Wedgebuster Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 On 3/25/2021 at 6:36 PM, gonzoron said: Where do you 'run into' this? I teach a Strength and Conditioning class and coach at a Michigan HS. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Liver Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 A public service announcement... the following statements will rub some people the wrong way. Travel ball in some cases gives kids/parents the false perception that little Joey is bound for success at the next level. Some of these so called coaches would not know a fundamental if it smacked them in the face. I have observed this in AAU Basketball for instance kids that can't shoot a proper left handed lay up. They can shoot the three and have that crossover dribble down but don't understand about passing to the open man. I could go on and on but why? Too, too many promises of success at higher levels when they are playing at the lower levels. Why pump hot smoke when the truth should be told. Further, I have seen kids so tired they fall asleep in school because they are exhausted from too many activities. Coaches that operate the travel circuit and coach at the school level telling kids they will not make the school team if they do not come to every open gym and participate in his program. This is absurd there are just so many positions so why lie ? My school of thought is let a kid do whatever he wants to do because HE/SHE makes the choice not your selfish wants and needs. If a kid is a stud, their ability will come out early on. Coach 'em up and see how far they can go; however, don't give little Joey false hope he can be a starter on you Basketball team if he is built like a Noseguard with non-skill abilities. That is just wrong on so many levels. Bottom line its your choice parents, make sure you have little Joey's best interest in mind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Wedgebuster said: I teach a Strength and Conditioning class and coach at a Michigan HS. We don't see that in Central Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgebuster Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 27 minutes ago, gonzoron said: We don't see that in Central Indiana. Don't see strength and conditioning guys coach? Or don't see under trained and overworked kids? Maybe Central Indiana people are as the kids would say "Just Built Different". 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 33 minutes ago, Wedgebuster said: Don't see strength and conditioning guys coach? Don't see large numbers of under trained and overworked kids from excessive travel ball participation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 hours ago, Goose Liver said: A public service announcement... the following statements will rub some people the wrong way. Travel ball in some cases gives kids/parents the false perception that little Joey is bound for success at the next level. Some of these so called coaches would not know a fundamental if it smacked them in the face. I have observed this in AAU Basketball for instance kids that can't shoot a proper left handed lay up. They can shoot the three and have that crossover dribble down but don't understand about passing to the open man. I could go on and on but why? Too, too many promises of success at higher levels when they are playing at the lower levels. Why pump hot smoke when the truth should be told. Further, I have seen kids so tired they fall asleep in school because they are exhausted from too many activities. Coaches that operate the travel circuit and coach at the school level telling kids they will not make the school team if they do not come to every open gym and participate in his program. This is absurd there are just so many positions so why lie ? My school of thought is let a kid do whatever he wants to do because HE/SHE makes the choice not your selfish wants and needs. If a kid is a stud, their ability will come out early on. Coach 'em up and see how far they can go; however, don't give little Joey false hope he can be a starter on you Basketball team if he is built like a Noseguard with non-skill abilities. That is just wrong on so many levels. Bottom line its your choice parents, make sure you have little Joey's best interest in mind. Have not seen this in the three different travel programs that my boys have played in ... the oldest will be playing in a new one this summer as he's too old to play in the one he played in last summer. Coaches have all kept families and kids in mind in scheduling and working out and have continually given parents warning about NOT having kids doing too much outside of practices to make sure that they don't hurt their arms or wear themselves out. Time off around holidays and consultations with families about travel have been the norm. High school coach has encouraged my oldest boy to do something over the summer to keep active, but high school play wasn't condition of doing so. I've heard some horror stories about travel, but haven't experienced it so far with my boys over the programs that we've been part of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 There will always be a shortage of good coaches, just like there will always be a shortage of good officials. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jets Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Maybe I misread the title of this thread?? Are we talking "travel ball" or the shortage of coaches?? I'm not really seeing how the 2 are relevant?? What I have said, time and time again on this forum, is that the demands/expectations of a core classroom teacher are making it more and more difficult to have the time/energy to be the HEAD COACH of a program. When the MIC was hiring coaches, I asked time and time again what the actual "job titles" were for the HC's in the building. Very few answered, but almost all I believe were some sort of strength coach or some "administration" position. There are still some out there, but you'll find very few HC's that still have a core teaching schedule on their plate. Making it such that a classroom teacher NO LONGER wants to be a HC because it's not a realistic option to do both. In my opinion, that's a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaSalle Lions 1976 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 I remember a time where a coach would teach a subject they weren't licensed in order to coach. The most popular subject was special ed. I don't know of one coach who made it more than one year because of all the requirements, especially writing IEP's. If you don't know what you are doing, they can take a long time to finish. During football season, you don't know your Teacher of Record kids, let alone write an IEP for them. Thanks goodness that isn't the trend anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgebuster Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, jets said: Maybe I misread the title of this thread?? Are we talking "travel ball" or the shortage of coaches?? I'm not really seeing how the 2 are relevant?? What I have said, time and time again on this forum, is that the demands/expectations of a core classroom teacher are making it more and more difficult to have the time/energy to be the HEAD COACH of a program. When the MIC was hiring coaches, I asked time and time again what the actual "job titles" were for the HC's in the building. Very few answered, but almost all I believe were some sort of strength coach or some "administration" position. There are still some out there, but you'll find very few HC's that still have a core teaching schedule on their plate. Making it such that a classroom teacher NO LONGER wants to be a HC because it's not a realistic option to do both. In my opinion, that's a problem. Like most problems, this one is multi-faceted. In no particular order, here are some reasons I think coaching shortages are brewing in most places across the country...... #1 Less young males who played HS football entering the teaching ranks #2 More requirements of classroom teachers that make it difficult to coach #3 Coaches frustrated with travel sports based problems, and schools devaluing education based athletics because in part of travel sports leading to sport specialization and lower participation in traditional school based athletics. #4 Coaches feeling like their program needs so much year round attention that they no longer feel that they can coach multiple sports 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Liver Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 hours ago, foxbat said: Have not seen this in the three different travel programs that my boys have played in ... the oldest will be playing in a new one this summer as he's too old to play in the one he played in last summer. Coaches have all kept families and kids in mind in scheduling and working out and have continually given parents warning about NOT having kids doing too much outside of practices to make sure that they don't hurt their arms or wear themselves out. Time off around holidays and consultations with families about travel have been the norm. High school coach has encouraged my oldest boy to do something over the summer to keep active, but high school play wasn't condition of doing so. I've heard some horror stories about travel, but haven't experienced it so far with my boys over the programs that we've been part of. You are on the lucky side of the tally sheet.... too many pushy people with their own agendas gives the whole program a black eye. Sports are very important in many different ways and if a kid can participate in a positive manner then it is a win win situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Liver Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 28 minutes ago, Wedgebuster said: Like most problems, this one is multi-faceted. In no particular order, here are some reasons I think coaching shortages are brewing in most places across the country...... #1 Less young males who played HS football entering the teaching ranks #2 More requirements of classroom teachers that make it difficult to coach #3 Coaches frustrated with travel sports based problems, and schools devaluing education based athletics because in part of travel sports leading to sport specialization and lower participation in traditional school based athletics. #4 Coaches feeling like their program needs so much year round attention that they no longer feel that they can coach multiple sports I will propose this question: How do schools improve coach retention ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 10 hours ago, foxbat said: Have not seen this in the three different travel programs that my boys have played in ... the oldest will be playing in a new one this summer as he's too old to play in the one he played in last summer. Coaches have all kept families and kids in mind in scheduling and working out and have continually given parents warning about NOT having kids doing too much outside of practices to make sure that they don't hurt their arms or wear themselves out. Time off around holidays and consultations with families about travel have been the norm. High school coach has encouraged my oldest boy to do something over the summer to keep active, but high school play wasn't condition of doing so. I've heard some horror stories about travel, but haven't experienced it so far with my boys over the programs that we've been part of. This is the norm for the vast majority of participants, families and programs. I too have heard horror stories about travel, but they haven't come from anyone I've met or seen personally, so I just consider them as what they are, stories by those with an anti-travel agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 This is a football message board. So it comes as no surprise to me that there is a bias against travel sports, because it's always football that loses out. Like clockwork, every mid to late June I anticipate a week where our QB can't throw because he pitched 14 innings between Friday-Sunday the weekend before. This has happened with multiple QBs over multiple years, so it wasn't a one-time occurrence. As soon as HS baseball season ends, they join their respective travel teams where the coach is more concerned with how many trophies he can post on social media to recruit the next group than the longevity of the player's arm. 1 hour ago, gonzoron said: This is the norm for the vast majority of participants, families and programs. I too have heard horror stories about travel, but they haven't come from anyone I've met or seen personally, so I just consider them as what they are, stories by those with an anti-travel agenda. Would you expect someone to say "That $1,200 we spent on our club volleyball team last summer was a waste of money"? My co-worker told me the first part, but then her daughter got cut from the HS volleyball team. So I interpreted the last part, but that might be presumptuous of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said: Like clockwork, every mid to late June I anticipate a week where our QB can't throw because he pitched 14 innings between Friday-Sunday the weekend before. You have football practice in late June? Is this in Indiana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, gonzoron said: You have football practice in late June? Is this in Indiana? yes, HH does not? Unlimited Shirt and shorts 12 Sessions with Pro Pads on of which 5 can be with another school Only week off limits is Fourth of July week Of course school cannot make it mandatory Unless you are being coy with use of the word practice........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody_Hayes Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Goose Liver said: I will propose this question: How do schools improve coach retention ? Some things that I think help: 1. The longer you are at a school, the easier it is to fill positions with young guys interested in coaching who played in your system and live in the community. These guys are usually in for the long term. Bonus is they already know and believe in the culture. 2. Don’t micro-manage your coaches. If you give them a job, let them do their thing. 3. Take responsibility when you screw up, and apologize when you do (this goes a long way with players too) 4. Give credit when and where it’s due. 5. Don’t waste their time. Don’t have meetings when phone calls, texts, emails will do. 6. As a head coach, don’t take your too seriously. You hear horror stories about certain HCs and their egos. I couldn’t coach for someone like that. 7. Take over for some of the crappy tasks that no one wants to do. Hope this is helpful. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgebuster Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 4 hours ago, Goose Liver said: I will propose this question: How do schools improve coach retention ? #1 Hire people that will coach. These teachers will have a better connection with the kids and get more accomplished in the classroom anyway. Good coaches are typically good teachers as coaching is teaching. #2. Give coaches a "manageable schedule". They bring value to the building and community after school, so have them teach less different classes to prep for. Don't ask them to teach AP or classes that have heavy planning and grading loads, etc. When other teachers complain, stand up for the fact that they coach and its valued. #3. Pay stipends that allow folks to coach without feeling like they inflicting financial hardship on their family. Lots of teachers have a "side hustle" and when those pay significantly better than coaching, it makes explaining the choice to coach to your family much more difficult. More thoughts to come later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody_Hayes Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 3 hours ago, gonzoron said: This is the norm for the vast majority of participants, families and programs. I too have heard horror stories about travel, but they haven't come from anyone I've met or seen personally, so I just consider them as what they are, stories by those with an anti-travel agenda. My daughters have played travel volleyball for years. The program they’re in now is coached by high school coaches in Illinois. They do an awesome job getting the girls ready for their high school seasons. Most of the coaches from other teams that I observe at tournaments also do a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 46 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: yes, HH does not? Unlimited Shirt and shorts 12 Sessions with Pro Pads on of which 5 can be with another school Only week off limits is Fourth of July week Of course school cannot make it mandatory Unless you are being coy with use of the word practice........ I honestly don't remember. I do know that there is no travel basketball for girls during June in Indiana, I don't know much about boys travel sports. I'm just having an issue seeing how travel sports impacts a coaching shortage. This doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 51 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: Of course school cannot make it mandatory So there is possible conflict with other sports which the athlete has chosen to pursue in the football off season. Still not sure how this contributes to a coaching shortage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jets Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 35 minutes ago, Wedgebuster said: #1 Hire people that will coach. These teachers will have a better connection with the kids and get more accomplished in the classroom anyway. Good coaches are typically good teachers as coaching is teaching. #2. Give coaches a "manageable schedule". They bring value to the building and community after school, so have them teach less different classes to prep for. Don't ask them to teach AP or classes that have heavy planning and grading loads, etc. When other teachers complain, stand up for the fact that they coach and its valued. #3. Pay stipends that allow folks to coach without feeling like they inflicting financial hardship on their family. Lots of teachers have a "side hustle" and when those pay significantly better than coaching, it makes explaining the choice to coach to your family much more difficult. More thoughts to come later. THIS!!!!! Spot on. Very well said. I can't "like" this enough!!! I don't know how many 8-3 teachers we have in the building anymore, but it is a lot. Can't say I blame them sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, gonzoron said: I honestly don't remember. I do know that there is no travel basketball for girls during June in Indiana, I don't know much about boys travel sports. I'm just having an issue seeing how travel sports impacts a coaching shortage. This doesn't make sense. 1 hour ago, gonzoron said: So there is possible conflict with other sports which the athlete has chosen to pursue in the football off season. Still not sure how this contributes to a coaching shortage. talkign 2 different stuff Travel club sports VS Hamilton Heights High School summer sport sessions for lets say, your son's football team and your daughters basketball team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 42 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: talkign 2 different stuff Travel club sports VS Hamilton Heights High School summer sport sessions for lets say, your son's football team and your daughters basketball team Nope. I'm talking about things that were brought up earlier in this thread about the evils of travel sports as it related to coaching shortages. I see no relationship, but several others do. Read the other posts in the thread, before jumping in to try to denigrate mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Nope. I'm talking about things that were brought up earlier in this thread about the evils of travel sports as it related to coaching shortages. I see no relationship, but several others do. Read the other posts in the thread, before jumping in to try to denigrate mine. haha ok pal Not what I was doing, but ok 4 hours ago, gonzoron said: You have football practice in late June? Is this in Indiana? MOST SPECIFICALLY ^^^^^^^^^ that is what I was responding to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.