6A Tournament Discussion

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

Yes, I have watched CP play and speed kills, especially when the other team doesn’t have it. CP is a good team, period. The schedule is softer than Charmin, hard to give credit when you are comparing apples to oranges when it should be apples to apples. Subpar schedule for a 6A school, yep

But at least they got that team from Arizona on the schedule as opposed to playing an Indy/Chicago powerhouse.

Edited November 9, 2024 by temptation

[Bobref]

11 minutes ago, temptation said:

But at least they got that team from Arizona on the schedule as opposed to playing an Indy/Chicago powerhouse.

The coach of that Arizona team was a guy who played for Coach Buzea at Portage.

[temptation]

Just now, Bobref said:

The coach of that Arizona team was a guy who played for Coach Buzea at Portage.

Cool.

[GOLDRUSH1985]

I’m with BTF, Crown Point is the real deal. . They will Roll Carroll at home . A CP vs Westfield matchup will be a slugfest. I feel CP beats Westfield as well. 

[Komets2727]

18 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

What's your prediction for Carroll at Crown Point? 

Carroll isn’t that great either so CP by double digits. Carroll is a one man show on offense with QB Sullivan and a decent supporting cast. Sullivan is banged up so not sure what he will be able to do. Defensively, Carroll is good, but with CP having speed it does not bode well for the Chargers. I could see a 35-10 type of game

[danomyte]

50 minutes ago, temptation said:

But at least they got that team from Arizona on the schedule as opposed to playing an Indy/Chicago powerhouse.

So from what I've read on this... CP had a Home/Away series scheduled with Chicago Taft to help raise money for Leukemia (Both Coach Buzz & Taft Principal had Leukemia and leaned on each other to get through it) after CP beat them so bad in year 1 Taft broke the contract and CP had to find an opponent to fill the week 2 spot... Problem is most schedules are made 2+ years in advanced... Arizona basically played CP week 0.  Like I mentioned previously, hopefully a Chicago team is on the schedule for next year. 

[BTF]

15 minutes ago, danomyte said:

after CP beat them so bad in year 1 Taft broke the contract 

Lol, that's a true story? Grown adults saying "we're not playing you next year because you beat us 49-7?" No, that can't be right. 

[Boilernation]

44 minutes ago, danomyte said:

So from what I've read on this... CP had a Home/Away series scheduled with Chicago Taft to help raise money for Leukemia (Both Coach Buzz & Taft Principal had Leukemia and leaned on each other to get through it) after CP beat them so bad in year 1 Taft broke the contract and CP had to find an opponent to fill the week 2 spot... Problem is most schedules are made 2+ years in advanced... Arizona basically played CP week 0.  Like I mentioned previously, hopefully a Chicago team is on the schedule for next year. 

Any chance the series ends with Lowell any time soon? I know it's one of the longest running rivalries in the the state and a south Lake County staple, but it appears to have run it's course and will continue to be a running clock type of game.

[CP Coach]

3 hours ago, BTF said:

Lol, that's a true story? Grown adults saying "we're not playing you next year because you beat us 49-7?" No, that can't be right. 

True story.  
Illinois has a points based system to make playoffs and they knew they had no chance of winning.  They broke it off to try and find a game they can gain points.  

[BTF]

7 hours ago, CP Coach said:

True story.  
Illinois has a points based system to make playoffs and they knew they had no chance of winning.  They broke it off to try and find a game they can gain points.  

I keep forgetting that Indiana is "unique", only state in the Union where everyone makes the playoffs. I guess it makes sense then why they broke it off. 

[FastpacedO]

On 11/9/2024 at 4:00 PM, Boilernation said:

So, what are we saying here? Everyone sucks unless they beat an HCC or MIC team or Cathedral/Center Grove? Yes, Crown Point’s schedule is sub par for a 6A contender. But by no means does that prove they couldn’t finish in the top 2 or 3 of the HCC. Have you actually watched CP play? Throw out the level of comp and just look at the schemes and talent on offense. 

No everybody doesn't suck unless they beat an HCC team, MIC team, Cathedral, or Center Grove. When I look at Crown Points schedule and talk about their SOS it is not to say they are a bad team or they suck because they don't they are a very good team with solid players. I struggle where to place them because haven't played a team (yet) where I can really gauge them to the rest of the teams left in 6A. I don't know how they will do when: their secondary is tested by a good offense that can throw the ball, they play a team that has a very good defense that can challenge their offense, they play a team that can match their size, they play a team that can match their speed or is faster at every position.

I have watched them play but they have been far superior to their competition by a long shot. I felt the same last year they squeaked one by Penn (who I feel was better last year than this year) so I was 50/50 on how they would do against Westfield. They came out looking great from the start against Westfield then once Westfield got in a groove and stormed back I felt Crown Point was more respectable because they pulled out a tight one in Double OT against Westfield. That being said I felt Crown Point easily could have lost that game and that Westfields coach made a couple bad decisions when they had momentum. Immediately after that game I knew Crown Point was very good, but they were not going to be good enough for the buzzsaw they were about to see from the 6A South. Didn't make them a bad team just they weren't quite at that level.

This year I can't really make heads of it yet I am still staying reserved on Crown Point. This week against Carroll we will see how their secondary does against a good passing team, but I still feel Crow Point is better than the Chargers and will win. I would say a 35-14 type of game maybe. The real judge for me will come the following week. I would like to say it is going to be Westfield they play and Westfield is very good. I only hesitate saying it will be Westfield because Fishers has been very bipolar and the game is at Fishers. Westfield should beat them handily, but Fishers has one of those teams that you don't know what to expect. Not to mention all of these HCC teams have seen each other once. So no I am not counting Crown Point out it is just the competition has been so subpar that I can't fully gage them against the really good competition left in 6A.

From the South I do know this:

1. Center Grove is very well coached has an excellent offense and physical defense they have had a meat grinder of a schedule.

2. Warren Central a defense unlike any other team in the State probably the only thing that keeps them in games because their offense is apathetic.

3. Brownsburg yes they exorcised a demon against Ben Davis. They have the biggest O-line I have seen this year and have speed. They are pretty balanced with good offense and good defense, but they have a tall task this week.

4. Lawrence North I don't think words can describe the speed that they have. Not just offensively but defensively at DB, LB, and D-line. They have enough speed to play man to man and blitz 7-8 guys to not give your QB time to throw. They have flaws yes, but their speed overcomes their flaws.

Remaining teams in 6A and their SOS:

1. Brownsburg - SOS 41.5

2. Center Grove  - SOS 40.5 (personally Jeffersonville drove that down a little they easily could be 1)

3. Fishers - SOS 39.8

4. Westfield - SOS 37.7

5. Lawrence North - SOS 35.3

6. Warren Central - SOS 25.4

7. Carroll - SOS 23.3

8. Crown Point - SOS 16.8

[FastpacedO]

On 11/9/2024 at 1:35 PM, danomyte said:

The end results were the same..

 

CP has a couple stats that are pretty incredible this year even for playing a north schedule... 11 games, 11 running clocks... A team usually had an off game somewhere even if they didn't lose it would be a closer score but it hasn't happened. When was the last time Penn had a running clock against them? Most of the games this season the running clocks were the entire second half. Their defense is smothering opponents and they have the offense to roll along. They have still only allowed 3 TD's by the first team defense all season. It's been incredible to watch and can't wait to see how they handle Carroll's pass attack. 

Penn had running clock on them in 2023 in their game against Cathedral. It was 35-0 at half and the Irish started subbing for the 2nd Half. The final was 35-6 as Penn scored on a 35 yard punt return in the second half.

[Boilernation]

4 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

No everybody doesn't suck unless they beat an HCC team, MIC team, Cathedral, or Center Grove. When I look at Crown Points schedule and talk about their SOS it is not to say they are a bad team or they suck because they don't they are a very good team with solid players. I struggle where to place them because haven't played a team (yet) where I can really gauge them to the rest of the teams left in 6A. I don't know how they will do when: their secondary is tested by a good offense that can throw the ball, they play a team that has a very good defense that can challenge their offense, they play a team that can match their size, they play a team that can match their speed or is faster at every position.

I have watched them play but they have been far superior to their competition by a long shot. I felt the same last year they squeaked one by Penn (who I feel was better last year than this year) so I was 50/50 on how they would do against Westfield. They came out looking great from the start against Westfield then once Westfield got in a groove and stormed back I felt Crown Point was more respectable because they pulled out a tight one in Double OT against Westfield. That being said I felt Crown Point easily could have lost that game and that Westfields coach made a couple bad decisions when they had momentum. Immediately after that game I knew Crown Point was very good, but they were not going to be good enough for the buzzsaw they were about to see from the 6A South. Didn't make them a bad team just they weren't quite at that level.

This year I can't really make heads of it yet I am still staying reserved on Crown Point. This week against Carroll we will see how their secondary does against a good passing team, but I still feel Crow Point is better than the Chargers and will win. I would say a 35-14 type of game maybe. The real judge for me will come the following week. I would like to say it is going to be Westfield they play and Westfield is very good. I only hesitate saying it will be Westfield because Fishers has been very bipolar and the game is at Fishers. Westfield should beat them handily, but Fishers has one of those teams that you don't know what to expect. Not to mention all of these HCC teams have seen each other once. So no I am not counting Crown Point out it is just the competition has been so subpar that I can't fully gage them against the really good competition left in 6A.

From the South I do know this:

1. Center Grove is very well coached has an excellent offense and physical defense they have had a meat grinder of a schedule.

2. Warren Central a defense unlike any other team in the State probably the only thing that keeps them in games because their offense is apathetic.

3. Brownsburg yes they exorcised a demon against Ben Davis. They have the biggest O-line I have seen this year and have speed. They are pretty balanced with good offense and good defense, but they have a tall task this week.

4. Lawrence North I don't think words can describe the speed that they have. Not just offensively but defensively at DB, LB, and D-line. They have enough speed to play man to man and blitz 7-8 guys to not give your QB time to throw. They have flaws yes, but their speed overcomes their flaws.

Remaining teams in 6A and their SOS:

1. Brownsburg - SOS 41.5

2. Center Grove  - SOS 40.5 (personally Jeffersonville drove that down a little they easily could be 1)

3. Fishers - SOS 39.8

4. Westfield - SOS 37.7

5. Lawrence North - SOS 35.3

6. Warren Central - SOS 25.4

7. Carroll - SOS 23.3

8. Crown Point - SOS 16.8

All fair points that I agree with. Especially that jekyll and hyde Fishers could actually beat Westfield and take the North. A lot more of an educated opinion than a baseless difinitive statement that Crown Point would be a 3 or 4 loss team in the HCC because of their current SOS. THAT was my issue. And it's really my issue. I could have just read the post, rolled my eyes or chuckled and moved on. 

I havne't really watched Center Grove or LN this year. The HCC gets a majority of my attention and then I'll watch a big game from the DAC or SAC. It sounds like LN would be a nightmare for whoever wins the North.

[FastpacedO]

3 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

All fair points that I agree with. Especially that jekyll and hyde Fishers could actually beat Westfield and take the North. A lot more of an educated opinion than a baseless difinitive statement that Crown Point would be a 3 or 4 loss team in the HCC because of their current SOS. THAT was my issue. And it's really my issue. I could have just read the post, rolled my eyes or chuckled and moved on. 

I havne't really watched Center Grove or LN this year. The HCC gets a majority of my attention and then I'll watch a big game from the DAC or SAC. It sounds like LN would be a nightmare for whoever wins the North.

Understood.

As for Lawrence North. Brownsburg's Coach Hart statement on LN kind of sums it up.

"as far as going into next week against LN, those cats are different. They may be the fastest offense and most aggressive defense I’ve seen in a long time."

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

All fair points that I agree with. Especially that jekyll and hyde Fishers could actually beat Westfield and take the North. A lot more of an educated opinion than a baseless difinitive statement that Crown Point would be a 3 or 4 loss team in the HCC because of their current SOS. THAT was my issue. And it's really my issue. I could have just read the post, rolled my eyes or chuckled and moved on. 

I havne't really watched Center Grove or LN this year. The HCC gets a majority of my attention and then I'll watch a big game from the DAC or SAC. It sounds like LN would be a nightmare for whoever wins the North.

LN's speed and weapons would be a nightmare for anyone but they are not above criticism.  They've fallen victim to turnovers and were highly penalized at times also.

[FastpacedO]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

LN's speed and weapons would be a nightmare for anyone but they are not above criticism.  They've fallen victim to turnovers and were highly penalized at times also.

Yes exactly why I have said they have flaws but they have been able to overcome them with their speed and aggressiveness.

Prime example Cathedral bottled up the LN RB in the first half forcing LN to throw (which can be scary too) but Cathedral intercepted the ball multiple times. Even with a short field LN played so aggressively on defense they didn't give time to the Irish QB and forced a hug mistake that turned into a pick 6. They lead at half 7-0. Definitely not a perfect team, but if you can't manage their speed they will score quick and often.

[FastpacedO]

18 hours ago, Boilernation said:

A lot more of an educated opinion than a baseless difinitive statement that Crown Point would be a 3 or 4 loss team in the HCC because of their current SOS. THAT was my issue. And it's really my issue. 

Personally I would say if Crown Point were in the HCC they could be 9-0, 8-1, 7-2, or 6-3. Any of the 4 could apply to them, and not just because of them. The one thing I have really noticed with the HCC is it is very unpredictable. Brownsburg and Westfield looked like they were the most likely to go undefeated in the conference. Brownsburg beat Westfield in a very close game and at that moment it was easy to think well then Brownsburg will go undefeated. Then bam HSE knocks off Brownsburg. Franklin Central beat both Fishers and HSE. Noblesville came very close to upsetting several of the top 4 in the conference with their ball control offense. The HCC is so unpredictable that I don't think anyone could predict what any teams record would be.

Injuries can make a world of difference too. Fishers for example as bipolar as they have played was a very solid team with Sturgill at QB, he got knocked out in the Brownsburg 31-30 loss (week 5) and they have been all over the map since. Westfield's QB Melvin got knocked out in the 3rd qtr of a 17-13 loss to Brownsburg. An injury to Ehrlich, Ellison, or Gibbs for example could really change things for the Bulldogs. Admittedly an injury could happen with their current schedule, but many of their games have been running clock and players sat. With that stiffer competition there can be me risk, but all teams have to play with that so it wouldn't be any more of a risk to Crown Point than it would be the other teams in the HCC. There are just too many variables to predict exactly where any team would finish in the HCC. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Personally I would say if Crown Point were in the HCC they could be 9-0, 8-1, 7-2, or 6-3. Any of the 4 could apply to them, and not just because of them. The one thing I have really noticed with the HCC is it is very unpredictable. Brownsburg and Westfield looked like they were the most likely to go undefeated in the conference. Brownsburg beat Westfield in a very close game and at that moment it was easy to think well then Brownsburg will go undefeated. Then bam HSE knocks off Brownsburg. Franklin Central beat both Fishers and HSE. Noblesville came very close to upsetting several of the top 4 in the conference with their ball control offense. The HCC is so unpredictable that I don't think anyone could predict what any teams record would be.

Injuries can make a world of difference too. Fishers for example as bipolar as they have played was a very solid team with Sturgill at QB, he got knocked out in the Brownsburg 31-30 loss (week 5) and they have been all over the map since. Westfield's QB Melvin got knocked out in the 3rd qtr of a 17-13 loss to Brownsburg. An injury to Ehrlich, Ellison, or Gibbs for example could really change things for the Bulldogs. Admittedly an injury could happen with their current schedule, but many of their games have been running clock and players sat. With that stiffer competition there can be me risk, but all teams have to play with that so it wouldn't be any more of a risk to Crown Point than it would be the other teams in the HCC. There are just too many variables to predict exactly where any team would finish in the HCC. 

In my opinion, your opening paragraph made the exact opposite point of your intention.

[Boilernation]

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

In my opinion, your opening paragraph made the exact opposite point of your intention.

I get what he's saying. It's a bloodbath. Everyone is capable of beating the top dog. There are no Crown Point vs. LaPorte type of games or Carroll vs. South Side, Ben Davis vs. North Central, etc. 

Noblesville finishes dead last with 0 HCC wins and only one conference game had a MOV higher than 7 points. That's a wild stat to me. And 2 years in a row they put a running clock on a team that just finished 5-2 in SAC play.

[FastpacedO]

21 minutes ago, temptation said:

In my opinion, your opening paragraph made the exact opposite point of your intention.

Let me hopefully clarify the best I can. With all the variables and unpredictability of the HCC. It is not easy to predict what Crown Points record would be in the HCC just as it is not easy to predict any HCC teams record. 

[FastpacedO]

5 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

I get what he's saying. It's a bloodbath. Everyone is capable of beating the top dog. There are no Crown Point vs. LaPorte type of games or Carroll vs. South Side, Ben Davis vs. North Central, etc. 

Noblesville finishes dead last with 0 HCC wins and only one conference game had a MOV higher than 7 points. That's a wild stat to me. And 2 years in a row they put a running clock on a team that just finished 5-2 in SAC play.

The craziest Box Score I ever posted for @temptation a few weeks back.

[temptation]

12 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Let me hopefully clarify the best I can. With all the variables and unpredictability of the HCC. It is not easy to predict what Crown Points record would be in the HCC just as it is not easy to predict any HCC teams record. 

Yeah, but the chaos/parity that you speak of lends itself to 5-2 much more so than it does 7-0...you have to be on EVERY WEEK.  No disrespect to teams like Valpo and Merrillville, but Crown Point's B game still yields an undefeated record in the Duneland.

8 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

The craziest Box Score I ever posted for @temptation a few weeks back.

 

Absolutely nuts.

Edited November 12, 2024 by temptation

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Let me hopefully clarify the best I can. With all the variables and unpredictability of the HCC. It is not easy to predict what Crown Points record would be in the HCC just as it is not easy to predict any HCC teams record. 

Just wrong. The depth and power of that conference in no way gives CP a shot at 9-0. 5-4 or 6-3 at best. Put it this way as shown above, the worst team in the conference is capable of beating the top of the conference. In no way is that true of CP’s conference 

[BTF]

33 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Just wrong. The depth and power of that conference in no way gives CP a shot at 9-0. 5-4 or 6-3 at best. Put it this way as shown above, the worst team in the conference is capable of beating the top of the conference. In no way is that true of CP’s conference 

So if they represent the north for the second year in a row, are you still thinking 6-3 at best?

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Boilernation said:

And 2 years in a row they put a running clock on a team that just finished 5-2 in SAC play.

Not a good example. The SAC is loaded with 3A-5A teams and Homestead still isn't the team they were a few years back. However, it is interesting that Noblesville running clocked them, yet they were an onside kick away from having a chance to beat HSE. 

Here comes Temp.