Who are the top 10 programs

[Screagle]

4 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

So, I am going to try my hand at this.  I am going by just the last ten seasons.

1. Center Grove (Has been in 6 out of the 10 state title games, 4 wins)

2. Cathedral (Won 4 titles in 5A, and been competitive in 6A)

3. Chatard (4 state title wins in last ten seasons in 3A)

4. Carmel (Has been to 5 state title games in last 10 seasons, winning 2)

5. Westfield (Has been in 4 state title games total, winning 1 in 5A,  2 appearances in 5A and 2 in 6A)

6. New Palestine (Has 4 state appearances, 3 wins and 1 Regional championship)

7. Ben Davis (Has 2 state title wins and 4 Regional championships)

8. Columbus East (Has 3 states, 2 wins and 2 Regional championships, in 4A and 5A)

9. Valparaiso (Has 2 total appearances, 1 win and 2 Regional championships)

10. Evansville Mater Dei (3 state appearances, 2 wins and 1 Regional championship)

               **The notation of Regional Champ is for seasons that ended in Semi-State, the years the teams won or appeared in state is not included in those numbers

I think I’d favor Evansville Memorial over Evansville Mater Dei. 5 state appearances. 2 titles. Title in 2 classes.  
 

[Screagle]

2 minutes ago, Screagle said:

I think I’d favor Evansville Memorial over Evansville Mater Dei. 5 state appearances. 2 titles. Title in 2 classes.  
 

Oops. Last 10 years. I think I’d still favor Memorial. 

[tango]

16 hours ago, Screagle said:

Oops. Last 10 years. I think I’d still favor Memorial. 

Interestingly enough, over the last 10 years Memorial and Mater Dei have each accumulated 15 Success Factor points. MD all in 2A and Memorial with 8 in 3A (2014-17) and 7 in 4A (2018-22). Head to head in that time the record is 6 W Blue, 4 W Red.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

22 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

Where is the small school love?

Pioneer. 2 state titles. 4 appearances. 5 regional championships. 7 sectionals.

Linton Stockton. 1 state title. 2 appearances. 4 regional championships. 5 sectionals.

Evansville Memorial. 2 titles. 3 appearances. 4 regional championships. 6 sectionals.

Indianapolis Lutheran. 2 titles. 3 appearances. 7 regional championships. 8 sectionals.

Andrean. 2 titles. 4 appearances. 5 regional championships. 6 sectionals.

 

But when you take out the numbers and factor in what they've had to work with; Pioneer, New Palestine, and Center Grove have been the 3 most impressive programs the past 10 years. Period. 

 

 

I was flipping between two sites, and man I will tell you the names started to blend after a while. In regards to the small schools in 1A and 2A, I am just not familiar enough. So, I could have curbed it by saying like 3A and up programs. That might have been more fair. Idk.. Not perfect, but interesting to do. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

22 hours ago, BTF said:

I was going to question your #9, but npcouger15 beat me to it. I just don't see Valpo as a Top 10 program. 

It's sad that your top eight are from the Indy area, but it's probably the truth. Indy has been on a different level over the last decade. 

Also sad that a Snider, Dwenger (two state titles compared to Valpo's one), or Luers isn't in the top ten. No representation from Fort Wayne, and probably rightly so. 

I mean, I could have easily thrown Penn in there...being a homer and all, but the last 3/4 seasons really kill that mood. (2 appearances (combined loss total of 91-30 with 3 regional championships.) It is comparable to a couple of the schools up there. (I only highlight the score issue, because it makes me mad)

With the Fort Wayne Schools I love Snider, but in the last 10 seasons they have won 1 title and their loss to LC was season 11. Dwenger, I will admit, I missed that one. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

22 hours ago, BTF said:

I'm presuming the students show up in full force during big games? If not, that's a serious problem. 

It's hard to not get pumped up for high school football. Too bad more people are interested in universities they have no association with and overpaid NFL franchises. Why not support the kids in their own communities? Hard to beat those Snider/Penn games for $7. Same could be said for rivalries in every area of the state. 

Well, we haven't been to state in a while but, it will be interesting to see how they turn out for the first Mishawaka game since Waka left for the NLC. 

I think games against teams like St. X are great and all, but it does not do anything for the fan base, because they probably assume we will get demolished. But, games like Snider were always exciting regular season or playoffs. I would be interested in seeing Penn play Dwenger and Snider more often, at least we would get a taste of what Carroll is playing each year. 

[BTF]

2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I mean, I could have easily thrown Penn in there...being a homer and all, but the last 3/4 seasons really kill that mood. (2 appearances (combined loss total of 91-30 with 3 regional championships.) It is comparable to a couple of the schools up there. (I only highlight the score issue, because it makes me mad)

With the Fort Wayne Schools I love Snider, but in the last 10 seasons they have won 1 title and their loss to LC was season 11. Dwenger, I will admit, I missed that one. 

Snider was inches from winning in 2016 and 2022. But they didn't, so not a contender for Top 10. 

I've got Penn and Valpo neck and neck, but neither one in the Top 10 this past decade. I think your list looked pretty good overall. 

[Lysander]

St. Matthew’s Elementary and Jr. High School 2005-2007

NFL players Zack Martin (likely Hall of Fame), Nick Martin and Ted Karras….and some number of All-State, All-American and college players at all levels (not all in football) from a school with roughly 20 males per class.

Yet somehow unable to win a CYO city championship in Indianapolis 

….and people wonder why Central Indiana dominates.

Okay…breaking the rules…not that I’ve seen them.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Lysander

[BLACKGOLD2007]

21 hours ago, BTF said:

Snider was inches from winning in 2016 and 2022. But they didn't, so not a contender for Top 10. 

I've got Penn and Valpo neck and neck, but neither one in the Top 10 this past decade. I think your list looked pretty good overall. 

I wish I could have been at those games. 

9 hours ago, Lysander said:

St. Matthew’s Elementary and Jr. High School 2005-2007

NFL players Zack Martin (likely Hall of Fame), Nick Martin and Ted Karras….and some number of All-State, All-American and college players at all levels (not all in football) from a school with roughly 20 males per class.

Yet somehow unable to win a CYO city championship in Indianapolis 

….and people wonder why Central Indiana dominates.

Okay…breaking the rules…not that I’ve seen them.

 

 

The man has a point. 

It is hard to compete when the most densely populated area in the state is churning out studs year in and year out. 

[RingLeader]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:50 PM, foxbat said:

Those are the only three that I can think of.  LCC probably came closest of those that didn't; dropping a 17-14 semi-state game on the road to eventual 2A champ RCHS back in 2014.

After bumping up Pioneer in 2020 started a freshman at Qb, beat 6A Chesterton during season, lost star RB in sectional, beat #1 Andrean in Regional before heart-breaking collapse and loss at Luers in SS.  A game they led 28-7 at halftime. Definitely had talent to win 2A. 

[BTF]

On 7/26/2023 at 4:27 AM, Lysander said:

….and people wonder why Central Indiana dominates.

Not sure I follow. Are kids born in Indy bigger, stronger, and faster?

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Not sure I follow. Are kids born in Indy bigger, stronger, and faster?

Ly can certainly speak for himself, but I interpreted his comment as to the quality of competition football players face in the city and metro area, starting when they are pretty young.  

What doesn't break you, makes you stronger........

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Not sure I follow. Are kids born in Indy bigger, stronger, and faster?

Only if your last name is Martin or Karras (although Ted wasn't born in Indy) 😁

Edited July 27, 2023 by Footballking16

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Ly can certainly speak for himself, but I interpreted his comment as to the quality of competition football players face in the city and metro area, starting when they are pretty young.  

What doesn't break you, makes you stronger........

So the big question. What makes youth football in Indy stand out from the rest? 

[Donnie Baker]

16 minutes ago, BTF said:

So the big question. What makes youth football in Indy stand out from the rest? 

City speed. State law 

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

City speed. State law 

That doesn't help. Fort Wayne, South Bend, The Region, and Evansville has that too. I'm just curious if Indy is doing something with their youth programs that the rest of the state is not. 

[Footballking16]

17 minutes ago, BTF said:

That doesn't help. Fort Wayne, South Bend, The Region, and Evansville has that too. I'm just curious if Indy is doing something with their youth programs that the rest of the state is not. 

Higher concentrate of kids, more leagues, more opportunities, etc.......just spitballing.

But seriously, at the end of the day there's good football all across the state and the ones committed to it start them young. CYO, CG bantam league, etc all have phenomenal programs the same way that IPS and Washington Twp have little to no structure. It reflects at the high school level. 

[Grover]

15 hours ago, BTF said:

So the big question. What makes youth football in Indy stand out from the rest? 

Not the sole reason but the IEFA has been a great league since the 60s.

http://iefafootball.com/

[BLACKGOLD2007]

18 hours ago, BTF said:

That doesn't help. Fort Wayne, South Bend, The Region, and Evansville has that too. I'm just curious if Indy is doing something with their youth programs that the rest of the state is not. 

Coaching helps, players in South Bend may have all the talent in the world, but cannot win a game because the coaching is either inconsistent or just not good. 

Also, every year is different: lack of Senior leaders, sometimes the size of a senior class helps or hurts, a crop of undersized players come through, the best players in the school are specializing in their preferred sport. 

But, the best coaches can overcome these issues. May not always win state or make it deep, but they will get the best from their players.

[BTF]

4 hours ago, Grover said:

Not the sole reason but the IEFA has been a great league since the 60s.

http://iefafootball.com/

Thanks for the info. 

I don't know a whole lot about Fort Wayne's youth programs, but they must be doing something right. Fort Wayne and Indy produce about the same number of NFL players per capita. 

[Grover]

10 hours ago, BTF said:

Thanks for the info. 

I don't know a whole lot about Fort Wayne's youth programs, but they must be doing something right. Fort Wayne and Indy produce about the same number of NFL players per capita. 

Great youth programs can produce great high school teams but NFL players are produced from DNA.  You can coach the hell out of a kid but if he isn't tall enough or fast enough he won't sniff the NFL.  Except maybe a kicker.  😁

[Grover]

Youth football programs are getting lots of pressure from parents who want their kids to play on travel teams that are not affiliated with any school.  Warren Central isn't in the IEFA this year for that very reason.  Zero chance I would let my kid play on one of those teams.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Grover

[Bash Riprock]

13 hours ago, Grover said:

Youth football programs are getting lots of pressure from parents who want their kids to play on travel teams that are not affiliated with any school.  Warren Central isn't in the IEFA this year for that very reason.  Zero chance I would let my kid play on one of those teams.

That is a shame about Warren not being in the IEFA this year.  They have a long history of taking the best of their in-house rec league and have them competing in the IEFA.  I didn't know this...thanks for sharing Coach Grover!!

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

16 hours ago, Grover said:

Youth football programs are getting lots of pressure from parents who want their kids to play on travel teams that are not affiliated with any school.  Warren Central isn't in the IEFA this year for that very reason.  Zero chance I would let my kid play on one of those teams.

I don’t understand what you are saying here, can you please spell it out for me?

Edited July 29, 2023 by temptation

[Grover]

IEFA teams are school affiliated and there must be a youth program supporting the team. Players must either live in the school's district or attend that school.  There are groups of parents and profiteers who prefer to put together rogue travel teams and pick kids from all over.  I single out Warren because I have high respect for their program and it is a shame that their parents are opting for rogue teams rather than school affiliated teams.