24-25 DOE Enrollments

[WWFan]

56 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

Covid?? Really?

 

It is always interesting that Fort Wayne Lures is at a 2A enrollment until the success factor pushes them to 3A.  Then, they have a healthy 3A enrollment.

I dont argue about private public debate or say they are shaving numbers or purposely keeping them low. No point. I just said above it's a possible reason when families had to make budget cuts when people were being cut out of work. I dont know why they are fluctuating so bad and to me it doesn't matter. 

[PLACfan]

Covid, recruiting, location, success, facilities, the list goes on and on.  I don't really care the "reason".  Just seems incredibly ironic that Providence has a 1A enrollment for a small period of time and then once they win it all their enrollment all of the sudden increases to a number that would have clearly had them a class up.  How convenient. 

 

As a previous poster stated, I am sure the 1A/Providence example is not the only one of this across all classes. 

[jakone]

2 hours ago, WWFan said:

I dont argue about private public debate or say they are shaving numbers or purposely keeping them low. No point. I just said above it's a possible reason when families had to make budget cuts when people were being cut out of work. I dont know why they are fluctuating so bad and to me it doesn't matter. 

You have realize some people are either stupid or biased, so they have to throw out ignorant statements to fit their narrow minded narrative.

[JQWL]

2 hours ago, PLACfan said:

Covid, recruiting, location, success, facilities, the list goes on and on.  I don't really care the "reason".  Just seems incredibly ironic that Providence has a 1A enrollment for a small period of time and then once they win it all their enrollment all of the sudden increases to a number that would have clearly had them a class up.  How convenient. 

 

As a previous poster stated, I am sure the 1A/Providence example is not the only one of this across all classes. 

Just a coincidence.

[BTF]

5 hours ago, Punttheball said:

Covid?? Really?

 

It is always interesting that Fort Wayne Lures is at a 2A enrollment until the success factor pushes them to 3A.  Then, they have a healthy 3A enrollment.

Do you have evidence of this? I don't ever remember Luers having a 3A enrollment until recently. A school built on a foundation of God manipulating enrollment numbers for the sake of winning championships would be really bad if that were true. But I don't think it is. 

[WWFan]

4 hours ago, PLACfan said:

Covid, recruiting, location, success, facilities, the list goes on and on.  I don't really care the "reason".  Just seems incredibly ironic that Providence has a 1A enrollment for a small period of time and then once they win it all their enrollment all of the sudden increases to a number that would have clearly had them a class up.  How convenient. 

 

As a previous poster stated, I am sure the 1A/Providence example is not the only one of this across all classes. 

You think if they lose in regionals or sectionals next year they are gonna shave off the 60 kids or so needed to stay down since they wont get SS points to move? Trust me I'd rather see Valley any day over Providence but hard to picture spending 20+ years in 2A just to dip your toe into 1A winning it all and then suddenly going back. Did however see they scheduled Indy Ritter and Scenia next year. 

[oldtimeqb]

On 12/20/2024 at 7:37 AM, WWFan said:

Providence in classifications 

2019/2020-385

2022/2023- 327

2024/2025- 371

Currently 418

 

Last enrollment breakdown (2024-25) freshman-102, sophomores-104, juniors-87, seniors-78. 

As I said looks like smaller classes during covid enrollment times. Although now bigger then recent history.  

 

For what it is worth, Providence named a new principal at the start of 2022 and he took over July 1, 2022. 

Crazy thing is I didn’t know that until a google search 2 minutes ago. But looking at enrollment numbers I guessed that might have happened. 

If a p/p school has - shall I say - less than desirable leadership, enrollment can quickly suffer. 

[PLACfan]

On 12/20/2024 at 5:01 PM, WWFan said:

You think if they lose in regionals or sectionals next year they are gonna shave off the 60 kids or so needed to stay down since they wont get SS points to move? Trust me I'd rather see Valley any day over Providence but hard to picture spending 20+ years in 2A just to dip your toe into 1A winning it all and then suddenly going back. Did however see they scheduled Indy Ritter and Scenia next year. 

Do I think they WOULD shave off those kids to stay, probably not.  Do I think it would be easier for them to affect enrollment numbers (in their favor) than a public school? Absolutely. 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, PLACfan said:

Do I think it would be easier for them to affect enrollment numbers (in their favor) than a public school? Absolutely.

Who cares? Whether it is easier or not, it’s only relevant if it’s happening. And there’s not a shred of credible evidence that it’s happening, has happened, or will happen in the future.

[Sparty]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

Who cares? Whether it is easier or not, it’s only relevant if it’s happening. And there’s not a shred of credible evidence that it’s happening, has happened, or will happen in the future.

Do private schools have entrance exams?

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Sparty said:

Do private schools have entrance exams?

My understanding is that most “entrance” exams are actually “placement” exams. But someone with more current p/p experience can probably provide a better answer.

[Sparty]

8 minutes ago, Bobref said:

My understanding is that most “entrance” exams are actually “placement” exams. But someone with more current p/p experience can probably provide a better answer.

P/P schools don’t take everyone then?

[Bobref]

43 minutes ago, Sparty said:

P/P schools don’t take everyone then?

As I indicated, my understanding is the exams are used to properly place the student in classes. I’m not aware of any p/p schools turning away paying customers. One exception might be special Ed students, as they may not be equipped to furnish necessary services.

[Sparty]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

As I indicated, my understanding is the exams are used to properly place the student in classes. I’m not aware of any p/p schools turning away paying customers. One exception might be special Ed students, as they may not be equipped to furnish necessary services.

Thank you.  
With the voucher system clearly in place in Indiana, why do P/P’s not have Special Education in those schools?  This is a question to all, not just Bobref. 

[foxbat]

On 12/20/2024 at 12:09 PM, PLACfan said:

Covid, recruiting, location, success, facilities, the list goes on and on.  I don't really care the "reason".  Just seems incredibly ironic that Providence has a 1A enrollment for a small period of time and then once they win it all their enrollment all of the sudden increases to a number that would have clearly had them a class up.  How convenient. 

 

As a previous poster stated, I am sure the 1A/Providence example is not the only one of this across all classes. 

Numbers used in this analysis are based on 2022 unless noted. 

That 60-student drop, cost the school roughly $840,000, assuming that they all came from the Deanery, in just a single year.  Logically, that's just the start.  A kid that you would deny in their freshman year, for whatever reason, likely doesn't apply again in his sophomore year or junior year or senior year.  So any of those freshman that wouldn't be admitted would be around $64,000 lost over a four-year span.  If only half of the kids that were "kept out" were freshman, you're talking about a loss of just under $2 million over a four-year period.  All total, assuming you cut 60 and 30 were in the freshman admittance, you're talking about $2,280,000 for a single year cut of 60 students plus ongoing fallout.   For a 1A title in football?  I'm not seeing it.  Mind you that this school won a 2A baseball title in the previous year and had a 2A boys soccer team that's won a dozen or so 2A sectionals in a row.

Then there's an even BIGGER issue.  Providence draws 299 of its 328, over 90%, from some 13 of its parishes.  How long do you think Catholic schools last when they are keeping their own parishioners from attending?  If Providence spent even a couple of years artificially blocking parishioners from entering, they would likely not be seeing an uptick as they would have poisoned their own well.

[Sparty]

4 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Numbers used in this analysis are based on 2022 unless noted. 

That 60-student drop, cost the school roughly $840,000, assuming that they all came from the Deanery, in just a single year.  Logically, that's just the start.  A kid that you would deny in their freshman year, for whatever reason, likely doesn't apply again in his sophomore year or junior year or senior year.  So any of those freshman that wouldn't be admitted would be around $64,000 lost over a four-year span.  If only half of the kids that were "kept out" were freshman, you're talking about a loss of just under $2 million over a four-year period.  All total, assuming you cut 60 and 30 were in the freshman admittance, you're talking about $2,280,000 for a single year cut of 60 students plus ongoing fallout.   For a 1A title in football?  I'm not seeing it.  Mind you that this school won a 2A baseball title in the previous year and had a 2A boys soccer team that's won a dozen or so 2A sectionals in a row.

Then there's an even BIGGER issue.  Providence draws 299 of its 328, over 90%, from some 13 of its parishes.  How long do you think Catholic schools last when they are keeping their own parishioners from attending?  If Providence spent even a couple of years artificially blocking parishioners from entering, they would likely not be seeing an uptick as they would have poisoned their own well.

Can you answer my questions from above?

[foxbat]

Just now, Sparty said:

Can you answer my questions from above?

The one about vouchers?  I'm not sure if it was asked with regard to why they don't in general or why they don't because they are receiving vouchers.  In the latter case, it's because while the legislature will tell you it's about school choice, it's at best, about limited school choice.  I think it'd be a great idea to say that, if you receive state money, you have to provide the same services that the state schools do.  Unfortunately, the legislature did not put that provision on vouchers ... instead opting to allow the "poorest of the poor" ... e.g., a household of four with an AGI of $230,880 ... to take advantage of them.  If you are sensing some sarcasm here about the "poorest of the poor," then I'm glad it's not lost as I'm not a fan of vouchers; especially in their current incarnation in Indiana.

One the other hand, if your question was more generic as to why special ed isn't at the schools, I think it's somewhat of a misnomer as there are p/p schools with special ed level students, but not necessarily with special ed programs.  And certainly not where they are servicing the full range of special ed.  This is particularly true in smaller p/p schools.   The funds aren't there for smaller of numbers of special ed kids.  I know of a situation where there was a kid at a Catholic school and his younger sister, who eventually be attending, had a feeding tube.  The school did not have the ability to be able to have resources for that specific instance, so the younger sister ended up going to the public school where her brother ended up joining her a couple of years later.

[Sparty]

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

The one about vouchers?  I'm not sure if it was asked with regard to why they don't in general or why they don't because they are receiving vouchers.  In the latter case, it's because while the legislature will tell you it's about school choice, it's at best, about limited school choice.  I think it'd be a great idea to say that, if you receive state money, you have to provide the same services that the state schools do.  Unfortunately, the legislature did not put that provision on vouchers ... instead opting to allow the "poorest of the poor" ... e.g., a household of four with an AGI of $230,880 ... to take advantage of them.  If you are sensing some sarcasm here about the "poorest of the poor," then I'm glad it's not lost as I'm not a fan of vouchers; especially in their current incarnation in Indiana.

One the other hand, if your question was more generic as to why special ed isn't at the schools, I think it's somewhat of a misnomer as there are p/p schools with special ed level students, but not necessarily with special ed programs.  And certainly not where they are servicing the full range of special ed.  This is particularly true in smaller p/p schools.   The funds aren't there for smaller of numbers of special ed kids.  I know of a situation where there was a kid at a Catholic school and his younger sister, who eventually be attending, had a feeding tube.  The school did not have the ability to be able to have resources for that specific instance, so the younger sister ended up going to the public school where her brother ended up joining her a couple of years later.

Thank you.  

[Trojanmp52]

I have never big fan of just a total number of kids in a school to determine each class.  Take in point you have school A at 2500 kids School B at 2450, one ends up say 6A the other in 5A , but school B has 1250 boys where school A has 1175. If you are going to do total number of kids you should use total number of boys your boys sport and total number for girls.

How I really think the way is should us the total number of kids that plays sports not over number. The Ihssa should have a number of,kids that file a sports physical. I feel they should us that number to determine where each school should fall in classes

[WestfieldRocks]

On 12/23/2024 at 12:28 PM, Trojanmp52 said:

I have never big fan of just a total number of kids in a school to determine each class.  Take in point you have school A at 2500 kids School B at 2450, one ends up say 6A the other in 5A , but school B has 1250 boys where school A has 1175. If you are going to do total number of kids you should use total number of boys your boys sport and total number for girls.

How I really think the way is should us the total number of kids that plays sports not over number. The Ihssa should have a number of,kids that file a sports physical. I feel they should us that number to determine where each school should fall in classes

I may be wrong, and I am sure someone here will correct me if so, but at one time the IHSAA did class for football based only on male enrollment. 

I also remember that once they went to class basketball and other sports that were previously one class, that they would put all of these other sports teams in their class by total enrollment. That was because, as an example, they did not want a school to have their boys basketball team and girls basketball team in different classes. I think that has been long gone, especially with the success factor now in play.

[US31]

10 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

I may be wrong, and I am sure someone here will correct me if so, but at one time the IHSAA did class for football based only on male enrollment. 

I also remember that once they went to class basketball and other sports that were previously one class, that they would put all of these other sports teams in their class by total enrollment. That was because, as an example, they did not want a school to have their boys basketball team and girls basketball team in different classes. I think that has been long gone, especially with the success factor now in play.

I believe at one time (into the 90’s?), classification was based on male enrollment in top 3 grades.

[CoachGallogly]

On 12/22/2024 at 11:15 AM, Sparty said:

Do private schools have entrance exams?

Varies by private school. 

[Sparty]

18 minutes ago, CoachGallogly said:

Varies by private school. 

So P/P schools receive tax dollars and don’t have to accept everyone?   Wild

[Irishman]

7 minutes ago, Sparty said:

So P/P schools receive tax dollars and don’t have to accept everyone?   Wild

Yep

[CoachGallogly]

4 hours ago, Sparty said:

So P/P schools receive tax dollars and don’t have to accept everyone?   Wild

This isn’t a new discovery. 
 

Though P/P’a get a small fraction of the tax dollars public schools do.