oldtimeqb Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 13 hours ago, Grover said: 1975 CG Trojans went 10-0 but didn't make the playoffs. Out of curiosity, what was the size of CG back then? I find it fascinating to look back at some of the record books and see places like Zionsville and Westfield as 2A and 3A schools. And 1975 wasn't that long ago... at least IMO. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said: Out of curiosity, what was the size of CG back then? I find it fascinating to look back at some of the record books and see places like Zionsville and Westfield as 2A and 3A schools. And 1975 wasn't that long ago... at least IMO. LOL No idea of enrollment but it was still pretty small. Most of today's subdivisions were still cornfields in '75. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 I didn't recognize Westfield as an Indy suburban school until after 2010 sometime when they played Snider for the first time. Before then I viewed them as a small town school . I imagine I'm right, as Indy grew to them. It's comparable to how Fort Wayne grew toward Carroll and Homestead. They were considered the country kids in the 80's and 90's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, BTF said: I didn't recognize Westfield as an Indy suburban school until after 2010 sometime when they played Snider for the first time. Before then I viewed them as a small town school . I imagine I'm right, as Indy grew to them. It's comparable to how Fort Wayne grew toward Carroll and Homestead. They were considered the country kids in the 80's and 90's. Accurate. Indy schools didn’t really take suburban schools seriously until the 2010’s…they were rarely given a reason to. Edited April 10, 2022 by temptation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Baker Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 5 hours ago, oldtimeqb said: Out of curiosity, what was the size of CG back then? I find it fascinating to look back at some of the record books and see places like Zionsville and Westfield as 2A and 3A schools. And 1975 wasn't that long ago... at least IMO. LOL Back in the days of your, Westfields, HSE and Lawrenceburgs were 1A schools. I swear to God they were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 6 hours ago, Donnie Baker said: Back in the days of your, Westfields, HSE and Lawrenceburgs were 1A schools. I swear to God they were Lawrenceburg was the first 1A state champ in modern history back in 1975. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 6 hours ago, foxbat said: Lawrenceburg was the first 1A state champ in modern history back in 1975. That was actually the 3rd year of the post season. Mishawaka Marian was the 1st 1A champ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakone Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Irishman said: That was actually the 3rd year of the post season. Mishawaka Marian was the 1st 1A champ. That year 1a sized Luers was forced to play in 3a, the largest class at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 1 minute ago, jakone said: That year 1a sized Luers was forced to play in 3a, the largest class at the time. yep. In Indy, Scecina was 3A as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Irishman said: That was actually the 3rd year of the post season. Mishawaka Marian was the 1st 1A champ. I just realized that. Must of hit the scroll wheel in the load. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmp52 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 23 hours ago, oldtimeqb said: Out of curiosity, what was the size of CG back then? I find it fascinating to look back at some of the record books and see places like Zionsville and Westfield as 2A and 3A schools. And 1975 wasn't that long ago... at least IMO. LOL My best guess would be around 900 to 1100 my mom graduated with around 230in her class in 69. also fun fact about that team and year they did not play a home game. because the new stadium hat not been finished yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted April 11, 2022 Author Share Posted April 11, 2022 20 hours ago, temptation said: Accurate. Indy schools didn’t really take suburban schools seriously until the 2010’s…they were rarely given a reason to. I honestly knew nothing about Hamilton Southeastern until 2005. Probably because they were in one of the smaller classes prior to that. I see that they had some successful teams in the 90's. When they did reach the "big boy club", it looks like it took 4-5 years to overcome Carmel for the right to play a Fort Wayne team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 2 hours ago, BTF said: I honestly knew nothing about Hamilton Southeastern until 2005. Probably because they were in one of the smaller classes prior to that. I see that they had some successful teams in the 90's. When they did reach the "big boy club", it looks like it took 4-5 years to overcome Carmel for the right to play a Fort Wayne team. HSE got over the MIC/Indy hump a couple of times prior to the 2010s as did Avon. The real breakthrough was obviously Fishers over LC in 2010 at LOS, though it has not been duplicated on a state level since. I really thought the 2015 Avon team that lost a heartbreaker in the semi-state at CG was the next one to do it. As I have mentioned elsewhere, teams have continued to breakthrough in the regular season but will not be taken completely seriously until they do it regularly in late October or November. CG is the great wild card here. They are a suburban school that gets lumped in with the Indy school just due to their prior MIC affiliation. Carmel too really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 23 hours ago, temptation said: Accurate. Indy schools didn’t really take suburban schools seriously until the 2010’s…they were rarely given a reason to. Carmel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Carmel? Glad to see you back. Carmel’s mega school status has gotten them lumped in with Indy schools since the formation of the MIC in the mid 90s. HSE (eventually Fishers too), CG and Avon were about a decade later and Westfield and Brownsburg roughly a decade after that. Currently, Zionsville and Whiteland are next in line. Edited April 11, 2022 by temptation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, temptation said: Glad to see you back. Carmel’s mega school status has gotten them lumped in with Indy schools since the formation of the MIC in the mid 90s. HSE (eventually Fishers too), CG and Avon were about a decade later and Westfield and Brownsburg roughly a decade after that. Currently, Zionsville and Whiteland are next in line. Hmmm. I was in high school from 04-08 and definitely lumped Carmel in with the other Hamilton County schools before I associated them with the Ben Davis' and Warren Central's of the world, regardless of conference affiliation. HSE had well over 3k kids when they split after the 06-07 school year and would have been considered a mega-school enrollment back then. Edited April 11, 2022 by Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted April 11, 2022 Author Share Posted April 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Hmmm. I was in high school from 04-08 and definitely lumped Carmel in with the other Hamilton County schools before I associated them with the Ben Davis' and Warren Central's of the world, regardless of conference affiliation. HSE had well over 3k kids when they split after the 06-07 school year and would have been considered a mega-school enrollment back then. Maybe it depends on where you reside in the state. Up here in Fort Wayne, we've considered Carmel an Indy team all the way back in the 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 1 minute ago, BTF said: Maybe it depends on where you reside in the state. Up here in Fort Wayne, we've considered Carmel an Indy team all the way back in the 80's. Lived right on the Hamilton/Marion Co border. Always considered Carmel a suburban school, HSE and Noblesville were all big 5A enrollment schools within Hamilton Co. Hell I considered both Lawrence Schools and North Central suburban schools back then, though it has definitely changed in the last 10 years. Carmel has almost always gone north in the state tournament in every sport and is almost always in sectionals with their Hamilton Co brethren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 On 4/9/2022 at 4:14 PM, Irishman said: and then in the cluster, Penn and Elkhart Central, I believe were in the same and played first game of the season. Winner of that game basically made the playoffs while the loser had no chance. In the first year of the cluster, we ended up in a 3 way tie between us (WC), Lawrence North and Perry Meridian. The tie breakers were all OT segments; put the ball on the 10 and you have 4 downs to score. A coin flip determined the first two teams to face off, so we faced LN. It was cold and raining all week; this was a Wednesday night with the sectional against Washington to be played Friday. We matched scores in round 1 with LN. They scored first in round 2, and we got to 4th down. We had a TE wide open in the middle just inside the goal line. George slipped as he threw and it one hopped. We were done. Next PM comes out, fumbles first play and LN recovers. LN kicks a FG on their first play and wins. They lost to a REALLY good Washington team that Friday night. Washington made it to the State final, and lost to Penn. The cluster tie breaker OT one set of downs mid-week to get into the sectional two days later is the type of brainstorming scheme that only the IHSAA could have invented. In that masterplan, the season finale also played mid-week both cluster years. Coach Springer's Indy Washington team was really, really good (both 83 and 84). Seemed like true outsiders with little Indy media coverage and then pummeled North Central and Lars Tate (who got all the press coverage) in the regional. the last great Indy city public team. And they were undersized. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, ragdoll said: The cluster tie breaker OT one set of downs mid-week to get into the sectional two days later is the type of brainstorming scheme that only the IHSAA could have invented. In that masterplan, the season finale also played mid-week both cluster years. Coach Springer's Indy Washington team was really, really good (both 83 and 84). Seemed like true outsiders with little Indy media coverage and then pummeled North Central and Lars Tate (who got all the press coverage) in the regional. the last great Indy city public team. And they were undersized. They were good. We played them in sectionals in 84, and only beat them by 2. They had no one who could really kick, so they went for 2 each time they scored.....and missed each time. A couple years later, I was able to spend some time talking football with Coach Springer. What a great experience that was. Long after he retired, he and my uncle were regulars at the OTB in Indy and were good friends going back to their HS days. I always enjoyed chatting with him when I would meet them there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Footballking16 said: Lived right on the Hamilton/Marion Co border. Always considered Carmel a suburban school, HSE and Noblesville were all big 5A enrollment schools within Hamilton Co. Hell I considered both Lawrence Schools and North Central suburban schools back then, though it has definitely changed in the last 10 years. Carmel has almost always gone north in the state tournament in every sport and is almost always in sectionals with their Hamilton Co brethren. Some truth here but those schools didn’t deserve to be spoken in the same breath with Carmel (they actually still don’t in my opinion). Gotta beat em occasionally. Hell, Carmel even took them off the schedule as time went on. They and CG get the benefit of the doubt due to their trophy cases. They are Indy schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Baker Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 4/11/2022 at 9:23 AM, Irishman said: yep. In Indy, Scecina was 3A as well. Why was Lures and Scecinas put in 3A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Donnie Baker said: Why was Lures and Scecinas put in 3A? I am not sure what their enrollment was back then, but similar to what we saw when there were just 5 classes. There was a HUGE enrollment difference from the top school in 5A and the last school in it. I believe that the IHSAA has always divided classes based solely on enrollment. Keep in mind too that in 1973, when this started, there were not many consolidated schools. So, there were a lot of rural schools that were relatively small. With Scecina, I believe the Archdiocese wanted to keep potential enrollment about the same for the 4 deanery schools. So they looked at the population of the various parishes to accommodate that. Interestingly, Ritter was 1A back then....and won a State title back then....late 70's. I believe it was 79. They did not have a great record, but the points they earned for wins were all against 3A schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Irishman said: I am not sure what their enrollment was back then, but similar to what we saw when there were just 5 classes. There was a HUGE enrollment difference from the top school in 5A and the last school in it. I believe that the IHSAA has always divided classes based solely on enrollment. Keep in mind too that in 1973, when this started, there were not many consolidated schools. So, there were a lot of rural schools that were relatively small. With Scecina, I believe the Archdiocese wanted to keep potential enrollment about the same for the 4 deanery schools. So they looked at the population of the various parishes to accommodate that. Interestingly, Ritter was 1A back then....and won a State title back then....late 70's. I believe it was 79. They did not have a great record, but the points they earned for wins were all against 3A schools. Despite the narratives that we sometimes see on GID about the P/Ps, sometimes those enrollments do indeed drop based on demand. Scecina was 2A for a bit, having won titles back-to-back if I recall correctly, but then numbers put them below the 2A cutoff. They petitioned to remain in 2A for a few years, but then finally went back down into 1A before seeing enrollments climb enough to put them in 2A ... albeit after being SF'd out of 1A. Back in the early 1990s, the Bishop had actually announced the closing of LCC due to waning enrollments and support after a bit over 30 years of operation. An 11th-hour appeal convinced him to keep the doors open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 1 minute ago, foxbat said: Despite the narratives that we sometimes see on GID about the P/Ps, sometimes those enrollments do indeed drop based on demand. Scecina was 2A for a bit, having won titles back-to-back if I recall correctly, but then numbers put them below the 2A cutoff. They petitioned to remain in 2A for a few years, but then finally went back down into 1A before seeing enrollments climb enough to put them in 2A ... albeit after being SF'd out of 1A. Back in the early 1990s, the Bishop had actually announced the closing of LCC due to waning enrollments and support after a bit over 30 years of operation. An 11th-hour appeal convinced him to keep the doors open. The interesting ripple effect of that petition is that Seeger was the smallest 2A, so when Scecina was moved up, Seeger moved to 1A..............and went to back to back State title games, winning one and losing one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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