The p/p hegemony continues unabated

[WWFan]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Do you think it would have made a difference the years Providence was in 2A if they were in 1A? I don't. Park Tudor has been in 2A in the past there are about 930 students grades K-12 378 for 9-12.

Was just a general question and statement. Shesh. 

[Trojan]

In all seriousness, if everyone really wants to find a way to limit the number of p/p championships, I have a radical suggestion, limit the size of public high schools.  Indiana has absurdly large public schools, and there is no good reason for it.  This is a small state.  The fact we have six classes of football is absurd.  

Ohio has double our population, but only one high school larger than 3k and only five large than 2500.  Indiana has 19 schools larger than 2500.  Schools that large cannot serve their population well.  Cap public enrollment at 2500 and change football to four classes.  Most of the p/p's have 500-1500 in enrollment, so they would almost exclusively end up in 2A and 3A, knocking each other out.

 

Carmel, sorry, your three new high schools will knock each other out in sectionals.

[US31]

As always....the issue with p/p vs public isn't the kids they count. 

Its the kids the p/p's will never have to count. 

The kids the publics will always have to count.

Would a kid who constantly fails all his classes, is habitually absent, and often suspended for disciplinary issues; be allowed to remain at a p/p school?  The answer is he probably would have never been an applicant to begin with, but also assuredly NO...he would not be able to remain.

Public schools have to count those kids...and for some publics that is a sizeable fraction of their student body.  

 

[Just a dad]

18 minutes ago, US31 said:

As always....the issue with p/p vs public isn't the kids they count. 

Its the kids the p/p's will never have to count. 

The kids the publics will always have to count.

Would a kid who constantly fails all his classes, is habitually absent, and often suspended for disciplinary issues; be allowed to remain at a p/p school?  The answer is he probably would have never been an applicant to begin with, but also assuredly NO...he would not be able to remain.

Public schools have to count those kids...and for some publics that is a sizeable fraction of their student body.  

 

Seems like those schools have larger problems than worrying about how many football games their team wins. 

[Daniel_Bragg]

37 minutes ago, Trojan said:

In all seriousness, if everyone really wants to find a way to limit the number of p/p championships, I have a radical suggestion, limit the size of public high schools.  Indiana has absurdly large public schools, and there is no good reason for it.  This is a small state.  The fact we have six classes of football is absurd.  

Ohio has double our population, but only one high school larger than 3k and only five large than 2500.  Indiana has 19 schools larger than 2500.  Schools that large cannot serve their population well.  Cap public enrollment at 2500 and change football to four classes.  Most of the p/p's have 500-1500 in enrollment, so they would almost exclusively end up in 2A and 3A, knocking each other out.

 

Carmel, sorry, your three new high schools will knock each other out in sectionals.

Tell me you've never been to Carmel High School without saying it...

[oldtimeqb]

47 minutes ago, JQWL said:

Why would private schools need it? I've been on two different private school sites and a special education department is nowhere to be found. If you don't have students with special needs, why would you get money allocated for students with special needs?

Curious where you looked. 

https://www.reitzmemorial.org/resource-accommodations

I will agree the Life Skills classroom and student count are both smaller than a public school.  

[JQWL]

1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

Curious where you looked. 

https://www.reitzmemorial.org/resource-accommodations

I will agree the Life Skills classroom and student count are both smaller than a public school.  

I looked at Mater Dei and Providence. 

[JQWL]

1 hour ago, Just a dad said:

Seems like those schools have larger problems than worrying about how many football games their team wins. 

You just agreed with him. You're saying that publics have more problems due to their clientele that they have to focus on that makes the extra-curriculars more difficult. Let alone the other factors. 

[PHJIrish]

The annual deja vu all over again thread!  I'd be disappointed without it.😉

[oldtimeqb]

1 hour ago, JQWL said:

I looked at Mater Dei and Providence. 

Thanks.  When it comes to an IEP, 504, and the Life Skills class I am WAY out of my lane.  I was just aware of the Marian Educational Outreach program and the resources provided.  

[Just a dad]

4 hours ago, JQWL said:

You just agreed with him. You're saying that publics have more problems due to their clientele that they have to focus on that makes the extra-curriculars more difficult. Let alone the other factors. 

Some publics do have more problems. Especially the ones in urban areas. Public suburban’s tend to have all of the advantages (even over privates). Have you seen the weight room at Delta? How about the facilities at Hamilton Heights? I only reference those two because Chatard played there this year. Their facilities are beautiful. I don't even want to talk about the tax bases for Carmel/Fishers. For those few publics that do have these problems, and I would bet money that it is only a few, they have other concerns. For the rest of the publics, the majority, this argument does not apply. 
 

Additionally, I would be interested in knowing what percentage of a school is dedicated to this special “clientele” that you refer to. Maybe 5%? Will you let the privates carve out their special “clientele”? I’m referring to the kids who fill their extra-curriculars with robotics, chess club, multiple foreign languages and the other things they need to get into ivy league schools? I bet the offset wouldn’t benefit the publics in that case. 

[JQWL]

15 hours ago, WWFan said:

Was just a general question and statement. Shesh. 

Thou Shall Not Question!

[JQWL]

8 hours ago, Just a dad said:

Some publics do have more problems. Especially the ones in urban areas. Public suburban’s tend to have all of the advantages (even over privates). Have you seen the weight room at Delta? How about the facilities at Hamilton Heights? I only reference those two because Chatard played there this year. Their facilities are beautiful. I don't even want to talk about the tax bases for Carmel/Fishers. For those few publics that do have these problems, and I would bet money that it is only a few, they have other concerns. For the rest of the publics, the majority, this argument does not apply. 
 

Additionally, I would be interested in knowing what percentage of a school is dedicated to this special “clientele” that you refer to. Maybe 5%? Will you let the privates carve out their special “clientele”? I’m referring to the kids who fill their extra-curriculars with robotics, chess club, multiple foreign languages and the other things they need to get into ivy league schools? I bet the offset wouldn’t benefit the publics in that case. 

I have not seen the weight room at Delta or the facilities at Hamilton Heights. Have you? Do they give dads tours of the opponents facilities prior to tournament games? You seem to have a pretty good feel for what the majority of the state's schools are in but I believe I read you just moved to Indiana. Have you ever been to the weight room at Crawford County? Tell City? Paoli? Brownstown? North Knox? 

[jcat69]

How many of us looked up the definition of hegemony? My eyebrows are still twitching. What happened to dynasty, dominance, supremacy, etc? I miss the good days when I knew what all the words meant, big or small. I'm not sure if I still belong here, despite my mid major 1970s degree. We may need a "word of the day" topic to help keep us all up to speed. Just funnin.

[Just a dad]

1 hour ago, JQWL said:

I have not seen the weight room at Delta or the facilities at Hamilton Heights. Have you? Do they give dads tours of the opponents facilities prior to tournament games? You seem to have a pretty good feel for what the majority of the state's schools are in but I believe I read you just moved to Indiana. Have you ever been to the weight room at Crawford County? Tell City? Paoli? Brownstown? North Knox? 

I haven’t but I bet they are comparable to or better than some of the privates and probably some of the publics From what I have learned Chatard didn’t even have a home field til the last decade. They played every game on the road. Talk about a disadvantaged program. The point I constantly try to make is that every team has their challenges. They can be used as excuses or motivators. Winning organizations look for ways to maximize their outcomes under the current rules structure. Sometimes those are huge hurdles but there are a lot of kids playing college/pro sports who never won much of anything in HS sports. My goal as a parent and coach was to help kids become successful at the next level and in life. Couldn’t control the outcome of the games but I could (can)) teach kids to control and show their best attitude and effort. I bet that is what the vast majority of coaches do. They leave the complaining to the parents and alum. 

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, JQWL said:

Have you ever been to the weight room at Crawford County? Tell City? Paoli? Brownstown? North Knox? 

I bet they all kind of look this this, but probably outdoors under the bleachers: 

9 minutes ago, jcat69 said:

How many of us looked up the definition of hegemony? My eyebrows are still twitching. What happened to dynasty, dominance, supremacy, etc? I miss the good days when I knew what all the words meant, big or small. I'm not sure if I still belong here, despite my mid major 1970s degree. We may need a "word of the day" topic to help keep us all up to speed. Just funnin.

Sorry that "hegemony" is too high brow for you.

 

[JQWL]

18 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I bet they all kind of look this this, but probably outdoors under the bleachers: 

Sorry that "hegemony" is too high brow for you.

 

North Knox's weight room is actually outstanding. If he were placing a bet that the Crawford County weight room is nicer than any private school weight room, he wouldn't be able to afford tuition for his son next year.

[JQWL]

23 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

I haven’t but I bet they are comparable to or better than some of the privates and probably some of the publics From what I have learned Chatard didn’t even have a home field til the last decade. They played every game on the road. Talk about a disadvantaged program. The point I constantly try to make is that every team has their challenges. They can be used as excuses or motivators. Winning organizations look for ways to maximize their outcomes under the current rules structure. Sometimes those are huge hurdles but there are a lot of kids playing college/pro sports who never won much of anything in HS sports. My goal as a parent and coach was to help kids become successful at the next level and in life. Couldn’t control the outcome of the games but I could (can)) teach kids to control and show their best attitude and effort. I bet that is what the vast majority of coaches do. They leave the complaining to the parents and alum. 

I think you're right. I feel like I have been unfair with my opinion of private schools and the challenges their coaches face. I have never been one of the 17 coaches on the sideline of a school with 258 kids. So, what would you see as challenges that are private school coaches/teams face?

[Just a dad]

10 minutes ago, JQWL said:

I think you're right. I feel like I have been unfair with my opinion of private schools and the challenges their coaches face. I have never been one of the 17 coaches on the sideline of a school with 258 kids. So, what would you see as challenges that are private school coaches/teams face?

So now your issue is that private schools find a larger number of people to volunteer their time to act as coaches for the high school team? Or is it with the number of kids who want to play football even though they will likely never see a meaningful down on a Friday night? Not all P/P have the same challenges. Some overall challenges would be: outside interests, grades, keeping all of the kids engaged, managing parental expectations, size of facilities, availability of weight room for all of those kids, proper development of monitoring of lifting programs. I’m sure all programs have their challenges. The good ones find ways to overcome them bad the bad ones use them as excuses.

[kdets89]

17 minutes ago, JQWL said:

I think you're right. I feel like I have been unfair with my opinion of private schools and the challenges their coaches face. I have never been one of the 17 coaches on the sideline of a school with 258 kids. So, what would you see as challenges that are private school coaches/teams face?

The incessant weeping and gnashing of teeth displayed by overzealous public school fans around tournament time makes it difficult for private school coaches to enjoy the GID like any normal fan.  And that is a tragedy.

[First_Backer_Inside]

1 minute ago, kdets89 said:

The incessant weeping and gnashing of teeth displayed by overzealous public school fans around tournament time makes it difficult for private school coaches to enjoy the GID like any normal fan.  And that is a tragedy.

How are you not enjoying this thread? This is top notch GID entertainment.

[JQWL]

2 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

So now your issue is that private schools find a larger number of people to volunteer their time to act as coaches for the high school team? Or is it with the number of kids who want to play football even though they will likely never see a meaningful down on a Friday night? Not all P/P have the same challenges. Some overall challenges would be: outside interests, grades, keeping all of the kids engaged, managing parental expectations, size of facilities, availability of weight room for all of those kids, proper development of monitoring of lifting programs. I’m sure all programs have their challenges. The good ones find ways to overcome them bad the bad ones use them as excuses.

I have no issue with anyone wanting to help young men learn about football or almost anything else. I was just stating that I have never been one and was wanting to learn more about the struggles. You have successfully mentioned several generic struggles that any program has. I was thinking there were more specific to private schools. That's all.

[Muda69]

10 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

So now your issue is that private schools find a larger number of people to volunteer their time to act as coaches for the high school team? 

What kind of Youth Protection Training are these cadres of volunteer coaches required to take?

 

[JQWL]

4 minutes ago, kdets89 said:

The incessant weeping and gnashing of teeth displayed by overzealous public school fans around tournament time makes it difficult for private school coaches to enjoy the GID like any normal fan.  And that is a tragedy.

But it's not bad enough for the private schools to stop participating in the tournament with the overzealous public school fans. I 

It reminds me of travel baseball. Private schools are the Triple-A or Major team playing in a Single-A tournament early in the season just so they can win and take the picture with the ring to appease the travel ball mom in her razor back tank top. They're ring chasers and nothing more.

[kdets89]

14 minutes ago, JQWL said:

They're ring chasers and nothing more.

Yes, many of the private school coaches are ring chasers.  As are many of the public school coaches.  That seems to be the point of this particular activity.