FastpacedO Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 3 hours ago, DT said: I am not a coach and never have been. My point all along is that these specific highly successful Private School coaches chose these unsuccessful public school programs thinking they could turn them around and make them successful. None of them achieved that objective. Ever think maybe that is not the whole reason they went there? They are educators too. I would say year 1 (3-8), year 2 (5-7), year 3 (6-4), and year 4 (7-4) is a turn around in the right direction. That was one coach. Another year 1 (3-7), year 2 (9-3), year 3 (6-4), year 4 (6-4) year 5 (1-9). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 3 hours ago, DT said: I am not a coach and never have been. My point all along is that these specific highly successful Private School coaches chose these unsuccessful public school programs thinking they could turn them around and make them successful. None of them achieved that objective. beating my head against the wall now....sigh..... Mark Haste was NOT from a private school. He built a highly successful state championship program at Tri-West. He then went to NC and experienced similar results as Streiff and O'Shea. It is NOT just a private school thing with NC....it has to be deeper with football. Feeder systems, football culture, transfers out, etc. This is a case with highly successful high school coaches going to NC and not having the same type of results as their previous school. (in terms of wins/losses and playoff success) I know we all like simple, but this case is not as simple to single out private school coaches. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said: beating my head against the wall now....sigh..... Mark Haste was NOT from a private school. He built a highly successful state championship program at Tri-West. He then went to NC and experienced similar results as Streiff and O'Shea. It is NOT just a private school thing with NC....it has to be deeper with football. Feeder systems, football culture, transfers out, etc. This is a case with highly successful high school coaches going to NC and not having the same type of results as their previous school. (in terms of wins/losses and playoff success) I know we all like simple, but this case is not as simple to single out private school coaches. I'm not talking about Mark haste or any other public school coach. This topic all along has been about PP to public transition. Dilley, Strieff, o'shea,. All Hall of Fame caliber PP coaches. All mediocre results on the public side. It's really a black and white issue. No need to color it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 50 minutes ago, DT said: I'm not talking about Mark haste or any other public school coach. This topic all along has been about PP to public transition. Dilley, Strieff, o'shea,. All Hall of Fame caliber PP coaches. All mediocre results on the public side. It's really a black and white issue. No need to color it He's clearly illustrating there are massive roadblocks that HoF caliber coaches can't overcome at North Central. It has nothing to do with transitioning from a private or a public school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: He's clearly illustrating there are massive roadblocks that HoF caliber coaches can't overcome at North Central. It has nothing to do with transitioning from a private or a public school. Dilley, Streiff and O'Shea were all very big fish in very small ponds when coaching PPs. They became small fish in very large ponds when they jumped into the MIC Meatgrinder. It has everything to do with transitioning from PP to public. You're even more clueless than he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, DT said: Dilley, Streiff and O'Shea were all very big fish in very small ponds when coaching PPs. They became small fish in very large ponds when they jumped into the MIC Meatgrinder. It has everything to do with transitioning from PP to public. You're even more clueless than he is. If Dilley, O'Shea, or Streiff went to say Ben Davis or Carmel does that change your outlook? Dick Dullaghan went from Bishop Chatard to Carmel and then to Ben Davis and was widely successful. It has absolutely nothing to do with transitioning from P/P to Public and everything to do with the school in which they transitioned too. Show me a coach, regardless if he came from a public or private institution, that has been successful at either North Central or Lawrence North...ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, DT said: Dilley, Streiff and O'Shea were all very big fish in very small ponds when coaching PPs. They became small fish in very large ponds when they jumped into the MIC Meatgrinder. It has everything to do with transitioning from PP to public. You're even more clueless than he is. yet somehow the recent coaches that have failed to turn Pike around didn't come from private schools. Jimmy Graves or Pat Echeverria couldn't turn around that program and neither were private school football coaches. Echeverria took a Eastern Hancock team to the state championship, and yet had a 5-25 record during his 3 years at Pike. You want to try and make some correlation between regarding private school coaches and lack of success at schools that historically have subpar football programs, knock yourself out. But my point is that as many, if not more formerly successful public school coaches have experienced the same lack of success at the same or similar programs when trying to turn them around. Don't get overly flustered with someone disagrees with your half-cocked theories based on your lack of comprehension of basic statistical principles. Considering the source, I'll take your immature comment as a compliment. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Mayes was a heck of a player at ND. NC has had many really good teams despite not having the postseason accolades due to the fact that often they have faced the toughest competition in the state in the postseason and those other teams have gone on to multiple state championships. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: If Dilley, O'Shea, or Streiff went to say Ben Davis or Carmel does that change your outlook? Dick Dullaghan went from Bishop Chatard to Carmel and then to Ben Davis and was widely successful. It has absolutely nothing to do with transitioning from P/P to Public and everything to do with the school in which they transitioned too. Show me a coach, regardless if he came from a public or private institution, that has been successful at either North Central or Lawrence North...ever. Ever heard of Doug Reeser or Al Harants or George Pappas? Do some research. Just because your young and arrogant does not excuse you from being stupid and lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Just now, DT said: Just because your young and arrogant does not excuse you from being stupid and lazy. *you're* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said: yet somehow the recent coaches that have failed to turn Pike around didn't come from private schools. Jimmy Graves or Pat Echeverria couldn't turn around that program and neither were private school football coaches. Echeverria took a Eastern Hancock team to the state championship, and yet had a 5-25 record during his 3 years at Pike. You want to try and make some correlation between regarding private school coaches and lack of success at schools that historically have subpar football programs, knock yourself out. But my point is that as many, if not more formerly successful public school coaches have experienced the same lack of success at the same or similar programs when trying to turn them around. Don't get overly flustered with someone disagrees with your half-cocked theories based on your lack of comprehension of basic statistical principles. Considering the source, I'll take your immature comment as a compliment. Let me know when Graves and Echeverria receive their Hall of Fame plaques. You really going to group those two together with the Blessed Trinity of Dilley, Streiff and O'Shea? Blasphemy! 2 minutes ago, gonzoron said: *you're* Another milestone contribution . You're a legend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, DT said: Another milestone contribution . You're welcome. 22 minutes ago, DT said: You're a legend You're correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piratefan101 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 On 7/20/2022 at 6:17 PM, Bears62 said: Does Crown Point return a lot or what? I would be pretty surprised to see them beat whoever comes out of sectional 2, if CP were to even win their sectional (I don’t think they will). Crown point has a lot of talent returning. They started using underclass me. To start late in season. And they scrimmaged teams from Illinois all summer. Big schools like boilingbrook. They don’t have speed outside of there RB. But coach has taught them to play no penalty football. And that are extremely fundamental sound. And I hate saying that being a pirate. They have probably the best coaching staff in state I believe they have 8-9 former head coaches on 1 staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears62 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, Piratefan101 said: Crown point has a lot of talent returning. They started using underclass me. To start late in season. And they scrimmaged teams from Illinois all summer. Big schools like boilingbrook. They don’t have speed outside of there RB. But coach has taught them to play no penalty football. And that are extremely fundamental sound. And I hate saying that being a pirate. They have probably the best coaching staff in state I believe they have 8-9 former head coaches on 1 staff Good to know, thanks. Don’t know if they will have the athletes to take down Jeff, but should be a good game. Can’t see either of those teams beating whoever comes out of sectional 2 though. I am happy that one of those teams will get a sectional to their name with Merrillville out of the picture. Both have solid programs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 17 hours ago, ragdoll said: Mayes was a heck of a player at ND. NC has had many really good teams despite not having the postseason accolades due to the fact that often they have faced the toughest competition in the state in the postseason and those other teams have gone on to multiple state championships. and forgot to include the great Duane Gunn who was one of the best receivers in IU history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonace1 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, ragdoll said: and forgot to include the great Duane Gunn who was one of the best receivers in IU history. The reality is, many of those top players from North Central 30-40 years ago would likely be at Carmel or Cathedral/Chatard today. North Central got hit *hard* by out-migration (primarily to Carmel) much earlier than the other township schools did. The Lawrence schools probably were next (primarily to HSE, but Mt. Vernon is now getting a lot of ex-Lawrence kids), and then Pike/BD (to Zionsville/Brownsburg/Avon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Central Warrior Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 5 hours ago, crimsonace1 said: The reality is, many of those top players from North Central 30-40 years ago would likely be at Carmel or Cathedral/Chatard today. North Central got hit *hard* by out-migration (primarily to Carmel) much earlier than the other township schools did. The Lawrence schools probably were next (primarily to HSE, but Mt. Vernon is now getting a lot of ex-Lawrence kids), and then Pike/BD (to Zionsville/Brownsburg/Avon). What about Warren Central? When did it start having out-migration problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonace1 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, Warren Central Warrior said: What about Warren Central? When did it start having out-migration problems? There is a significant number of ex-Warren (and Franklin) Township families at New Pal & Mt. Vernon but the volume hasn't quite been as large as Lawrence-> HSE, North Central-> Carmel, BD->Avon and Pike->Brownsburg/Zionsville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballFan28 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, crimsonace1 said: There is a significant number of ex-Warren (and Franklin) Township families at New Pal & Mt. Vernon but the volume hasn't quite been as large as Lawrence-> HSE, North Central-> Carmel, BD->Avon and Pike->Brownsburg/Zionsville. I think the CB and Rb at Franklin Central are from Warren originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonace1 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 6 hours ago, FootballFan28 said: I think the CB and Rb at Franklin Central are from Warren originally. Did they move with Jayson West? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballFan28 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 5 hours ago, crimsonace1 said: Did they move with Jayson West? The year before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piratefan101 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 On 7/22/2022 at 9:53 PM, Bears62 said: Good to know, thanks. Don’t know if they will have the athletes to take down Jeff, but should be a good game. Can’t see either of those teams beating whoever comes out of sectional 2 though. I am happy that one of those teams will get a sectional to their name with Merrillville out of the picture. Both have solid programs This year you may be right with no one getting by Elkhart. But I do think CP will become the new Penn here shortly and take over the regional for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 7/22/2022 at 4:08 PM, Guest said: Let me know when Graves and Echeverria receive their Hall of Fame plaques. You really going to group those two together with the Blessed Trinity of Dilley, Streiff and O'Shea? Blasphemy! Another milestone contribution . You're a legend Nope but you seem to miss the point. It is not the coaches or them coming from P/P to Public when it comes to North Central and Lawrence North. It's the landscape of where those 2 schools sit in present day. Heck 2 of the coaches you named coached from 1976-1994 and 1971-1991 (1 at LN and 1 at NC) the other from 1992-2002 (at NC posting pretty much the same 6-4 or 7-4 records the last 8 years of his career there). It's more to do with Lawrence North and North Central than it is the coaches that have been and currently are coaching there. Heck somebody already brought up Coach Dullaghan whom coached at Chatard prior to Carmel then Ben Davis. There is also Bob Springer who coached at Sacred Heart and then Indianapolis Washington (he had a lot of success at Washington until the flight of students players to Ben Davis. Present day landscapes aren't the same as the past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilernation Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 7/24/2022 at 8:16 AM, Piratefan101 said: This year you may be right with no one getting by Elkhart. But I do think CP will become the new Penn here shortly and take over the regional for years to come. Why are you so high on Elkhart? They went 5-5 last year, lost their HC, and they're new coach's only experience is at Peru. Penn, Carroll, and Warsaw will all be formidable foes for Elkhart in Sectional 2. Curious to know what you're hearing or seeing to be so bullish on Elkhart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyButt Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 On 7/23/2022 at 6:24 PM, FootballFan28 said: I think the CB and Rb at Franklin Central are from Warren originally. RB moved before his freshman year. CB also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.