Offseason Topics of Discussion

[jets]

In your opinion - what offseason issue/topic should the IHSAA and the IFCA try and fix/take-on?? 

My "wish-list" - in order of priority- would be:

1. SEEDING the postseason tourney. Having a wrestling background - it is so stinking simple- I don't know why we continually make the regular season "meaningless" (I know it is not - but you get my point. Imagine the NCAA basketball tourney just "blind draw" it...or the CFP. They don't, and there is a reason they don't.)

2. Postseason Championship games being allowed to be played on less than adequate field conditions. This too I believe is an easy fix. 

3. I think I'm fine with the Success Factor as is - kuddos on the IHSAA for making it a "rolling" cycle and not a fix'd one...makes a lot more sense. 

-Other than that, I believe the sport is in a great spot. What would your list be?? 

[Muda69]

23 minutes ago, jets said:

2. Postseason Championship games being allowed to be played on less than adequate field conditions. This too I believe is an easy fix. 

AKA "Postseason Championship games should only be played on artificial surfaces. No grass fields. "   Just go ahead and say it. 

 

[23andCounting]

I'd say seeding is the most important issue. Is there another sport at any level where the regular season means nothing? Or is this just an Indiana thing?

[crimsonace1]

4 hours ago, jets said:

In your opinion - what offseason issue/topic should the IHSAA and the IFCA try and fix/take-on?? 

My "wish-list" - in order of priority- would be:

1. SEEDING the postseason tourney. Having a wrestling background - it is so stinking simple- I don't know why we continually make the regular season "meaningless" (I know it is not - but you get my point. Imagine the NCAA basketball tourney just "blind draw" it...or the CFP. They don't, and there is a reason they don't.)

2. Postseason Championship games being allowed to be played on less than adequate field conditions. This too I believe is an easy fix. 

3. I think I'm fine with the Success Factor as is - kuddos on the IHSAA for making it a "rolling" cycle and not a fix'd one...makes a lot more sense. 

-Other than that, I believe the sport is in a great spot. What would your list be?? 

Reclassifying every year. Or, if a team bumps down or up a class mid-cycle due to the SF, another team replaces them. 

For example: New Pal moved up from 4A to 5A this year mid-cycle, and Cathedral moved down from 6A. Decatur Central replaced Cathedral, so 6A stayed at 32 teams. But New Pal moving up meant 5A had 33. The smallest 5A school would bump down in this scenario. 

If Cathedral does not make it to state next year, it will have a mid-cycle bump down. Assuming nobody moves up from 4A to 5A, the largest school in 4A would move up. 

(This would be much easier if we just reclassified every year). My rationale is to avoid the weird 3-team and 5-team sectionals we have in 5A and 6A sometimes. 

[Coach Lou]

Boy's and Girl's basketball, Baseball, Softball, Volleyball, Boys' and Girl's soccer all do not seed their tournament.

[NeonDeion]

I believe wrestling is the only sport that has a seeding process for the state tournament. I'd say the closest thing to it would be the heat system used in the Track and Swimming/Diving tournaments. 

[CoachMack219]

17 hours ago, jets said:

1. SEEDING the postseason tourney. Having a wrestling background - it is so stinking simple- I don't know why we continually make the regular season "meaningless" (I know it is not - but you get my point. Imagine the NCAA basketball tourney just "blind draw" it...or the CFP. They don't, and there is a reason they don't.)

13 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Reclassifying every year. Or, if a team bumps down or up a class mid-cycle due to the SF, another team replaces them. 

For example: New Pal moved up from 4A to 5A this year mid-cycle, and Cathedral moved down from 6A. Decatur Central replaced Cathedral, so 6A stayed at 32 teams. But New Pal moving up meant 5A had 33. The smallest 5A school would bump down in this scenario. 

If Cathedral does not make it to state next year, it will have a mid-cycle bump down. Assuming nobody moves up from 4A to 5A, the largest school in 4A would move up. 

(This would be much easier if we just reclassified every year). My rationale is to avoid the weird 3-team and 5-team sectionals we have in 5A and 6A sometimes. 

I like these two the most. If we're going to have 2 classes with 32 (which I think should be 6A and 1A so add that to this list... LOL), then those two classes (6A and 5A currently) should have 32 schools in them at all times. That much I agree with. The largest school in 4A having to "bump up" isn't ideal and same for the largest school in 5A that could have to "bump" to 6A in an instance like described above. I think your idea is great but I think it works best with 6A and 1A having 32 teams. And yes, lets seed the dang thing already!  

[oldtimeqb]

1 hour ago, Coach Lou said:

Boy's and Girl's basketball, Baseball, Softball, Volleyball, Boys' and Girl's soccer all do not seed their tournament.

They also don’t have 6 classes and have a tournament that stretches a month and a half. I remember when football was the ONLY classed sport. 

I’m ok with football being different. 

[JustRules]

50 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

I like these two the most. If we're going to have 2 classes with 32 (which I think should be 6A and 1A so add that to this list... LOL), then those two classes (6A and 5A currently) should have 32 schools in them at all times. That much I agree with. The largest school in 4A having to "bump up" isn't ideal and same for the largest school in 5A that could have to "bump" to 6A in an instance like described above. I think your idea is great but I think it works best with 6A and 1A having 32 teams. And yes, lets seed the dang thing already!  

When this was set up, 5A was designated as the class that would have any extra schools if the number is above 320 (that was true at the time they made that change). I like the idea of 1A being the other team with 32 schools. Which one do you propose takes the extra teams if we have more than 320 teams?

[Indiana Native]

The biggest issue with seeding is agreeing upon the logic used for it.  Sagarin is what most people are familiar with, but it's far from perfect and dare I say "fair".   Short of that, I like the idea.

I would like to see the officials be granted relief from the microscope of knee pads, eye black and wrist / leg bands or at least have something that remotely resembles consistency.  One week 5 players get sent off for knee pads, the next week players are wearing shorts - without issue.  One week skinny wrist bands are forced to be removed, the next week it's perfectly fine.  Sometimes a heavy dose of eye black is ok, sometimes it's not.  Sometimes t-shirts hanging out is fine, other times it's not.  We have games when a player signaling 1st down is flagged for it, but the next game it happens a dozen times without issue.    

I say let's stop being the fashion police and focus on the game.  (And btw, I am very PRO official and realize we're lucky to have anyone willing to officiate.) 

[Bobref]

10 minutes ago, Indiana Native said:

I would like to see the officials be granted relief from the microscope of knee pads, eye black and wrist / leg bands or at least have something that remotely resembles consistency.  One week 5 players get sent off for knee pads, the next week players are wearing shorts - without issue.  One week skinny wrist bands are forced to be removed, the next week it's perfectly fine.  Sometimes a heavy dose of eye black is ok, sometimes it's not.  Sometimes t-shirts hanging out is fine, other times it's not.  We have games when a player signaling 1st down is flagged for it, but the next game it happens a dozen times without issue.    

I say let's stop being the fashion police and focus on the game.  (And btw, I am very PRO official and realize we're lucky to have anyone willing to officiate.) 

You’re preaching to the choir. We hate being the uniform police. But we have very strict orders that come from way above my pay grade. So, please don’t blame the officials.

[jets]

18 hours ago, Muda69 said:

AKA "Postseason Championship games should only be played on artificial surfaces. No grass fields. "   Just go ahead and say it. 

 

OK - as you wish

"Postseason Championship games should ONLY be played on turf fields - no grass fields." 

[CoachMack219]

44 minutes ago, JustRules said:

When this was set up, 5A was designated as the class that would have any extra schools if the number is above 320 (that was true at the time they made that change). I like the idea of 1A being the other team with 32 schools. Which one do you propose takes the extra teams if we have more than 320 teams?

1A is probably the right answer to this specific question. Although, after looking at the 5 largest schools in 5A (Valparaiso, Warsaw, Whiteland, Merrillville, and Lafayette Jeff) I don't mind 6A getting the extra school(s) either but I certainly don't think Goshen, South Bend Adams, Chesterton, or Castle should be "forced" up.

 

For the purpose of this exercise if I did this for a 32 team 1A, the 5 smallest 2A schools would be Fremont (283), Pioneer (286), Tecumseh (286), Fountain Central (289), and Northfield (296). 

 32 Team Class 1A Based on Latest IHSAA Football Enrollment Data

1. Cloverdale - 283 (1 Sectional Title)

2. Covington - 281 (0 Postseason Titles)

3. Bowman Academy - 277 (0 Postseason Titles)

4. West Washington - 277 (6 Sectionals, 4 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

5. Triton - 274 (3 Sectional Titles)

6. North Daviess - 273 (2 Sectional Titles)

7. Fort Wayne Blackhawk Christian - 270 (0 Postseason Titles)

8. Clinton Central - 268 (4 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

9. Springs Valley - 266 (4 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

10. South Decatur - 265 (3 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 1 State Title) 1990 Champions

11. North White - 264 (3 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 1994 Champions

12. Southwood - 263 (9 Sectionals, 5 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2002 Champions

13. North Miami - 263 (6 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 1993 Champions

14. Purdue Polytechnic (BR) - 262 (0 Postseason Titles)

15. North Central (Farms...) - 257 (2 Sectional Titles)

16. Tri - 256 (4 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

17. Southern Wells - 252 (3 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 1 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2001 Champions

18. Wes-Del - 248 (1 Sectional Title)

19. Culver Community - 246 (4 Sectional Titles)

20. Union City - 244 (0 Postseason Titles)

21. South Newton - 241 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

22. Caston - 241 (0 Postseason Titles)

23. Cambridge City Lincoln - 234 (0 Postseason Titles)

24. Tri-Central - 232 (3 Sectionals, 1 Regional, 1 Semi-State, 1 State Title) 2013 Champions

25. Edinburgh - 227 (0 Postseason Titles)

26. Greenwood Christian Academy - 222 (0 Postseason Titles)

27. Tri-County - 220 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

28. North Vermillion - 218 (7 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2014 Champions

29. West Central - 209 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

30. Indianapolis Tindley - 202 (0 Postseason Titles)

31. Frontier - 180 (6 Sectional Titles, 2 Regional Titles)

32. Attica - 160 (1 Sectional, 1 Regional, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

 

I think this class would crown quite a few "new State Champs" and see quite a few more "State Championship game participants" which would help the original goal I referenced in my original post about success factor in that thread. I also think "adding" a Pioneer to this class is more detrimental to these 32 schools than it would be to add 1 Valpo or Warsaw into 6A... Might be changing my answer after this little activity. Lol 

Edited December 3, 2025 by CoachMack219

[CoachMack219]

16 minutes ago, Bobref said:

You’re preaching to the choir. We hate being the uniform police. But we have very strict orders that come from way above my pay grade. So, please don’t blame the officials.

Next time you talk to the higher ups, you tell 'em (for me) enough is enough and that coaches (and fans) care WAY more about officials correctly assessing holding, pass interference, facemasks, etc. than we do about our kids knee pads that offer virtually no protection to the patella or surrounding areas anyways or any silly a** arm bands our kids want to wear. Appreciate you and the officials no matter WHAT @Rodney says about you guys! 😂 

[Muda69]

30 minutes ago, jets said:

OK - as you wish

"Postseason Championship games should ONLY be played on turf fields - no grass fields." 

Thank you.

Now the obvious next question is why?

 

[crimsonace1]

33 minutes ago, Bobref said:

You’re preaching to the choir. We hate being the uniform police. But we have very strict orders that come from way above my pay grade. So, please don’t blame the officials.

The only uniform policing I care about is are the numbers clearly contrasting from the jersey (and that means purple-on-black or gray-on-white DO NOT COUNT. That's not enough of a contrast) so they can be seen from the stands and press box. 

[jets]

4 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Thank you.

Now the obvious next question is why?

 

In my opinion - Championship level games deserve championship level facilities/playing surfaces. Why do we reward the best ref crews with the highest level games? Why do we play the State Finals at the best football field in the State?? If we can (and yes, we can), sectional championships and on up should be played on turf fields. IU, Notre Dame, the Colts all realize this - Purdue is dumb lol...

[Muda69]

6 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

The only uniform policing I care about is are the numbers clearly contrasting from the jersey (and that means purple-on-black or gray-on-white DO NOT COUNT. That's not enough of a contrast) so they can be seen from the stands and press box. 

When did Black become another official school color for virtually every high school in the state?

 

[crimsonace1]

1 hour ago, JustRules said:

When this was set up, 5A was designated as the class that would have any extra schools if the number is above 320 (that was true at the time they made that change). I like the idea of 1A being the other team with 32 schools. Which one do you propose takes the extra teams if we have more than 320 teams?

It would be 1A getting the "extra" teams if we go above 320 in this scenario. 

But the reason the old 5A was split rather than going 1A/6A as the 32-team classes (given 1A/6A have the widest variance in enrollments) was because, had the 1A/6A scenario been proposed, half of the state's schools would've bumped up a class and that would've caused significant disruption to the tourney, longstanding sectional rivalries, et al (and also, would've meant a lot of traditional 2A schools become 3A, 3As become 4A, et al). There's no way a lot of schools would go for that. So, to get it actually passed, splitting 5A was what needed to happen. 

5A in football is basically like 2A in basketball - there's a very narrow enrollment band from top to bottom once the success factor teams are removed (it's like 1.5:1 in both classes). 

When I proposed an idea to limit 4A to 64 schools, and make 1A/2A 128 schools (with the remainder in 3A) for basketball and the four-class sports ... with the rationale that 2A/3A would have a 2:1 enrollment ratio from top to bottom, and 4A/1A would be closer to 3:1 without the tiny outliers at the bottom of 1A, a bunch of small-school coaches freaked out because their sectional might include 2A teams (horror of horrors) and said "absolutely no way" because they'd have to face slightly bigger schools than they face now. 

3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

When did Black become another official school color for virtually every high school in the state?

 

When schools either decided a) it looked cool, or b) using black with dark-colored numbers made it harder to scout their teams on film. 

[Muda69]

3 minutes ago, jets said:

In my opinion - Championship level games deserve championship level facilities/playing surfaces. Why do we reward the best ref crews with the highest level games? Why do we play the State Finals at the best football field in the State?? If we can (and yes, we can), sectional championships and on up should be played on turf fields. IU, Notre Dame, the Colts all realize this - Purdue is dumb lol...

I disagree.  There is nothing "non-championship level" about a grass football field. Just OCD coaches who want to remove every possible variable from a contest.  

Just a game. Played by children. 

 

[crimsonace1]

4 minutes ago, jets said:

In my opinion - Championship level games deserve championship level facilities/playing surfaces. Why do we reward the best ref crews with the highest level games? Why do we play the State Finals at the best football field in the State?? If we can (and yes, we can), sectional championships and on up should be played on turf fields. IU, Notre Dame, the Colts all realize this - Purdue is dumb lol...

Purdue has a turf management major and pretty robust turf management program. They will never play on an artificial surface in any sport. They are very, very proud of their grass fields. 

A decade and a half ago, Bishop Chatard had one of the first turf high school baseball fields in the state - if not the first. From what I've heard - and this story may be apocryphal - the person who donated it intended for it to go to Purdue as they were building Alexander Field, but they basically said "we have a turf management major. We're going to play on grass," so that person donate it to Chatard instead. 

[Justasportsfan]

12 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

When did Black become another official school color for virtually every high school in the state?

 

makes you look big and scary..

[CoachDean4758]

1 hour ago, CoachMack219 said:

1A is probably the right answer to this specific question. Although, after looking at the 5 largest schools in 5A (Valparaiso, Warsaw, Whiteland, Merrillville, and Lafayette Jeff) I don't mind 6A getting the extra school(s) either but I certainly don't think Goshen, South Bend Adams, Chesterton, or Castle should be "forced" up.

 

For the purpose of this exercise if I did this for a 32 team 1A, the 5 smallest 2A schools would be Fremont (283), Pioneer (286), Tecumseh (286), Fountain Central (289), and Northfield (296). 

 32 Team Class 1A Based on Latest IHSAA Football Enrollment Data

1. Cloverdale - 283 (1 Sectional Title)

2. Covington - 281 (0 Postseason Titles)

3. Bowman Academy - 277 (0 Postseason Titles)

4. West Washington - 277 (6 Sectionals, 4 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

5. Triton - 274 (3 Sectional Titles)

6. North Daviess - 273 (2 Sectional Titles)

7. Fort Wayne Blackhawk Christian - 270 (0 Postseason Titles)

8. Clinton Central - 268 (4 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

9. Springs Valley - 266 (4 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

10. South Decatur - 265 (3 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 1 State Title) 1990 Champions

11. North White - 264 (3 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 1994 Champions

12. Southwood - 263 (9 Sectionals, 5 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2002 Champions

13. North Miami - 263 (6 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 1993 Champions

14. Purdue Polytechnic (BR) - 262 (0 Postseason Titles)

15. North Central (Farms...) - 257 (2 Sectional Titles)

16. Tri - 256 (4 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

17. Southern Wells - 252 (3 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 1 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2001 Champions

18. Wes-Del - 248 (1 Sectional Title)

19. Culver Community - 246 (4 Sectional Titles)

20. Union City - 244 (0 Postseason Titles)

21. South Newton - 241 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

22. Caston - 241 (0 Postseason Titles)

23. Cambridge City Lincoln - 234 (0 Postseason Titles)

24. Tri-Central - 232 (3 Sectionals, 1 Regional, 1 Semi-State, 1 State Title) 2013 Champions

25. Edinburgh - 227 (0 Postseason Titles)

26. Greenwood Christian Academy - 222 (0 Postseason Titles)

27. Tri-County - 220 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

28. North Vermillion - 218 (7 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2014 Champions

29. West Central - 209 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

30. Indianapolis Tindley - 202 (0 Postseason Titles)

31. Frontier - 180 (6 Sectional Titles, 2 Regional Titles)

32. Attica - 160 (1 Sectional, 1 Regional, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

 

I think this class would crown quite a few "new State Champs" and see quite a few more "State Championship game participants" which would help the original goal I referenced in my original post about success factor in that thread. I also think "adding" a Pioneer to this class is more detrimental to these 32 schools than it would be to add 1 Valpo or Warsaw into 6A... Might be changing my answer after this little activity. Lol 

Quote interesting. Being the coach at the smallest one a school I would definitely like to see something like this. The difference in 160 to 283 is far mar significant than the difference in say 700 and 1000 for a larger school. As a small school the pool of kids you have is significantly less than that of larger schools. I think the question is when does the size of the pool no longer matter. Even if I was able to get say 70 percent of the boys in the school to come out for football that is 56 boys assuming a 50/50 split of boys and girls in enrollment(I’m not sure what our split is). That number would still be less kids than the current roster at south putnam. At the higher classes this just isn’t the same issue. As a coach I believe that it is our job to recruit the hallways and get kids interested in the sport but when the kids just aren’t there it doesn’t matter how successful you are at recruiting the hallways ways. I don’t expect to see a change but I do believe the two classes that should be capped are the top and bottom class.

[Rodney]

2 hours ago, CoachMack219 said:

Next time you talk to the higher ups, you tell 'em (for me) enough is enough and that coaches (and fans) care WAY more about officials correctly assessing holding, pass interference, facemasks, etc. than we do about our kids knee pads that offer virtually no protection to the patella or surrounding areas anyways or any silly a** arm bands our kids want to wear. Appreciate you and the officials no matter WHAT @Rodney says about you guys! 😂 

What do i say

 

Im the only person on the digest to make a suggestion on how to get refs paid more

[CoachMack219]

39 minutes ago, Rodney said:

What do i say

 

Im the only person on the digest to make a suggestion on how to get refs paid more

I recall something about not needing officials? Among other claims... Lol