When Victory Formation isn't

[gindie]

Cost a team a Louisiana State Championship.

https://www.outkick.com/sports/high-school-football-team-one-kneel-down-from-state-title-youll-never-guess-what-happened-next

 

[crimsonace1]

Game's not over until the clock hits :00. DON'T REMOVE YOUR HELMET ON THE FIELD. 

[Bobref]

11 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

Game's not over until the clock hits :00. DON'T REMOVE YOUR HELMET ON THE FIELD. 

Good advice. However, just to clear up any possible understanding, the high school rules do not call for an automatic unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for removing the helmet while on the field, as is the case at some other levels.

[coachkj]

14 hours ago, Bobref said:

Good advice. However, just to clear up any possible understanding, the high school rules do not call for an automatic unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for removing the helmet while on the field, as is the case at some other levels.

How about throwing it in the air like the kid did.

[Coach Nowlin]

Easy to throw shade at the player, I get that: 

SHAME ON SHAW coaches........     Staff has to understand and ask questions such as, how many timeouts left, can we still kneel it ?   etc etc.    

[Bobref]

22 minutes ago, coachkj said:

How about throwing it in the air like the kid did.

That’s a foul for unsportsmanlike conduct.

[Bobref]

8 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Easy to throw shade at the player, I get that: 

SHAME ON SHAW coaches........     Staff has to understand and ask questions such as, how many timeouts left, can we still kneel it ?   etc etc.    

Don’t they make charts for that sort of thing?

Saw this happen to a very well known Indiana high school coach in a sectional championship once. Didn’t do the math correctly and had to punt the ball at the end, with the result that the opponent scored a TD as time expired, got the 2 pt. try to tie it, and then won it in OT.

[Coach Nowlin]

Yes, there is those charts on time/ and score/ and when to go for 2 from analytic lens 

I just use my experience and math when we talk about these things on the head set..... then Bossman has final say 

[Bobref]

16 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Yes, there is those charts on time/ and score/ and when to go for 2 from analytic lens 

I just use my experience and math when we talk about these things on the head set..... then Bossman has final say 

The Coach I was referring to was an English teacher. 😂🤣

[jets]

1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Easy to throw shade at the player, I get that: 

SHAME ON SHAW coaches........     Staff has to understand and ask questions such as, how many timeouts left, can we still kneel it ?   etc etc.    

So from just the little I see on the X clip ...there are 34 seconds remaining and it says 1st down when the kids throws his helmet in the air. SO- that penalty really didn't have any bearing in the outcome...the SHAW team had to punt on 4th down with about 20 seconds remaining - so sans to reason the other team still had 3 timeouts and used them. 

What am I missing ?? 

[oldtimeqb]

44 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Yes, there is those charts on time/ and score/ and when to go for 2 from analytic lens 

I just use my experience and math when we talk about these things on the head set..... then Bossman has final say 

I LOVE the 40 second play clock rule during end of game.  No more coaches yelling from the sideline "Blow it in!" 

I also think the end of Seahawks - Colts plays out much differently in HS.  It would be an extremely rare thought process to think "They have a FG here so let's use TO's on defense to save time for offense."  Maybe inside the 20, but even then it's tricky. 

12 minutes ago, jets said:

So from just the little I see on the X clip ...there are 34 seconds remaining and it says 1st down when the kids throws his helmet in the air. SO- that penalty really didn't have any bearing in the outcome...the SHAW team had to punt on 4th down with about 20 seconds remaining - so sans to reason the other team still had 3 timeouts and used them. 

What am I missing ?? 

They only had 2 timeouts.  The unsportsmanlike like penalty was the third stoppage, and thus forced the 4th down.  Time expires after 3rd down play otherwise. 

[Coach Nowlin]

from the article

 

 

Quote

 

Shaw thought they had the game on ice after the first kneel down because St. Charles only had two timeouts left. Easy, right?

Except, some kid threw his helmet in celebration after the first kneel down, and got a flag. Unsportsmanlike. 15 yards. Clock stops. St. Charles gets their timeout back, too. 

The Shaw coaches, from what it appeared, didn't know St. Charles was given their timeout back, so they just keeled the ball on the next two plays. Not great!

They end up punting, it goes awry as these things do in high school football, and St. Charles ends up kicking a 45-yarder to win the whole damn thing. 

 

 

[US31]

21 hours ago, jets said:

So from just the little I see on the X clip ...there are 34 seconds remaining and it says 1st down when the kids throws his helmet in the air. SO- that penalty really didn't have any bearing in the outcome...the SHAW team had to punt on 4th down with about 20 seconds remaining - so sans to reason the other team still had 3 timeouts and used them. 

What am I missing ?? 

That penalty stopped the game clock....effectivley giving the opponent and extra timeout.  Shaw coaches didn't realize this and continued to take knees instead of trying to pick up a 1st down.  

The kid made a mistake...a huge one.  But the loss in on the coaches for mismanaging the clock/timeouts after that penalty.  They still had at least 2 downs to get a new set of downs and then be able to knee it out.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

19 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

from the article

 

 

 

 

Ooof that is a kick in the balls. 

 

@Bobrefwould the refs announce (over the PA system) that the timeout was given back during an IN state game?

 

I am not a coach, but if I were the Shaw coach, and I had a timeout remaining I would have called it to make sure I had all the pertinent info. I know that in times of confusion we forget to collect all the data and this is how games fall apart. The clock was going to stop anyway, use the timeout to gather yourself and make sure that the team is refocused on getting the first down now. 

[Bobref]

13 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

@Bobrefwould the refs announce (over the PA system) that the timeout was given back during an IN state game?

If they had a field mic they would. But regardless, time out information should be communicated to both sidelines.

[jets]

1 hour ago, US31 said:

That penalty stopped the game clock....effectivley giving the opponent and extra timeout.  Shaw coaches didn't realize this and continued to take knees instead of trying to pick up a 1st down.  

The kid made a mistake...a huge one.  But the loss in on the coaches for mismanaging the clock/timeouts after that penalty.  They still had at least 2 downs to get a new set of downs and then be able to knee it out.

Let me see if I can play this out:

34 seconds remaining- 1st down (as show in the clip)-

Run play (a knee)...takes 2 seconds off clock (32 seconds) - penalty called (clock stops)

2nd down- 32 seconds now remain- take a knee (2 seconds off clock - 30 seconds remain) - timeout

3rd down - 30 seconds now remain - take a knee (2 seconds off clock- 28 seconds remain) - timeout

4th down - 28 seconds remain - shank a punt (6 seconds off clock - 22 seconds now remain) - opposing team now has the ball. 

I'm not sure if you actually ran plays (assuming 5 seconds a play)...it plays out any differently. Now, if you get the first time - obviously game over. 

So after my CSI investigation - yes - this falls on the coaches. 

[Coach Nowlin]

34 minutes ago, jets said:

Let me see if I can play this out:

34 seconds remaining- 1st down (as show in the clip)-

Run play (a knee)...takes 2 seconds off clock (32 seconds) - penalty called (clock stops)

2nd down- 32 seconds now remain- take a knee (2 seconds off clock - 30 seconds remain) - timeout

3rd down - 30 seconds now remain - take a knee (2 seconds off clock- 28 seconds remain) - timeout

4th down - 28 seconds remain - shank a punt (6 seconds off clock - 22 seconds now remain) - opposing team now has the ball. 

I'm not sure if you actually ran plays (assuming 5 seconds a play)...it plays out any differently. Now, if you get the first time - obviously game over. 

So after my CSI investigation - yes - this falls on the coaches. 

Exactly:   You do not take Knees unless you can do so running it out completely 

 

[First_Backer_Inside]

This is kind of off topic from this specific game, but goes with end of game scenarios. Can the game end on a safety?

[Bobref]

18 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

This is kind of off topic from this specific game, but goes with end of game scenarios. Can the game end on a safety?

Yes.

[oldtimeqb]

On 12/17/2025 at 10:16 AM, jets said:

Let me see if I can play this out:

34 seconds remaining- 1st down (as show in the clip)-

Run play (a knee)...takes 2 seconds off clock (32 seconds) - penalty called (clock stops)

2nd down- 32 seconds now remain- take a knee (2 seconds off clock - 30 seconds remain) - timeout

3rd down - 30 seconds now remain - take a knee (2 seconds off clock- 28 seconds remain) - timeout

4th down - 28 seconds remain - shank a punt (6 seconds off clock - 22 seconds now remain) - opposing team now has the ball. 

I'm not sure if you actually ran plays (assuming 5 seconds a play)...it plays out any differently. Now, if you get the first time - obviously game over. 

So after my CSI investigation - yes - this falls on the coaches. 

I appreciate your CSI breakdown and will add a bit to it. Also, I will never be convinced taking a knee from shotgun is a good idea. To add to your play-by-play. 

1st Down - Ball is on the +46.  QB kneels down on the -49.  Helmet toss.  15 yard penalty.  

2nd down - ball had to be spotted on the -34.  Two more kneel downs. 

4th down - 4th at 40+ yards from the -23.  Which means they gave up 15+ yards in kneel downs besides the penalty. 

Block/Shank punt is less of an issue if they didn't voluntarily give up that field position. 

One more thing.  Clock stopped at :16.  How does St. Charles gain 5 yards and run two plays in :06 to set up the 3rd and 5 field goal? 

I feel awful for Shaw coaches and players.  But so many things could have gone differently to secure victory.  

[JustRules]

On 12/16/2025 at 11:54 AM, jets said:

So from just the little I see on the X clip ...there are 34 seconds remaining and it says 1st down when the kids throws his helmet in the air. SO- that penalty really didn't have any bearing in the outcome...the SHAW team had to punt on 4th down with about 20 seconds remaining - so sans to reason the other team still had 3 timeouts and used them. 

What am I missing ?? 

They only had 2 time outs remaining. Absent that foul, the other team would have been able to kneel out the game on the 3rd down play. I assume they still took the 2 knees assuming the punt would pin the other team deeper. They did not expect to shank the punt that far. Losing the 5 yards on each kneel down definitely hurt them as well.

[Daniel_Bragg]

On 12/17/2025 at 11:52 AM, Coach Nowlin said:

Exactly:   You do not take Knees unless you can do so running it out completely 

 

This is my biggest issue with the coaches.  Why in God's name are you kneeling when they have timeouts, and there is no possible way for you to run out the clock?