Offseason Topics of Discussion

[CoachMack219]

56 minutes ago, CoachDean4758 said:

Quote interesting. Being the coach at the smallest one a school I would definitely like to see something like this. The difference in 160 to 283 is far mar significant than the difference in say 700 and 1000 for a larger school. As a small school the pool of kids you have is significantly less than that of larger schools. I think the question is when does the size of the pool no longer matter. Even if I was able to get say 70 percent of the boys in the school to come out for football that is 56 boys assuming a 50/50 split of boys and girls in enrollment(I’m not sure what our split is). That number would still be less kids than the current roster at south putnam. At the higher classes this just isn’t the same issue. As a coach I believe that it is our job to recruit the hallways and get kids interested in the sport but when the kids just aren’t there it doesn’t matter how successful you are at recruiting the hallways ways. I don’t expect to see a change but I do believe the two classes that should be capped are the top and bottom class.

Totally agree with the bolded sentences and nearly all parts of your post. I understand the WHY behind how we got here as someone explained above but I'm pretty sure Pioneer and South Putnam would be just fine with playing Whiting, North Putnam, and Northeastern (teams that would be near top of enrollment in my "new" 2A).  

[tango]

4 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

They also don’t have 6 classes and have a tournament that stretches a month and a half. I remember when football was the ONLY classed sport. 

I’m ok with football being different. 

And the post-season was much more exciting for those other sports, IMO.

[oldtimeqb]

3 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

But the reason the old 5A was split rather than going 1A/6A as the 32-team classes (given 1A/6A have the widest variance in enrollments) was because, had the 1A/6A scenario been proposed, half of the state's schools would've bumped up a class and that would've caused significant disruption to the tourney, longstanding sectional rivalries, et al (and also, would've meant a lot of traditional 2A schools become 3A, 3As become 4A, et al). There's no way a lot of schools would go for that. So, to get it actually passed, splitting 5A was what needed to happen. 

5A in football is basically like 2A in basketball - there's a very narrow enrollment band from top to bottom once the success factor teams are removed (it's like 1.5:1 in both classes). 

 

If my memory holds - the loudest critics of the 5 class system were the "small" 5A's.  John Hart when he was at Evansville Reitz (5A at the time) complained relentlessly about matching up with Ben Davis, Center Grove, and Avon in regionals.  

I would say schools in the 1A-3A really didn't care too much, but the growing 4A's and small 5A's were adamant they should never be expected to compete with Ben Davis and Carmel in the playoffs. 

[crimsonace1]

20 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

If my memory holds - the loudest critics of the 5 class system were the "small" 5A's.  John Hart when he was at Evansville Reitz (5A at the time) complained relentlessly about matching up with Ben Davis, Center Grove, and Avon in regionals.  

I would say schools in the 1A-3A really didn't care too much, but the growing 4A's and small 5A's were adamant they should never be expected to compete with Ben Davis and Carmel in the playoffs. 

They absolutely were. And given there was basically a 4:1 enrollment discrepancy between the top and bottom of the old 5A, they had a legitimate complaint. There hadn't been a state champ from the bottom half of 5A enrollments in years when the split happened in 2013.  

Easiest thing to do politically was split 6A into two. Because if we'd have done a 32-team 1A and a 64-team 5A, now, you'd have the top half of 4A in enrollment howling because they now had to compete with schools like Decatur Central, Valpo, Whiteland and (at the time) Westfield. 

Interestingly, the majority of the 5A champs since the split have been success-factored 4A schools (Cathedral 4x, New Pal 3x). Columbus East was there by enrollment (barely) in 2017 but had also been a success-factored 4A. Arguably the three best 5A teams this year were New Pal, Cathedral and East Central - and all are 4A enrollments. 

[Bobref]

3 hours ago, CoachMack219 said:

Next time you talk to the higher ups, you tell 'em (for me) enough is enough and that coaches (and fans) care WAY more about officials correctly assessing holding, pass interference, facemasks, etc. than we do about our kids knee pads that offer virtually no protection to the patella or surrounding areas anyways or any silly a** arm bands our kids want to wear. Appreciate you and the officials no matter WHAT @Rodney says about you guys! 😂 

The IHSAA is a member organization. Maybe the members ought to be the ones to tell that to the IHSAA. Officials are not members. Coaches are. If coaches are so sick and tired of it, tell someone who can do something about it. Rfaulkens@IHSAA.org. 

[jets]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

The IHSAA is a member organization. Maybe the members ought to be the ones to tell that to the IHSAA. Officials are not members. Coaches are. If coaches are so sick and tired of it, tell someone who can do something about it. Rfaulkens@IHSAA.org. 

That's a nice thought in theory - but trust me - there is a chain-of-command even when it comes to communication. The IHSAA "brass" doesn't want to hear from coaches (per se) - they want to hear from the representatives of the IFCA. If you do try and voice a concern, you'll be met with a cookie cutter "appreciate your thoughts, please pass those along to your IFCA representative at your next meeting." 

And the world goes round and round

[CoachMack219]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

The IHSAA is a member organization. Maybe the members ought to be the ones to tell that to the IHSAA. Officials are not members. Coaches are. If coaches are so sick and tired of it, tell someone who can do something about it. Rfaulkens@IHSAA.org. 

I highly doubt that I'm the first coach/ "member" to complain about the absolute FOOLISHNESS that is officiating knee pads and "drip" more effectively/ efficiently than we officiate the game itself. I'm sure me (a lowly REGION assistant) emailing Mr. Faulkens will get the necessary traction to put an end to this absolute RIDICULOUS issue. 🙄 If I get a reply at all, I'm sure it'll be revolved around some form of a good ole boy club message that says something about "the integrity of the game," "character," or some form of word vomit associated with that reasoning. I'll give it a shot though since you kindly provided me with his email. Maybe I'll fix the problem with a 200 word email, doubt it, but won't know if I don't try. 

14 minutes ago, jets said:

That's a nice thought in theory - but trust me - there is a chain-of-command even when it comes to communication. The IHSAA "brass" doesn't want to hear from coaches (per se) - they want to hear from the representatives of the IFCA. If you do try and voice a concern, you'll be met with a cookie cutter "appreciate your thoughts, please pass those along to your IFCA representative at your next meeting." 

And the world goes round and round

So I SHOULD NOT send that email? Lol 

[gonzoron]

18 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

I highly doubt that I'm the first coach/ "member" to complain about the absolute FOOLISHNESS that is officiating knee pads and "drip" more effectively/ efficiently than we officiate the game itself. I'm sure me (a lowly REGION assistant) emailing Mr. Faulkens will get the necessary traction to put an end to this absolute RIDICULOUS issue.

This a a RIDICULOUS stance. " I'm not going to complain to the person who can do something about it, but I love to hear myself squawk so I'll keep doing that"

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, jets said:

That's a nice thought in theory - but trust me - there is a chain-of-command even when it comes to communication. The IHSAA "brass" doesn't want to hear from coaches (per se) - they want to hear from the representatives of the IFCA. If you do try and voice a concern, you'll be met with a cookie cutter "appreciate your thoughts, please pass those along to your IFCA representative at your next meeting." 

And the world goes round and round

OK, then do that. You’re all members of the IFCA. Get on your representatives. The point is, the officials have no control over it.

Edited December 3, 2025 by Bobref

[Titan32]

6 hours ago, jets said:

OK - as you wish

"Postseason Championship games should ONLY be played on turf fields - no grass fields." 

This kind of goes to Neutral Semi-State sites that have the capacity to handle the crowds and a pressbox to accomdate the media.

[Rodney]

3 hours ago, CoachMack219 said:

I recall something about not needing officials? Among other claims... Lol 

I've never said such a thing

 

only that it would be helpful if we chain them to a light post in the parking lot and make them officiate from there.

[Indiana Native]

6 hours ago, Bobref said:

You’re preaching to the choir. We hate being the uniform police. But we have very strict orders that come from way above my pay grade. So, please don’t blame the officials.

For sure not the fault of the officials on the field.  By saying I'd like to see the officials be granted some relief, that's what I was referring to.  Relief from the directive.  

[Yuccaguy]

39 minutes ago, Indiana Native said:

For sure not the fault of the officials on the field.  By saying I'd like to see the officials be granted some relief, that's what I was referring to.  Relief from the directive.  

I sent ONE Varsity Player off the field this year because of the "uniform situation".  He decided that even though I told him pre-game/at the coin toss/after play began.....That he needed to tuck his jersey directly into his pants with no undershirt exposed and no midriff exposed and have the elastic with his knee pads around his knee caps;  He couldn't do it. 

Funny how that was rectified by somebody on the Coaching staff after he went off the field.  🤣

I ABSOLUTELY told (via pregame email) EVERY school (from the AD, HC to the Assistant AD's) what I expected to see with uniforms once the game began.  Should other crews decide that they are in not in line with the NFHS rules, and other directives....I cannot control that.  

I can tell you at this year's State Finals, it was also patently obvious that some of the crews were not at all concerned about the uniform situation.  I WAS!  And I had 'no issues' with compliance in total.  

If you want "drip"...  Do that pre and post-game.  But during game play you are a part of a TEAM!  Everyone should look basically the same, and in compliance with the rules in place.  

There is no "I" in team!  Seems like that has been said for years, Why now is it looked at as 'passe'? 

Edited December 3, 2025 by Yuccaguy

[CoachMack219]

16 hours ago, CoachMack219 said:

I highly doubt that I'm the first coach/ "member" to complain about the absolute FOOLISHNESS that is officiating knee pads and "drip" more effectively/ efficiently than we officiate the game itself. I'm sure me (a lowly REGION assistant) emailing Mr. Faulkens will get the necessary traction to put an end to this absolute RIDICULOUS issue. 🙄 If I get a reply at all, I'm sure it'll be revolved around some form of a good ole boy club message that says something about "the integrity of the game," "character," or some form of word vomit associated with that reasoning. I'll give it a shot though since you kindly provided me with his email. Maybe I'll fix the problem with a 200 word email, doubt it, but won't know if I don't try.

Reading is important @gonzoron 

[gonzoron]

5 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

Reading is important @gonzoron 

Agreed. Look in the mirror as you're looking up Faulkens number.

[CoachMack219]

5 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Agreed. Look in the mirror as you're looking up Faulkens number.

No need to look up his number. Bobref gave me his email. If I want to be ignored by a higher up, I'll at least take an automated/ standard email reply over a secretary "taking a message." When I look in the mirror, I see too large of a belly but my reading skills are pretty good. 

[Justasportsfan]

15 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

If you want "drip"...  Do that pre and post-game.  But during game play you are a part of a TEAM!  Everyone should look basically the same, and in compliance with the rules in place.  

There is no "I" in team!  Seems like that has been said for years, Why now is it looked at as 'passe'? 

There is one in NIL though! jk..as long as it not a safety concern and the coaches are ok with it...eh..

[PDB26]

5 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

There is one in NIL though! jk..as long as it not a safety concern and the coaches are ok with it...eh..

Big eh so long as there aren’t safety concerns. I suppose it’s possible coaches, generally, like the rules so they don’t have to be the bad guy policing how their players look. 

[CoachDean4758]

43 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

Big eh so long as there aren’t safety concerns. I suppose it’s possible coaches, generally, like the rules so they don’t have to be the bad guy policing how their players look. 

As a coach I don't enjoy the rules and it is for reasons stated prior that they arent enforced universally. It isnt just week to week but ive been to many 6a games and it seems that those rules don't exsist at that level. Consistency is key weather its enforcing the uniform rules or the rules of the game.

[Muda69]

What's next?  Mouthguards left dangling from a facemask or sticking out of the top of a helmet during a play, like in the NFL?

 

[US31]

On 12/3/2025 at 9:53 AM, CoachMack219 said:

1A is probably the right answer to this specific question. Although, after looking at the 5 largest schools in 5A (Valparaiso, Warsaw, Whiteland, Merrillville, and Lafayette Jeff) I don't mind 6A getting the extra school(s) either but I certainly don't think Goshen, South Bend Adams, Chesterton, or Castle should be "forced" up.

 

For the purpose of this exercise if I did this for a 32 team 1A, the 5 smallest 2A schools would be Fremont (283), Pioneer (286), Tecumseh (286), Fountain Central (289), and Northfield (296). 

 32 Team Class 1A Based on Latest IHSAA Football Enrollment Data

1. Cloverdale - 283 (1 Sectional Title)

2. Covington - 281 (0 Postseason Titles)

3. Bowman Academy - 277 (0 Postseason Titles)

4. West Washington - 277 (6 Sectionals, 4 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

5. Triton - 274 (3 Sectional Titles)

6. North Daviess - 273 (2 Sectional Titles)

7. Fort Wayne Blackhawk Christian - 270 (0 Postseason Titles)

8. Clinton Central - 268 (4 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

9. Springs Valley - 266 (4 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

10. South Decatur - 265 (3 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-State, 1 State Title) 1990 Champions

11. North White - 264 (3 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 1994 Champions

12. Southwood - 263 (9 Sectionals, 5 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2002 Champions

13. North Miami - 263 (6 Sectionals, 2 Regionals, 1 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 1993 Champions

14. Purdue Polytechnic (BR) - 262 (0 Postseason Titles)

15. North Central (Farms...) - 257 (2 Sectional Titles)

16. Tri - 256 (4 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

17. Southern Wells - 252 (3 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 1 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2001 Champions

18. Wes-Del - 248 (1 Sectional Title)

19. Culver Community - 246 (4 Sectional Titles)

20. Union City - 244 (0 Postseason Titles)

21. South Newton - 241 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

22. Caston - 241 (0 Postseason Titles)

23. Cambridge City Lincoln - 234 (0 Postseason Titles)

24. Tri-Central - 232 (3 Sectionals, 1 Regional, 1 Semi-State, 1 State Title) 2013 Champions

25. Edinburgh - 227 (0 Postseason Titles)

26. Greenwood Christian Academy - 222 (0 Postseason Titles)

27. Tri-County - 220 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

28. North Vermillion - 218 (7 Sectionals, 3 Regionals, 2 Semi-States, 1 State Title) 2014 Champions

29. West Central - 209 (3 Sectional Titles, 1 Regional Title)

30. Indianapolis Tindley - 202 (0 Postseason Titles)

31. Frontier - 180 (6 Sectional Titles, 2 Regional Titles)

32. Attica - 160 (1 Sectional, 1 Regional, 1 Semi-State, 0 State Titles)

 

I think this class would crown quite a few "new State Champs" and see quite a few more "State Championship game participants" which would help the original goal I referenced in my original post about success factor in that thread. I also think "adding" a Pioneer to this class is more detrimental to these 32 schools than it would be to add 1 Valpo or Warsaw into 6A... Might be changing my answer after this little activity. Lol 

If 1A were to become smallest 32 (as it should), you need to preclude any p/p from being in that class.  

*Cue some small school p/p defenders that are afraid they won't be able to yo-yo down into 1A and grab a pair of blue rings every two years.

[US31]

On 12/3/2025 at 10:18 AM, crimsonace1 said:

 

When schools either decided a) it looked cool, or b) using black with dark-colored numbers made it harder to scout their teams on film. 

Its this....or even during games.  But again....more worried about eye black and shirts tucked in, than something that is actually being used to gain an advantage.

[Muda69]

32 minutes ago, US31 said:

*Cue some small school p/p defenders that are afraid they won't be able to yo-yo down into 1A and grab a pair of blue rings every two years.

 

[Justasportsfan]

59 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

What's next?  Mouthguards left dangling from a facemask or sticking out of the top of a helmet during a play, like in the NFL?

 

Honest question, is that still a penalty? No mouthguard, no play? If they cut it, would anyone be able to tell a player is not wearing one? I also wonder why players stop utilizing them after a certain level..crazy work..

[CoachMack219]

1 hour ago, US31 said:

If 1A were to become smallest 32 (as it should), you need to preclude any p/p from being in that class.  

*Cue some small school p/p defenders that are afraid they won't be able to yo-yo down into 1A and grab a pair of blue rings every two years.

I hear ya. I will say though, by my count, there are only 5 P/P's in the list of 32 teams I have above and they have a combined 0 Postseason Football trophies in their history. If I missed one let me know but I counted... Bowman Academy, Fort Wayne Blackhawk Christian,  Purdue Polytechnic (Broad Ripple)?, Greenwood Christian Academy, and Indianapolis Tindley? The only school I see that COULD fit your scenario would be Indy Lutheran if they were no longer success'd up.