Roncalli vs Shortridge and other clearly lopsided sectional games

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Good thing no one is making that claim lmao. Keep constructing strawmen so that you can knock them down.

Hope it makes you feel better about yourself. This is getting sad. 

I’ve yet to hear a soundproof argument that regular season results matter.

Better?

[Footballking16]

12 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Good thing no one is making that claim lmao. Keep constructing strawmen so that you can knock them down.

Hope it makes you feel better about yourself. This is getting sad. 

I mean seriously, two conference champions (Brownsburg and Ben Davis) aren’t going to win a tournament game while two bottom feeder teams (Pike and Avon) are going to play for a sectional championship.

And the regular season (and winning a conference championship) actually has meaning?

GTFOH

Edited October 13, 2022 by Footballking16

[Footballking16]

8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I mean seriously, two conference champions (Brownsburg and Ben Davis) aren’t going to win a tournament game while two bottom feeder teams (Pike and Avon) are going to play for a sectional championship.

And the regular season (and winning a conference championship) actually has meaning?

GTFOH

@scarab527 I’ll take your non-response as much. You don’t have one. There’s nothing to say. I get it.

Make it make sense.

[scarab527]

11 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I mean seriously, two conference champions (Brownsburg and Ben Davis) aren’t going to win a tournament game while two bottom feeder teams (Pike and Avon) are going to play for a sectional championship.

And the regular season (and winning a conference championship) actually has meaning?

GTFOH

Oh no, one team isn’t going to get to win the one playoff game they otherwise would have. What an absolute tragedy. How will they ever recover from this great injustice? 

If all you’re judging is postseason success then even with a qualifier you could say the regular season results don’t matter at the end of the day. 

Get off the internet and go get a breath of fresh air. You’ve been posting constantly on this thread for days now and clearly you’re very mad lmao. It really isn’t that big of a deal and you better get used to it because the IHSAA doesn’t seem like they’re going to change it anytime soon. 

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

@scarab527 I’ll take your non-response as much. You don’t have one. There’s nothing to say. I get it.

Make it make sense.

Oh no, I had one. Calm down, son. It’ll be alright. 
 

Just show me on the doll where the all-in format hurt you. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by scarab527

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Oh no, one team isn’t going to get to win the one playoff game they otherwise would have. What an absolute tragedy. How will they ever recover from this great injustice? 

If all you’re judging is postseason success then even with a qualifier you could say the regular season results don’t matter at the end of the day. 

Get off the internet and go get a breath of fresh air. You’ve been posting constantly on this thread for days now and clearly you’re very mad lmao. It really isn’t that big of a deal and you better get used to it because the IHSAA doesn’t seem like they’re going to change it anytime soon. 

Oh no, I had one. Calm down, son. It’ll be alright. 
 

Just show me on the doll where the all-in format hurt you. 

Mad? Nah. Trying to make a difference? Maybe.

I’m a sports fan. Period. The All-in, blind draw is an injustice to competition. You won’t change my mind.

Make it make sense.

[scarab527]

11 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You won’t change my mind.

Make it make sense.

“You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.”

[Footballking16]

Just now, scarab527 said:

“You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.”

Same boat, same water brother.

I don’t get it.

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

At the end of the day, the final score of all 9 regular season games mean absolute ZILCH in regards to the postseason. That is a fact and is irrefutable. 
 

You can take absolute joy in winning a conference championship or beating a huge rival, but at the end of the day and the end of the regular season it means jack squat. Everybody reverts back to 0-0. There’s zero gained advantage by having a better regular season than your peers. It’s a travesty. It happens nowhere else in this country outside IHSAA sanctioned tournaments. What you accomplish in the regular season is meaningless come week 10.

Change my mind.

Frankly, I wasn't talking to you and I was presenting a PLAYER perspective as opposed to an online-forum fan perspective, so I'm not quite sure why I have to change your mind about something that I wasn't talking about in the first place.  Also, it won't matter what is being presented because it doesn't agree with what YOUR IDEA is, so it will be wrong.  As a dad and a coach of youth players for many years, I want different things for my kids and players than many other folks may want.  So be it. 

My players and my kids were often urged to weigh their accomplishments against themselves and not necessarily by what the scoreboards said or by the W-L column.  It was a mantra of our programs that the scoreboard could say that you won by three TDs, but you didn't win if you didn't do your best and played a sloppy game.  By contrast, you could have lost the game, but gave it 100% and executed to the best of your ability and gained from it.  It may not be entertaining for all of the sports fans of Indiana, but it worked for our kids and players.  I've seen two decades plus of Indiana football and, as I stated before, can say that the vast majority OF PLAYERS would not agree that their regular seasons count for nothing ... even if you added the words "come the post season."

 

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

I’ve yet to hear a soundproof argument that regular season results matter.

Better?

 

[Komets2727]

Look, FootballKing cares in no way what anyone says to refute what he is saying. In his mind, nothing that is said means anything to him that is against his opinion. Period. Doesn’t mean he is right or that I or anyone else agrees with him, he just wants to be right. Fine, live your dream. I will live in reality, which is 100% different than what you are saying. Your scenario will not happen anytime soon. The sport is about the kids who play the game, not you, not me, hell, not even the fans. Guess what? Thousands upon thousands of fans will go to the games and support their teams and the product that is offered. 

[Footballking16]

16 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Look, FootballKing cares in no way what anyone says to refute what he is saying. In his mind, nothing that is said means anything to him that is against his opinion. Period. Doesn’t mean he is right or that I or anyone else agrees with him, he just wants to be right. Fine, live your dream. I will live in reality, which is 100% different than what you are saying. Your scenario will not happen anytime soon. The sport is about the kids who play the game, not you, not me, hell, not even the fans. Guess what? Thousands upon thousands of fans will go to the games and support their teams and the product that is offered. 

Not a single person has brought an argument to the table that brings a constructive thought as to how the regular season takes on any meaning.

I get I’m in the minority for a playoff qualifier, but for the life of me I have zero understanding how anybody can defend how the regular season takes on any kid of real value meaning.

If you support the all-in, that’s great. I get it. But stop with the backwards BS that the regular season has some kind of major connotation. It doesn’t. 

 

[Komets2727]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Not a single person has brought an argument to the table that brings a constructive thought as to how the regular season takes on any meaning.

I get I’m in the minority for a playoff qualifier, but for the life of me I have zero understanding how anybody can defend how the regular season takes on any kid of real value meaning.

If you support the all-in, that’s great. I get it. But stop with the backwards BS that the regular season has some kind of major connotation. It doesn’t. 

 

Show me one place where I said the regular season has a major connotation. The regular season means jack crap!!! Ask any player, would they rather have a great regular season and do nothing in the playoffs or vice versa. I promise you it is all about the playoffs. Doesn’t matter the sport, you will get the same response. Nobody remembers who won a conference title, but they do remember a sectional title, every school, every time. Regional title, semi-state title, and state title the legend just grows with each step. I remember my high school career well, many years ago, but my memory is better when it comes to playoff time and with each title they I was a part of.

[gonzoron]

[Komets2727]

5 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Lol!!!

[Justasportsfan]

12 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Not a single person has brought an argument to the table that brings a constructive thought as to how the regular season takes on any meaning.

I get I’m in the minority for a playoff qualifier, but for the life of me I have zero understanding how anybody can defend how the regular season takes on any kid of real value meaning.

If you support the all-in, that’s great. I get it. But stop with the backwards BS that the regular season has some kind of major connotation. It doesn’t. 

 

In this state we don't have the luxury of cutting teams out..programs with sub .500 records may not be able to keep finding new opponents that would help their record... be it sos or gaining a w..can't win..just get bigger, stronger, faster right!? Unfortunately I know a few who competed for a few years with subpar records n early playoff (tourney) exits including a surprising title game. It mattered to them..if a shortened field of contestants generated greater revenue for the ihsaa it could gain traction..

[foxbat]

3 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

In this state we don't have the luxury of cutting teams out..programs with sub .500 records may not be able to keep finding new opponents that would help their record... be it sos or gaining a w..can't win..just get bigger, stronger, faster right!? Unfortunately I know a few who competed for a few years with subpar records n early playoff (tourney) exits including a surprising title game. It mattered to them..if a shortened field of contestants generated greater revenue for the ihsaa it could gain traction..

I raised this issue in another post along with the potential major shakeup of conferences maneuvering x number of programs for post season and either leaving other programs behind or shoving them out of conferences.  This could produce several sub-par conferences with no real opportunities for improvement or, potentially worse, more "independents" that can't get a conference to entertain admitting them under any circumstances.

In Texas, the primary reason for Texas cutting out half the state's participants has more to do with logistics and much less to do with competitiveness.  Texas has an 11-week season to play 10 games ... they have a bye week baked in to their season ... and their championships finish, this year, on December 17.  They can't really afford to have any more folks involved outside of the top four from each district unless they want to hold their championships on Christmas Eve.

[Esso Ayche]

[00NWP]

9 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Not a single person has brought an argument to the table that brings a constructive thought as to how the regular season takes on any meaning.

I get I’m in the minority for a playoff qualifier, but for the life of me I have zero understanding how anybody can defend how the regular season takes on any kid of real value meaning.

If you support the all-in, that’s great. I get it. But stop with the backwards BS that the regular season has some kind of major connotation. It doesn’t. 

 

While not really an argument; In smaller communities such as Elkhart County, the regular season does mean a few things.  Most kids in our area, are friends with kids from other schools.  They get to know each other as do the families at football, wrestling and other sports.  Not many teams are going to "make noise" throughout the playoffs in football; however, they will wear that conference patch on their jacket with pride.  They will rib their buddies for the following year about beating their team.  I would argue, to a lot of kids, the conference championship is more important than winning a sectional championship. I could care less about seeding of the playoffs; however, I am for letting the kids who will never play another down of football (other than some beer leagues as adults) play an extra game.  As a fan...it shouldn't really matter...its about the kids.

[Bullhorn99]

20 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

For every IHSAA member school.
 

Show me another postseason format in any sport at any level where your regular season record doesn’t determine your seed/draw/opponent come postseason. A team in Indiana could theoretically not play a single regular season game and still compete in the postseason. It’s madness, make it make sense.

I really am curious to know how you come to the conclusion that regular season games are meaningless. Having played, coached, and parented through more that 30 years of high school football in Indiana, I never found myself sitting there during week 3 or 4 or whenever thinking, "Gosh if only we would have a qualifying format, this game would actually have meaning, but since we don't and the game is meaningless, I really just don't care at all what happens Friday night." By the way, I've also never had anyone I'm connected with express that peculiar thought either.

[Bobref]

24 minutes ago, Bullhorn99 said:

I really am curious to know how you come to the conclusion that regular season games are meaningless. Having played, coached, and parented through more that 30 years of high school football in Indiana, I never found myself sitting there during week 3 or 4 or whenever thinking, "Gosh if only we would have a qualifying format, this game would actually have meaning, but since we don't and the game is meaningless, I really just don't care at all what happens Friday night." By the way, I've also never had anyone I'm connected with express that peculiar thought either.

There is a big distinction between “meaningless” and “less meaningful.” Every game, practice, weight workout, film session, etc., has some meaning. The point being made is that a playoff qualification format makes regular season games “more meaningful” than they are under the all in format. As I’ve said before, I don’t see how anyone who has ever been involved in playoff football can disagree with that.

[Bullhorn99]

4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

There is a big distinction between “meaningless” and “less meaningful.” Every game, practice, weight workout, film session, etc., has some meaning. The point being made is that a playoff qualification format makes regular season games “more meaningful” than they are under the all in format. As I’ve said before, I don’t see how anyone who has ever been involved in playoff football can disagree with that.

Footballking16 in multiple posts referred to the regular season as meaningless--that is the exact wording--the posts did not say "less meaningful".

Quantify 'more meaning' for me. Would a playoff qualifier universally create more meaning or would it simply modify/change the meaning of the regular season for a certain number of schools?

I am not staunchly in the camp of keeping the 'all-in' format. I would just like to see a more practical or quantifiable reasoning than the "more meaning" argument. 

 

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, Bullhorn99 said:

Quantify 'more meaning' for me. Would a playoff qualifier universally create more meaning or would it simply modify/change the meaning of the regular season for a certain number of schools?

If you’re looking for some sort of calculus with which to quantify “more meaningful,” can’t help you there. But, based on years of following Ohio football closely, in addition to Indiana and some Illinois, my feeling is that the “meaningfulness” would probably break down approximately as follows:

For 25% of the schools in each class, it will mean a modest increase in meaningfulness. These schools are perennial qualifiers in a “top 50%” format. The modest increase in meaningfulness comes from the jockeying for seeding position, which determines home field advantage.

For 50% of the schools in each class, there will be a major increase in meaningfulness. These schools are stuck in the middle, only occasionally good enough to contend for a conference or sectional championship. But most years, not. Under a qualification format, these schools now have a more achievable goal, one toward which they can strive every season. That would make those Week 9 games between 2 4-4 teams a LOT more meaningful than they are right now. It’s those games involving the teams in the middle that, by about Week 4, are taking on some aspects of a playoff game … in September! That’s what we’re shooting for.

For the bottom 25%, the change will cause scarcely a ripple. Like the poor, the bottom 25% will always be with us.

2 hours ago, Bullhorn99 said:

I really am curious to know how you come to the conclusion that regular season games are meaningless. Having played, coached, and parented through more that 30 years of high school football in Indiana, I never found myself sitting there during week 3 or 4 or whenever thinking, "Gosh if only we would have a qualifying format, this game would actually have meaning, but since we don't and the game is meaningless, I really just don't care at all what happens Friday night." By the way, I've also never had anyone I'm connected with express that peculiar thought either.

And I bet your feelings would be exactly the same, even if your team were eliminated from playoff contention by Week 6 under a qualification format, right?

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bobref

[Bullhorn99]

10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

 

And I bet your feelings would be exactly the same, even if your team were eliminated from playoff contention by Week 6 under a qualification format, right?

And if that is the case, why does a change in structure need to occur?

Also, if that is the case, doesn't that defeat the argument that a qualification structure provides more meaning?

[gonzoron]

2 minutes ago, Bullhorn99 said:

And if that is the case, why does a change in structure need to occur?

Also, if that is the case, doesn't that defeat the argument that a qualification structure provides more meaning?

Those who want a qualification system seem to be forgetting the main focus and purpose of high school sports. 

[Bobref]

11 minutes ago, Bullhorn99 said:

And if that is the case, why does a change in structure need to occur?

Also, if that is the case, doesn't that defeat the argument that a qualification structure provides more meaning?

Like most good ideas, different people like and dislike it for different reasons. But it does address the idea, heard often in these pages, that a qualification format would result in teams eliminated from post-season play “giving up” in their remaining games because they “have nothing to play for.”