 hours and have been asked 972 times, "are we winning tonight?" 

My answer is now a standard, "if we capitalize on a rare Memorial mistake and we play a perfect game, yes, we win by a score."

[tango]

29 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

It is now not yet 9:00am and I have been at work for 2.5 hours and have been asked 972 times, "are we winning tonight?" 

LOL. I usually get those by text...

[vanman]

It should be a close game. It will boil down to a few big plays. Old people state the obvious.

[OlMarksmenTiger]

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Give me a break.  This Memorial talking point that I see pop up from other sources as well is absolutely ridiculous.  I KNOW how it would have turned out for us.

It’s a statement that takes you deep into the psyche of a P/P sports parent, lamenting at tailgates about where they “should’ve” been.  Someday this crap will get fixed….you are not where you belong.  The fact you guys even discuss it is so very telling.

If Memorial P/Ps properly, most years they shouldn’t have trouble with public’s in a corn field or in a state forest.  But every few years….look out.  Even disadvantaged with students body’s that include 25% plus FAL kids and substantial special needs programs that count toward enrollment…somehow…by the grace of God, these meager public programs are able to competes with the supreme homogeneity of their misclassified quasi P/P rivals.

All that said I’ll say a little prayer tonight for the recent success the IHSAA has gifted us poor little rural public’s.

My comment was specifically geared toward the "only losses HH has had" comment.  Stating a fact, not lamenting on would have's or could have's. 

Other than this being an obvious sore subject for you and you feeling the need to project unfounded opinions on a Memorial group,  I completely 100% agree with you.    I read an interview over the summer with HH Coach Wilkerson that included discussion about Success Factor and the new classifications.  I didn't disagree with anything he said.  To your point of the enrollment spectrum, he said a multiplier would seem more appropriate.  I don't know how they determine what that number is though. The Success factor impacts public schools as much as private and that's not working if the intent is to level the field and not "punish" strong communities and programs.  His other point was in  the 5 years in 4A, Memorial has won 1 State, 1 Semi-state, 2 Regionals, 4 Sectionals.  How is that not enough success to stay in 4A?  I agree. 

 

[Titan32]

30 minutes ago, OlMarksmenTiger said:

My comment was specifically geared toward the "only losses HH has had" comment.  Stating a fact, not lamenting on would have's or could have's. 

Other than this being an obvious sore subject for you and you feeling the need to project unfounded opinions on a Memorial group,  I completely 100% agree with you.    I read an interview over the summer with HH Coach Wilkerson that included discussion about Success Factor and the new classifications.  I didn't disagree with anything he said.  To your point of the enrollment spectrum, he said a multiplier would seem more appropriate.  I don't know how they determine what that number is though. The Success factor impacts public schools as much as private and that's not working if the intent is to level the field and not "punish" strong communities and programs.  His other point was in  the 5 years in 4A, Memorial has won 1 State, 1 Semi-state, 2 Regionals, 4 Sectionals.  How is that not enough success to stay in 4A?  I agree. 

 

I'm not sure "sore" would be the correct characterization, but it's certainly something I am passionate about. Perhaps it was unintended, but your comment aligned with the Memorial talking points I pick up from multiple sources other than this bulletin board.

With regard to your second paragraph....good for you.  Once someone pays for a service they are then sometimes blind to the obvious.  You appear to get it.  That said, two good football teams tonight....should be entertaining to watch.

[MDAlum82]

Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the first half, beside the overall score, was HH's passing game on both offense and defense.  HH line is impressive but 3 BIG plays, 2 of them long TD passes, may have caught many off-guard, including myself.  However, the Patroit pass D was really impressive.  Only rushing 3 but still keeping sufficient pressure on Fisher, the Patriot LBs & DBs have been solid until the last drive of the half.  Kudos to Patriots.

The quick TD drive by the Tigers to close the half kept them in the game, at least for a while longer.  BUT, as I write this, the Tigers have come out to start the 2nd half with a long TD pass in a drive that lasted just over a minute. 

Could be a wild second half.  Stay tuned.

[blockdownkickout2718]

25 minutes ago, MDAlum82 said:

Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the first half, beside the overall score, was HH's passing game on both offense and defense.  HH line is impressive but 3 BIG plays, 2 of them long TD passes, may have caught many off-guard, including myself.  However, the Patroit pass D was really impressive.  Only rushing 3 but still keeping sufficient pressure on Fisher, the Patriot LBs & DBs have been solid until the last drive of the half.  Kudos to Patriots.

The quick TD drive by the Tigers to close the half kept them in the game, at least for a while longer.  BUT, as I write this, the Tigers have come out to start the 2nd half with a long TD pass in a drive that lasted just over a minute. 

Could be a wild second half.  Stay tuned.

It was a wild 3rd quarter. HH up 7 going into the 4th quarter. Should be an interesting 4th quarter...

[temptation]

Man, Memorial had the RB wide open in the flat on that 4th and 4…

[Titan32]

53 minutes ago, MDAlum82 said:

Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the first half, beside the overall score, was HH's passing game on both offense and defense.  HH line is impressive but 3 BIG plays, 2 of them long TD passes, may have caught many off-guard, including myself.  However, the Patroit pass D was really impressive.  Only rushing 3 but still keeping sufficient pressure on Fisher, the Patriot LBs & DBs have been solid until the last drive of the half.  Kudos to Patriots.

The quick TD drive by the Tigers to close the half kept them in the game, at least for a while longer.  BUT, as I write this, the Tigers have come out to start the 2nd half with a long TD pass in a drive that lasted just over a minute. 

Could be a wild second half.  Stay tuned.

Nothing surprising about that score.

[MDAlum82]

CONGRATULATIONS Patriots!  The Patriot Defense was the difference as they were able to stop the Tigers 2x inside the 10 yd line.  Fingers crossed for a long drive to Indy over Thanksgiving break for HH faithful.

[blockdownkickout2718]

Heritage Hills seals it with a 44 yard Jett Goldsberry touchdown. What a game. I have to think HH rolls to at least semi-state with this win. 

[Titan32]

Maybe the state championship was played in the 1st round of sectionals. 🤷‍♂️

We will have to ask the HH guys but how interesting would a Memorial GS game have been?

I guess Memorial was fortunate being in that 4A sectional for a while.  Would have been tough for them to get out of the SWI 3A sectional.

 

 

[Titan32]

26 minutes ago, temptation said:

Man, Memorial had the RB wide open in the flat on that 4th and 4…

RB was a good option all night in man to man.

[Titan32]

10 minutes ago, blockdownkickout2718 said:

Heritage Hills seals it with a 44 yard Jett Goldsberry touchdown. What a game. I have to think HH rolls to at least semi-state with this win. 

After this man handling of Memorial, I have to agree.

[TigerFan20]

Tough game for my Tigers, Congrats HH! Good luck at Regionals! 

[Cappy]

22 hours ago, OlMarksmenTiger said:

Goldsberry and McCool Bio's on MaxPreps are nearly identical on speed and strength measurements

McCool maybe closer to RB Hunter Meredith

[blockdownkickout2718]

8 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Maybe the state championship was played in the 1st round of sectionals. 🤷‍♂️

We will have to ask the HH guys but how interesting would a Memorial GS game have been?

I guess Memorial was fortunate being in that 4A sectional for a while.  Would have been tough for them to get out of the SWI 3A sectional.

 

 

Memorial was absolutely fortunate to have been in 4A for awhile. Being in the same sectional as HH and Gibson is a meat grinder. That's not a PP/public school comment, just a comment on how good Gibson and Heritage Hills have been. These two schools have elite programs that I don't think get enough recognition across the state.