Temp’s Preseason Top 50

[temptation]

34 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Such is the way of the world. Best to embrace it rather than to deny it. 

 

Soft mentality from you here tbh. 

Do you have experience in what goes on in school buildings from 8am-3pm?  

I don’t agree with it but an interesting stance to take when it comes to high school athletics.

 

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

What about the transfer who only comes in due to a parent gaining or losing a job? Or perhaps now has to live with grandma..I'm not saying bench the guy who showed up everyday..I love Rudy myself..I'm just saying give em both some time to shine.."🏆🏆heck coach we like district titles round these parts" in my varsity blues vc

I'm not oblivious to the fact that some kids move because they have to. Or that some kids move because they are in a toxic situation. I'm ok with that. But I have no respect for a coach that actively pilfers another high school coach's players. Most times we don't know the back story. All I'm saying, is that where it exists, shame on that coach. 

[scarab527]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Do you have experience in what goes on in school buildings from 8am-3pm?  

I don’t agree with it but an interesting stance to take when it comes to high school athletics.

 

Much more experience than you think I do. 
 

Giving a kid a starting spot when their ability does not warrant it just cause he’s “waited his turn” is a participation trophy. And I thought we were all against those? Apparently I was wrong on that. 

[temptation]

16 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Much more experience than you think I do. 
 

Giving a kid a starting spot when their ability does not warrant it just cause he’s “waited his turn” is a participation trophy. And I thought we were all against those? Apparently I was wrong on that. 

False equivalency.  You’re speaking in hyperbole here.  That was never the accusation being made.  No one claimed “their ability does not warrant it.”

The point being made is that it is much easier to have respect for a program that is built from the ground up via feeder systems, while promoting hard work and dedication.  Programs that hit reset annually and build via other means (Colorado comes to mind), are becoming way too common for many people’s taste.  And please don’t hit me with the piss poor analogy of “coaches can leave so why can’t players?”

”Waiting your turn” in this instance (though I can’t speak for everyone) means the wide eyed kid that busts his ass from elementary on and watches the high school team in hopes of one day being the the next one given an opportunity to play.  When you bring in “one and dones” from surrounding programs it’s pretty demoralizing and you are sending a really important message whether you realize it or not.

That kid, let’s assume he is talented, has three choices…transfer, switch positions, continue to be a team first guy and accept a backup role.

No pearl clutching here but let’s just call this what it is.

Edited August 14, 2024 by temptation

[scarab527]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

False equivalency.  You’re speaking in hyperbole here.  That was never the accusation being made.  No one claimed “their ability does not warrant it.”

The point being made is that it is much easier to have respect for a program that is built from the ground up via feeder systems, while promoting hard work and dedication.  Programs that hit reset annually and build via other means (Colorado comes to mind), are becoming way too common for many people’s taste.  And please don’t hit me with the piss poor analogy of “coaches can leave so why can’t players?”

”Waiting your turn” in this instance (though I can’t speak for everyone) means the wide eyed kid that busts his ass from elementary on and watches the high school team in hopes of one day being the the next one given an opportunity to play.  When you bring in “one and dones” from surrounding programs it’s pretty demoralizing and you are sending a really important message whether you realize it or not.

That kid, let’s assume he is talented, has three choices…transfer, switch positions, continue to be a team first guy and accept a backup role.

No pearl clutching here but let’s just call this what it is.

Go back through the comments, “win with the kids you have” sure seems to imply that. 
 

Seems like a whole lot of pearl clutching going on in that comment Temp…but to each their own. 

[temptation]

12 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Go back through the comments, “win with the kids you have” sure seems to imply that. 
 

Seems like a whole lot of pearl clutching going on in that comment Temp…but to each their own. 

No one was ever accused of starting kids “lacking ability.”

If you are worth anything as a coach, you’ve developed those lower levels so that when that kids’ time comes, you’ve prepared him.

[scarab527]

54 minutes ago, temptation said:

No one was ever accused of starting kids “lacking ability.”

If you are worth anything as a coach, you’ve developed those lower levels so that when that kids’ time comes, you’ve prepared him.

And all the coaching in the world won’t make certain kids varsity players. 

[temptation]

40 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

And all the coaching in the world won’t make certain kids varsity players. 

In a school of 3800?

It should make “enough” kids varsity players.

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

In a school of 3800?

It should make “enough” kids varsity players.

Case in point: Adams Central. Enrollment 408.

[temptation]

12 minutes ago, BTF said:

Case in point: Adams Central. Enrollment 408.

I’m genuinely curious though.  

WHY do people think that a school like Warren has been littered with “transfers” as of late?

I used to hear lines like “kids want to play for programs with a winning culture” but Warren has been a .500 program since their last state title.

The current crop of student athletes were in late elementary school the last time Warren was relevant state wide.

What is it?

Edited August 14, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

I’m genuinely curious though.  

WHY do people think that a school like Warren has been loaded with “transfers” as of late?

I used to hear lines like “kids want to play for programs with a winning culture” but Warren has been a .500 program since their last state title.

The current crop of student athletes were in late elementary school the last time Warren was relevant state wide.

What is it?

Salesmen? 

[psaboy]

7 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Or we could flip the script and ask how the Snider O will go against WC's D.  Looks like they have the #1, #6, and #18 ranked recruits in the state according to 247...all on D.  Offers to the SEC, Big 10 and ACC.

https://247sports.com/season/2025-football/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=IN

 

Looks like #18 is on O side of the ball. Never the less, impressive to have three top 20 on team, lets see if they can live up to that.

[scarab527]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

In a school of 3800?

It should make “enough” kids varsity players.

In the case of Warren specifically, there’s a big difference between serviceable varsity players and guys that will go on to play high level D1 football. You really expect Kirschner to turn those guys away or not jump at the opportunity to bring them in? C’mon man, don’t be naive. 

Coaches down in Indy aren’t getting paid 100K+ (as it’s been reported here before) to appease guys on the internet and live up to their cheesy movie notions of high school sports. They’re paid first and foremost to win football games. Know some people on here might not like to hear that, but that’s the truth. 
 

“You can’t win a race if you’re not driving a Ferrari” as they say. 

[Justasportsfan]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I’m genuinely curious though.  

WHY do people think that a school like Warren has been littered with “transfers” as of late?

I used to hear lines like “kids want to play for programs with a winning culture” but Warren has been a .500 program since their last state title.

The current crop of student athletes were in late elementary school the last time Warren was relevant state wide.

What is it?

If they were in elementary they (as well as their parents) know wc can win titles with the right athletes..noticing the holes they had last year might have enticed them as well as playing alongside top tier talent equating more looks for everyone. Kids and coaches probably talk..hey come here and you will start and we can win state..Warren used to have a nice environment when I visited..large student body..I'm sure an athlete can make tons of friends while enjoying the scenery..

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I’m genuinely curious though.  

WHY do people think that a school like Warren has been littered with “transfers” as of late?

I used to hear lines like “kids want to play for programs with a winning culture” but Warren has been a .500 program since their last state title.

The current crop of student athletes were in late elementary school the last time Warren was relevant state wide.

What is it?

The same reason why IU still lands top basketball recruits: it’s a known program.

[temptation]

10 hours ago, scarab527 said:

In the case of Warren specifically, there’s a big difference between serviceable varsity players and guys that will go on to play high level D1 football. You really expect Kirschner to turn those guys away or not jump at the opportunity to bring them in? C’mon man, don’t be naive. 

Coaches down in Indy aren’t getting paid 100K+ (as it’s been reported here before) to appease guys on the internet and live up to their cheesy movie notions of high school sports. They’re paid first and foremost to win football games. Know some people on here might not like to hear that, but that’s the truth. 
 

“You can’t win a race if you’re not driving a Ferrari” as they say. 

Can’t disagree on nearly any of your points but can we finally stop with the posturing about these guys “doing what’s best for kids”, “developing great young men of high character” and all of that other nonsense.

If high school football is now a business, my days as a “cheesy internet fan” are numbered?

10 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

The same reason why IU still lands top basketball recruits: it’s a known program.

It’s not just football.

Edited August 15, 2024 by temptation

[jets]

10 hours ago, scarab527 said:

In the case of Warren specifically, there’s a big difference between serviceable varsity players and guys that will go on to play high level D1 football. You really expect Kirschner to turn those guys away or not jump at the opportunity to bring them in? C’mon man, don’t be naive. 

Coaches down in Indy aren’t getting paid 100K+ (as it’s been reported here before) to appease guys on the internet and live up to their cheesy movie notions of high school sports. They’re paid first and foremost to win football games. Know some people on here might not like to hear that, but that’s the truth. 
 

“You can’t win a race if you’re not driving a Ferrari” as they say. 

100K + ?!?! Geez....I must be in the wrong part of the State. 

Story time: A few years ago, a certain Southern Indiana power went out and filled a few "positions of need" around their Mr. Football candidate. The rest of the conference and others called "foul" - but we were told it happens all the time up around the Indy area

So why all the fuss around WC?? I thought this was a normal occurrence?? 

[First_Backer_Inside]

On 8/13/2024 at 7:33 PM, BTF said:

I'd like to hear a coach's perspective on this. With the amount of scrimmages and 7 on 7's teams tend to play in the summer now adays, I would imagine they are more prepared in Week 1 than we are giving them credit for?

As a coach, you never really know what you have until full pads are on, the coaches aren't in the huddles, you have to play a full 48 minute game, and the kids execute or don't execute the game plan put in place. It usually is week 3 or 4 when all the teams in the state are up to full speed with things. Nothing will drive a coordinator crazy like a 7 on 7 or an 11 on 11. No game plan, don't know what the team is going to lineup in and do. Really its just an opportunity for coaches to see who can play and who can't play at the varsity level in my opinion. 

15 hours ago, BTF said:

I think so. When you enter high school, you know you're now competing with a whole new crop of kids. I just hate to see a kid put in two or three years of hard work only to be told, "nah, we're bringing in someone else."

"Iron sharpens Iron" The kid has two choices. You can complain about the situation you are in all year and waste your last year of playing football you might have, or you can go out and get better everyday competing for that spot to create competition and better play. Its not easy for a young man to keep a level head about and do no doubt. A few buddies of mine and myself were in a similar situation in college. We played at a college in Indy that was pretty good. We were on scout team for a lot of our career. We would get after it with our starting defense everyday trying to get noticed ourselves. The week after a game our defense would tell us we were better than the offense they just faced on Saturday. At the end of the first year, we had one guy transfer to another school. He had great stats for his position at a middle of the road D2 program that went .500 on the year every year he was there. The rest of us stayed and continued playing scout team for a team that won multiple conference championships and never was out of the top 15 in D2. It was hard to do as a college kid and I'm sure it is even harder for high school athletes to have that attitude. But to be apart of something great is worth it to me. Tough situation at Warren and lots of pressure, but pressure does produce diamonds. Maybe this will be the year for them.

[scarab527]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Can’t disagree on nearly any of your points but can we finally stop with the posturing about these guys “doing what’s best for kids”, “developing great young men of high character” and all of that other nonsense.

If high school football is now a business, my days as a “cheesy internet fan” are numbered?

It depends on if you view winning and those other things as mutually exclusive. I’d argue that most winning programs develop young men of high character. A team full of jagoffs generally isn’t going to be the best team in the world. And doing what’s best for all the kids (kids want to win too) might sometimes involve replacing one kid. I don’t think those are cheesy concerns and I think they are actually pretty important to building a winning program. What is cheesy movie garbage is “my town versus your town” when that hasn’t been the case in reality in a long time. Just up in the Region, the Hobart dynasty was notorious for having kids not from Hobart on their teams, the most famous example being the Karras brothers. This isn’t a new phenomenon. Open enrollment and what’s going on in college have just put more of an eye on it. 
 

Football is in a weird position because it’s the cash cow that subsidizes a lot of the other sports. It’s also one of the more costly sports for a school to provide. Couple those with the fact that schools use their athletic programs essentially as a form of advertising for the school and an incentive for parents to send their kids there, and with football’s popularity always putting a lot of eyes on it, and you’ve got our current situation. But coaches have always been expected to win games in any sport right? Schools generally don’t keep around the guys who coach perennial losers for very long. 

[BTF]

At the end of the day, this is high school football, not college. If I'm a coach, I'm rolling with "next man up." I have too much respect for the kids who put in the hard work from day one within the program.  I also would have too much respect for other coaches to actively go after their players. Not gonna lie, I'd do some recruiting at the middle school level. Those kids are free game in my opinion. 

First_Backer_Inside...........thanks for your insights. 

[Bash Riprock]

23 hours ago, scarab527 said:

Generally speaking, if you’re not good enough at your job, your company will find someone else who is and replace you with them. Teaching kids that it doesn’t matter how good they are as long as they “wait their turn” is just setting them up for future failures and disappointments. It’s a dog eat dog world boys, get used to it. Better that kids learn it as kids as opposed to as adults. 

So instead of working harder and mastering your craft, cut bait and run to where hopefully the competition is less??

Never heard Tom Brady tell that story given his experiences at Michigan and the Pats.....As a matter of fact, I don't remember many sporting legends share that view.....

[scarab527]

6 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

So instead of working harder and mastering your craft, cut bait and run to where hopefully the competition is less??

Never heard Tom Brady tell that story given his experiences at Michigan and the Pats.....As a matter of fact, I don't remember many sporting legends share that view.....

Lmao where in my comment do I say that, or even suggest that? Please, show me. 

Edited August 15, 2024 by scarab527

[psaboy]

On 8/14/2024 at 4:35 PM, BTF said:

I think so. When you enter high school, you know you're now competing with a whole new crop of kids. I just hate to see a kid put in two or three years of hard work only to be told, "nah, we're bringing in someone else."

Yea, think is stinks too, but it is a tough world. The kid that waited for his chance, but gets bumped could move on to less competitive school? I betting a lot of could go to smaller school and then bump another kid. Yes it is a vicious cycle, I'll admit, but it is the world we live in. 

[temptation]

10.  Carroll (Fort Wayne)

9.  Hamilton Southeastern

8.  Indianapolis Cathedral

7.  Westfield 

6.  Crown Point

[BTF]

5 hours ago, temptation said:

10.  Carroll (Fort Wayne)

9.  Hamilton Southeastern

8.  Indianapolis Cathedral

7.  Westfield 

6.  Crown Point

HSE at Carroll in Week 1 should be a dandy.