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Dandy Dozen - 12 Takeaways from the Semi state games


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I don't think Cathedral should elect to play up. No one else does, so why should they. On the outside looking in, I think it's easy for a fan to make that claim. But when you are a coach or an AD, it's pretty clear that the trend is to just go where the IHSAA puts you. Let's see what they do in 6A the next couple of years. If the competition is too stiff, they'll move back down. 

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Just now, BTF said:

I don't think Cathedral should elect to play up. No one else does, so why should they. On the outside looking in, I think it's easy for a fan to make that claim. But when you are a coach or an AD, it's pretty clear that the trend is to just go where the IHSAA puts you. Let's see what they do in 6A the next couple of years. If the competition is too stiff, they'll move back down. 

Agreed. I'm excited to see how Cathedral does in 6A these next two seasons. 

This specific year, Cathedral would have easily won their sectional (LC, LN, North Central would be my guess) and then went against CG in Regionals. That'd be an incredible match-up for a Regional Championship. 

 

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18 minutes ago, BTF said:

I don't think Cathedral should elect to play up. No one else does, so why should they. On the outside looking in, I think it's easy for a fan to make that claim. But when you are a coach or an AD, it's pretty clear that the trend is to just go where the IHSAA puts you. Let's see what they do in 6A the next couple of years. If the competition is too stiff, they'll move back down. 

This is the correct take, however there's been more than one poster that has suggested the opposite. They think Cathedral SHOULD play up in 6A...just because. I as a fan have no problem with Cathedral bumping up to 6A on SF points, in fact I'm ready for a new challenge. 

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27 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

This is the correct take, however there's been more than one poster that has suggested the opposite. They think Cathedral SHOULD play up in 6A...just because. I as a fan have no problem with Cathedral bumping up to 6A on SF points, in fact I'm ready for a new challenge. 

My stance has changed. I was one of those posters who felt that they should bump up. But I also felt my hometown teams of Bishop Luers and Snider should have bumped up as well. Luers for the same reason as Cathedral and Snider just for the sake rumbling with the big boys like old times. Clearly, there are no AD's or head coaches who are going to volunteer to do this, so why should anyone. Mishawaka did it, but as I said in an earlier post, they more than likely did it to avoid better competition. I'm looking forward to seeing Cathedral play in 6a (making 6a stronger) next year while 5a crowns a new champion. If the Irish don't succeed, then back down they go. The system will take care of it. 

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Yeah, good call.  I mean you resorted to "Well, Tech had a winning record, lol."

Yes, the Brownsburg win was impressive but its BEN DAVIS man.  With the way their schedule is back loaded, they are going to give you that warm and fuzzy feeling every November until realignment occurs.

It'd be like Alabama, playing their SEC schedule first, and then closing the season with Charleston Southern, Wofford and The Citadel before the SEC championship game and then citing those performances as an honest evaluation of their season.

That is not accurate.  If you wanted to say played the lower tier of the conference, that's one thing.  But those schools are not Wofford and the Citadel of high school football.  They have very good athletes.  LC was really playing well last part of the season.  NC had a down year, but had been playing very good football.  LN and Carmel was also on the back end of their regular schedule.  If you want to keep talking sectionals, no team has a choice of who they play.

BD has made 3 straight semi-state appearances.  They have just ran into a CG team those 3 years that was better.  BD has nothing to be ashamed about....and they will continue as one of the state's best.  Hard to believe a program with 3 straight semi-state appearances is getting criticized.

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9 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

That is not accurate.  If you wanted to say played the lower tier of the conference, that's one thing.  But those schools are not Wofford and the Citadel of high school football.  They have very good athletes.  LC was really playing well last part of the season.  NC had a down year, but had been playing very good football.  LN and Carmel was also on the back end of their regular schedule.  If you want to keep talking sectionals, no team has a choice of who they play.

BD has made 3 straight semi-state appearances.  They have just ran into a CG team those 3 years that was better.  BD has nothing to be ashamed about....and they will continue as one of the state's best.  Hard to believe a program with 3 straight semi-state appearances is getting criticized.

This is spot-on. And it's important to recognize that since 2003, BD has only won 2 State Championships in the past 18 years, yet have been to 3 straight Semistate games and like the above post, have lost to a better CG program (that has won 27 games in a row). It's a more equal fight in 6A than it was 20 years ago, in addition to the rising powers of the HCC. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

That is not accurate.  If you wanted to say played the lower tier of the conference, that's one thing.  But those schools are not Wofford and the Citadel of high school football.  They have very good athletes.  LC was really playing well last part of the season.  NC had a down year, but had been playing very good football.  LN and Carmel was also on the back end of their regular schedule.  If you want to keep talking sectionals, no team has a choice of who they play.

BD has made 3 straight semi-state appearances.  They have just ran into a CG team those 3 years that was better.  BD has nothing to be ashamed about....and they will continue as one of the state's best.  Hard to believe a program with 3 straight semi-state appearances is getting criticized.

Never said they should be ashamed but a program like Ben Davis doesn't measure itself by semi-state appearances.

Its no fault of their own, but their "resurgence" in the second half of the season is largely exaggerated.

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

You're crazy if you think Cathedral would volunteer to play up two classes just because a few anonymous posters on a message board think it's the noble thing to do. 

 

That's fine...then Cathedral should never be referred as one of the state's best if they refuse to play in the toughest level of the post-season tournament.  Blowing out everyone in 4A or 5A, then pumping a chest claiming to be the best or one of the best just doesn't cut it.  Earn it.

Cathedral has roster sizes every bit as large as 6A schools.  While 6A schools have larger school enrollments, they don't control who is accepted into their schools, including their athletic abilities.  Cathedral has absolute influence on the makeup of their football roster....let's not kid anyone or play the victim.

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20 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

That's fine...then Cathedral should never be referred as one of the state's best if they refuse to play in the toughest level of the post-season tournament.  Blowing out everyone in 4A or 5A, then pumping a chest claiming to be the best or one of the best just doesn't cut it.  Earn it.

Cathedral has roster sizes every bit as large as 6A schools.  While 6A schools have larger school enrollments, they don't control who is accepted into their schools, including their athletic abilities.  Cathedral has absolute influence on the makeup of their football roster....let's not kid anyone or play the victim.

Like I said....The powers that be at Cathedral don't give a s*** what Bash Riprock thinks on an anonymous message board.

Cathedral's record over the last hundred years speaks for itself, it doesn't really matter what you or anyone else thinks or says.

Edited by Footballking16
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2 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I wouldn’t lose sleep over someone who probably believes he is the commissioner of the IHSAA, but deep down inside he’s glad he’s not because then he can dream of how much better he would be as a Commissioner.  You can’t say anything to him without him ripping you to shreds.  Some of us have actual jobs and don’t have all day to be on a high school football forum.

I don't lose sleep over anything on this board. I come here to be a part of the community, and I think there are many great people on here (including Temptation) who have a great passion for it. He likes to challenge what people say, and I have no problem with him doing that. I get his main point. Ben Davis' Sectional was easy. The latter portion of their schedule was down. It still doesn't diminish getting off the mat after being at a very low point following all the unfair chatter that was out there about the school and program following the incident outside the stadium during the Carmel/BD game and playing themselves back into some part of the conversation by doing what was expected of them. Former boys basketball coach here at Ben Davis, Steve Witty always used to say, "One of the toughest things in sports is doing exactly what's expected." 

Edited by BDGiant93
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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Like I said....The powers that be at Cathedral don't give a s*** what Bash Riprock thinks on an anonymous message board.

Solid response..😆.....at least you didn't deny....

I am sure the powers at Cathedral doesn't care....trophies are more important, regardless of the level of competition.

It's interesting...kind of like Chelsea FC, playing down in the Championship...winning it, then having their fans pumping their chests that they are one of the best of the Premier League.....

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15 hours ago, NRRaider2001 said:

Mishawaka I believe 

 

14 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

Indy Scecina 

Mishawaka petitioned up toward the start of SF.  Scecina was actually in 2A by enrollment when they won state back in the very early 90s.  Their enrollment number dropped and they would have come down to 1A, but they petitioned to remain in 2A for a while before letting the enrollment run its course and dropping back down to 1A.  They ended up being bumped via SF although they were the poster school for teams getting SF'd without a blue ring in the process and then enrollment increased enough to remain in 2A.

Mishawaka Marian actually petitioned to move up two classes, if my understanding is correct, at they won 1A back in the 70s.  The IHSAA only allowed a one-class bump though.  I don't recall if they petitioned again to get to 3A or if it ended up organically by enrollment.

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19 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Solid response..😆.....at least you didn't deny....

I am sure the powers at Cathedral doesn't care....trophies are more important, regardless of the level of competition.

It's interesting...kind of like Chelsea FC, playing down in the Championship...winning it, then having their fans pumping their chests that they are one of the best of the Premier League.....

I know exactly where Cathedral stands in regards to the state's premier programs solely based on the fact that you can't keep their name out of your mouth.

RENT.FREE.DUDE. 

Edited by Footballking16
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43 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I don't lose sleep over anything on this board. I come here to be a part of the community, and I think there are many great people on here (including Temptation) who have a great passion for it. He likes to challenge what people say, and I have no problem with him doing that. I get his main point. Ben Davis' Sectional was easy. The latter portion of their schedule was down. It still doesn't diminish getting off the mat after being at a very low point following all the unfair chatter that was out there about the school and program following the incident outside the stadium during the Carmel/BD game and playing themselves back into some part of the conversation by doing what was expected of them. Former boys basketball coach here at Ben Davis, Steve Witty always used to say, "One of the toughest things in sports is doing exactly what's expected." 

Thanks for the kind words but I think that the "rebound" from the lowest part of BD's season in terms of getting off the mat was the Warren debacle followed by the sequel at LN.  They let one loss turn into two.

They played a brutal schedule that was front loaded.

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23 minutes ago, temptation said:

Thanks for the kind words but I think that the "rebound" from the lowest part of BD's season in terms of getting off the mat was the Warren debacle followed by the sequel at LN.  They let one loss turn into two.

They played a brutal schedule that was front loaded.

"The Great Ben Davis Era is now officially over. The Giants, once chased by every school in Indiana, are now just another program left in the dust by Center Grove. Hard to fathom, hard to watch".

Why are we talking Ben Davis?  DT has officially declared them dead. And he's the fantasy commissioner, not you!

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24 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

"The Great Ben Davis Era is now officially over. The Giants, once chased by every school in Indiana, are now just another program left in the dust by Center Grove. Hard to fathom, hard to watch".

Why are we talking Ben Davis?  DT has officially declared them dead. And he's the fantasy commissioner, not you!

The sad thing in all this is that Ben Davis has been extremely down since Simmons took over and is still likely the 3rd best 6A program in said time frame. Carmel has come back down to Earth since being relocated to the south bracket, but with Cathedral likely moving to 6A pushing Carmel back north, I think they are the team once again to beat as Westfield loses a huge senior class. Westfield has made massive strides the last few years but will have to wait and see if they can sustain the same level of success after losing and big senior class and Carmel going North. 

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

I know exactly where Cathedral stands in regards to the state's premier programs solely based on the fact that you can't keep their name out of your mouth.

RENT.FREE.DUDE. 

You are a hoot man....a "premier" state program that only plays at the top level when forced.  

"Rent free"...That is your "GO TO CARD" DUDE when you have no other card to play......😆  If only it were a trump card.....

The Cathedral Powers may not care what I think, but  heaven knows, you sure do.....

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19 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

You are a hoot man....a "premier" state program that only plays at the top level when forced.  

"Rent free"...That is your "GO TO CARD" DUDE when you have no other card to play......😆  If only it were a trump card.....

The Cathedral Powers may not care what I think, but  heaven knows, you sure do.....

I'd love to see you make an argument that schools like Chatard, Cathedral, New Pal aren't some of the best programs in the state despite not playing in the largest class? 

Every other thing you say is dumb, why not at least give us one more laugh?

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

 

Mishawaka petitioned up toward the start of SF.  Scecina was actually in 2A by enrollment when they won state back in the very early 90s.  Their enrollment number dropped and they would have come down to 1A, but they petitioned to remain in 2A for a while before letting the enrollment run its course and dropping back down to 1A.  They ended up being bumped via SF although they were the poster school for teams getting SF'd without a blue ring in the process and then enrollment increased enough to remain in 2A.

Mishawaka Marian actually petitioned to move up two classes, if my understanding is correct, at they won 1A back in the 70s.  The IHSAA only allowed a one-class bump though.  I don't recall if they petitioned again to get to 3A or if it ended up organically by enrollment.

Seegers was supposed to be 2A but stayed down when Scecina stayed up. They got back to back state appearances with a red and blue 

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3 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

That's fine...then Cathedral should never be referred as one of the state's best if they refuse to play in the toughest level of the post-season tournament.  Blowing out everyone in 4A or 5A, then pumping a chest claiming to be the best or one of the best just doesn't cut it.  Earn it.

Cathedral has roster sizes every bit as large as 6A schools.  While 6A schools have larger school enrollments, they don't control who is accepted into their schools, including their athletic abilities.  Cathedral has absolute influence on the makeup of their football roster....let's not kid anyone or play the victim.

The system will work itself out...next two years in 6A if we fail to maintain that class level then we go back down to 5A.

I agree and you are correct our roster size is as big or bigger than 6A schools.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the freshman team had close to 50 players this year.  There will be some attrition of course as that morphs into JV like at any other school.

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10 hours ago, BTF said:

I don't think Cathedral should elect to play up. No one else does, so why should they. On the outside looking in, I think it's easy for a fan to make that claim. But when you are a coach or an AD, it's pretty clear that the trend is to just go where the IHSAA puts you. Let's see what they do in 6A the next couple of years. If the competition is too stiff, they'll move back down. 

It wont be.  Cathedral can be as good as they want to be.  If they want to be IMG good, they have the ability to acquire the players to get to that level.  

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32 minutes ago, HHF said:

It wont be.  Cathedral can be as good as they want to be.  If they want to be IMG good, they have the ability to acquire the players to get to that level.  

A minor downturn could put them back in 5a. But I agree, they can be as good as they want to be. And kudos to the coaching staff for putting a team like that together. It's just nice to hear some of the Cathedral faithful admit to having some advantages over their public school counterparts. The "were a small school" talk makes me want to vomit. 

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