Mt. Vernon High School administrators appear tired of losing student athletes to Cathredal, so it hides behind asinine IHSAA transfer policies.

[Muda69]

At least that is my take on Mr. Doyel's recent column:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2024/11/25/ihsaa-mt-vernon-pick-and-choose-transfer-bylaws-they-want-to-follow/76507956007/

 

 

Also a story by Mr. Neddenriep:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2024/11/25/mt-vernon-blocks-cathedral-brothers-eligibility-after-transfer-ihsaa-bylaws-basketball-julien-smith/76569434007/?tbref=hp

 

[Footballking16]

Someone should remind Mt Vernon how many kids they have enjoyed from Lawrence Township over the years.

[olinecoach]

Quite a difference in the tone, and frankly the quality, of the two articles. One seems to be based in fact and what was directly said in testimony and interviews, the other plays fast and loose with editing of interviews and journalistic integrity as a whole. Doyle is not the "hero" he thinks he is. 

[Titan32]

This principle is the lowest of the low human being.

[Footballking16]

11 minutes ago, olinecoach said:

Quite a difference in the tone, and frankly the quality, of the two articles. One seems to be based in fact and what was directly said in testimony and interviews, the other plays fast and loose with editing of interviews and journalistic integrity as a whole. Doyle is not the "hero" he thinks he is. 

It's hypocrisy. The best athlete at Mt Vernon is a Lawrence Township kid who went to a CYO school through 8th grade. He has several older siblings who were D1 athletes that all took the same path. Lawrence Township kids, primarily from the affluent Geist area, have been jumping county lines for years to play at Mt Vernon. 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Footballking16

[NumbersNvrLie]

Things like this happen too frequently under the current IHSAA administration

[US31]

Not offereing an opinion on the situation regarding these atheletes, but all of us in Indy metro need to be thankful Kyle Neddenriep is the primary voice of HS sports here.  He is a true asset to what the HS sports experience is within Indy metro.  He's balanced, he has the best interests of high school sports (and all that fits in that umbrella) in mind when he goes to work each day.  I don't know that I've always agreed with everything he's written....but I've never seen any evidence he wasn't putting high school kids first in what, I'm sure, is a job with a lot of hours and pay that doesn't match the work he does.

Can't say the same for the other guy...

[adambetz]

The IHSAA sucks at handling transfers. I got a story for ya'll.

A couple years ago a student transferred from school A to school B. At school B, they were cut from their team in tryouts. I'd assume school A signed off, but I'm not sure. Anyway, the student gets cut from school B so they approach school C. School C goes through the IHSAA process and the eligibilty represtative decides that the student wouldn't have full eligibility at school C. The student's parents enroll the student at school D, the eligibilty representative for the IHSAA is different than the one at school C so the student gets full eligibility and plays in a game after 10 practices.

[US31]

7 minutes ago, adambetz said:

The IHSAA sucks at handling transfers. I got a story for ya'll.

A couple years ago a student transferred from school A to school B. At school B, they were cut from their team in tryouts. I'd assume school A signed off, but I'm not sure. Anyway, the student gets cut from school B so they approach school C. School C goes through the IHSAA process and the eligibilty represtative decides that the student wouldn't have full eligibility at school C. The student's parents enroll the student at school D, the eligibilty representative for the IHSAA is different than the one at school C so the student gets full eligibility and plays in a game after 10 practices.

Again...not making any opinion on the MtV kids.  But what you are describing happens more often than some people would like to admit...I'd argue the reason that a lot of ADs/Admins sign off is that its just not worth the drama/effort that might arise when someone wants to argue the issue.  Its a mess...on all sides...IHSAA, admins, parents, etc.  In larger metro areas its magnified. 

I have no solutions to this issue...I want to kids to be able to change schools when it is in fact a better life/academic environment...I also agree with Mr Neidig that anytype of free transfer/portal system would be an even bigger mess for high school sports.  The fact that most people in charge of getting this right have a thousand other things on their plate that are arguably more important just makes it worse.

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

This principle is the lowest of the low human being.

What principle?

 

[Indiansreloaded]

So, the change of address clause is confusing because of the simple fact that private schools don't have an address requirement.  If a student that resides in Gary and wants to go to Evansville Memorial then the student can because Memorial is a private school.  I get transferring for athletic purposes, but both schools agreed that this is not the case on any of the 3.  

I say that we start a petition to get signed to gets these boys eligible. 

[Titan32]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

What principle?

 

You got me boss!  principal

[Coach Lou]

Here at Elkhart we have benefitted greatly from transfers. Some of our best football players this past season came from outside of Elkhart although a couple of them had to wait a week to be eligible.

 

 

[PHJIrish]

3 hours ago, olinecoach said:

Quite a difference in the tone, and frankly the quality, of the two articles. One seems to be based in fact and what was directly said in testimony and interviews, the other plays fast and loose with editing of interviews and journalistic integrity as a whole. Doyle is not the "hero" he thinks he is. 

His name is Doyel and he actually reviewed in depth the situation.  Kyle just seems to take the IHSAA and Mount Vernon's interpretation of things.  Your choice how what to believe.  It also proves the point that transfers from Cathedral play immediately, and that's not the case when a student transfers to Cathedral.  I can site many instances to prove that.

[PHJIrish]

2 hours ago, US31 said:

Not offereing an opinion on the situation regarding these atheletes, but all of us in Indy metro need to be thankful Kyle Neddenriep is the primary voice of HS sports here.  He is a true asset to what the HS sports experience is within Indy metro.  He's balanced, he has the best interests of high school sports (and all that fits in that umbrella) in mind when he goes to work each day.  I don't know that I've always agreed with everything he's written....but I've never seen any evidence he wasn't putting high school kids first in what, I'm sure, is a job with a lot of hours and pay that doesn't match the work he does.

Can't say the same for the other guy...

Kyle does the best he can under the circumstances.  He's a one man band as far as being a high school writer at our local "newspaper."  I'm sure he feels he has to stay on the IHSAA side to keep his job.  Any controversy would not be beneficial to his career.  I have no problem with him being on that side of this situation.  Doyel, on the other hand, is a columnist who points out the problems, and hard stories, of the city sports scene.  I don't always agree with either of the Indy Star writers, but I do understand discrimination.

[BDGiant93]

2 hours ago, US31 said:

Not offereing an opinion on the situation regarding these atheletes, but all of us in Indy metro need to be thankful Kyle Neddenriep is the primary voice of HS sports here.  He is a true asset to what the HS sports experience is within Indy metro.  He's balanced, he has the best interests of high school sports (and all that fits in that umbrella) in mind when he goes to work each day.  I don't know that I've always agreed with everything he's written....but I've never seen any evidence he wasn't putting high school kids first in what, I'm sure, is a job with a lot of hours and pay that doesn't match the work he does.

Can't say the same for the other guy...

Kyle is a first-class individual. He is deeply immersed in the local high school sports community, and he understands how to report on it. If he has an opinion, it's usually based on facts and knowledge. Plus, he's just an excellent writer. One of the best they have at the Star on any beat.

[tango]

1 hour ago, Indiansreloaded said:

So, the change of address clause is confusing because of the simple fact that private schools don't have an address requirement.  If a student that resides in Gary and wants to go to Evansville Memorial then the student can because Memorial is a private school.  I get transferring for athletic purposes, but both schools agreed that this is not the case on any of the 3.  

I say that we start a petition to get signed to gets these boys eligible. 

Not true. Every school has a "district" of some sort in the eyes of the IHSAA.

[tango]

1 hour ago, PHJIrish said:

His name is Doyel and he actually reviewed in depth the situation.  Kyle just seems to take the IHSAA and Mount Vernon's interpretation of things.  Your choice how what to believe.  It also proves the point that transfers from Cathedral play immediately, and that's not the case when a student transfers to Cathedral.  I can site many instances to prove that.

I applaud Doyel for hitting the IHSAA and Commissioner Neidig (and the MtV principal) squarely between the eyes. Its not just Cathedral, although you are probably the most visible state-wide. Any transfer from a public to a p/p gets heavily scrutinized. I've been involved in two transfer cases down here and the hypocrisy of the IHSAA is quite remarkable... 

[FastpacedO]

19 minutes ago, tango said:

I applaud Doyel for hitting the IHSAA and Commissioner Neidig (and the MtV principal) squarely between the eyes. Its not just Cathedral, although you are probably the most visible state-wide. Any transfer from a public to a p/p gets heavily scrutinized. I've been involved in two transfer cases down here and the hypocrisy of the IHSAA is quite remarkable... 

It wouldn't have surprised me if the IHSAA had decided to scrutinize your AD's son for transferring. Of course it likely wasn't since it definitely was a change of address, but I think it somewhat gets my point across of how one sided it is. 😂🤣

Edited November 26, 2024 by FastpacedO

[tango]

32 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

It wouldn't have surprised me if the IHSAA had decided to scrutinize your AD's son for transferring. Of course it likely wasn't since it definitely was a change of address, but I think it somewhat gets my point across of how one sided it is. 😂🤣

No kidding...

[BDGiant93]

After reading both articles, Doyel is right here, in my view.

[Howe]

4 hours ago, US31 said:

Not offereing an opinion on the situation regarding these atheletes, but all of us in Indy metro need to be thankful Kyle Neddenriep is the primary voice of HS sports here.  He is a true asset to what the HS sports experience is within Indy metro.  He's balanced, he has the best interests of high school sports (and all that fits in that umbrella) in mind when he goes to work each day.  I don't know that I've always agreed with everything he's written....but I've never seen any evidence he wasn't putting high school kids first in what, I'm sure, is a job with a lot of hours and pay that doesn't match the work he does.

 

Kyle Neddenriep is certainly a knowledgeable sports writer. He travels all over the Indy Metro area. I enjoy reading his work.

When Howe was open that school was a rotating door of transfers. If both schools claim the transfer was not for athletic purposes and the parent(s) or legal guardian signs off on the transfer, immediate eligibility has always been granted by the IHSAA.

[slice60]

From the most recent (November 8, 2024) quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes:

Transfers Assistant Commissioner Brian Lewis reported on transfers that have been ruled on for the period of June 1, 2024-October 30, 2024.

And this is from the June 2024 quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes:

Commissioner Paul Neidig presented the number of transfers from June 1, 2023 through May 31, 2024. He said the total number of transfers continues to be very similar year in and year out. And more than 99 percent of cases receive some form of eligibility.

As you can see, approximately 93% of transfers have been awarded Full Eligibility over the past 18 months. So many get approved but the spotlight always shines bright on the controversial denials.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on these Mt.Vernon-to-Cathedral transfers but I will offer up two thoughts on the transfer process.

1) I would be curious to know if the IHSAA consistently tracks the number of transfers in/out of each school/sport. If so, I wonder if that is taken into consideration when the IHSAA has to make a tough ruling on a disputed transfer. In other words, let's say Coach A has been the basketball coach at School A for 10 years. During that period, 15 student-athletes with significant varsity experience at their previous schools have transferred to School A which has contributed to great success for School A's basketball program. When the 16th & 17th student-athletes file the transfer paperwork to School A, does that set off alarm bells at the IHSAA?  

2) Don't forget that every student-athlete can enroll at any school* before his/her Freshmen year without any interference by the IHSAA. There are plenty of families out there who do the research up-front so that they can enroll their kid(s) as a Freshman at a school which can best meet all their academic & athletic needs.

*Some school districts with full classrooms mandate that all students must live within that school district's boundaries. 

[Titan32]

44 minutes ago, slice60 said:

From the most recent (November 8, 2024) quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes:

Transfers Assistant Commissioner Brian Lewis reported on transfers that have been ruled on for the period of June 1, 2024-October 30, 2024.

And this is from the June 2024 quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes:

Commissioner Paul Neidig presented the number of transfers from June 1, 2023 through May 31, 2024. He said the total number of transfers continues to be very similar year in and year out. And more than 99 percent of cases receive some form of eligibility.

As you can see, approximately 93% of transfers have been awarded Full Eligibility over the past 18 months. So many get approved but the spotlight always shines bright on the controversial denials.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on these Mt.Vernon-to-Cathedral transfers but I will offer up two thoughts on the transfer process.

1) I would be curious to know if the IHSAA consistently tracks the number of transfers in/out of each school/sport. If so, I wonder if that is taken into consideration when the IHSAA has to make a tough ruling on a disputed transfer. In other words, let's say Coach A has been the basketball coach at School A for 10 years. During that period, 15 student-athletes with significant varsity experience at their previous schools have transferred to School A which has contributed to great success for School A's basketball program. When the 16th & 17th student-athletes file the transfer paperwork to School A, does that set off alarm bells at the IHSAA?  

2) Don't forget that every student-athlete can enroll at any school* before his/her Freshmen year without any interference by the IHSAA. There are plenty of families out there who do the research up-front so that they can enroll their kid(s) as a Freshman at a school which can best meet all their academic & athletic needs.

*Some school districts with full classrooms mandate that all students must live within that school district's boundaries. 

It appears as if a Bonified change of address eliminates almost all issues....but not always.  Not when the sending Principle is a scumbag.  Why do these guys care, who wants to force a kid to play someplace they don't want to be.  I don't want a kid in my program that doesn't want to be there.....and I won't want to punish a kid for not wanting to be.

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, slice60 said:

From the most recent (November 8, 2024) quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes:

Transfers Assistant Commissioner Brian Lewis reported on transfers that have been ruled on for the period of June 1, 2024-October 30, 2024.

And this is from the June 2024 quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes:

Commissioner Paul Neidig presented the number of transfers from June 1, 2023 through May 31, 2024. He said the total number of transfers continues to be very similar year in and year out. And more than 99 percent of cases receive some form of eligibility.

As you can see, approximately 93% of transfers have been awarded Full Eligibility over the past 18 months. So many get approved but the spotlight always shines bright on the controversial denials.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on these Mt.Vernon-to-Cathedral transfers but I will offer up two thoughts on the transfer process.

1) I would be curious to know if the IHSAA consistently tracks the number of transfers in/out of each school/sport. If so, I wonder if that is taken into consideration when the IHSAA has to make a tough ruling on a disputed transfer. In other words, let's say Coach A has been the basketball coach at School A for 10 years. During that period, 15 student-athletes with significant varsity experience at their previous schools have transferred to School A which has contributed to great success for School A's basketball program. When the 16th & 17th student-athletes file the transfer paperwork to School A, does that set off alarm bells at the IHSAA?  

2) Don't forget that every student-athlete can enroll at any school* before his/her Freshmen year without any interference by the IHSAA. There are plenty of families out there who do the research up-front so that they can enroll their kid(s) as a Freshman at a school which can best meet all their academic & athletic needs.

*Some school districts with full classrooms mandate that all students must live within that school district's boundaries. 

What that does not show is how many of those transfer that gained full eligibility were do to a change of address. I would bet money 98-99% of the full eligibility were granted full eligibility because they physically changed address so no I don’t feel it shows the entire story.
 

dont get me started on how some skirt the change of address using a family members address or other means. Just saying