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Sometimes it does take a lot of typing to say simply….this really is about the types of kids that do NOT attend non public schools. I agree that it is that point that is often ignored.

Although football teaches a lot about life, I still feel this life lesson talk regarding our economy, equality of outcomes, other people will always have advantages over you, is a bit of a stretch. No one is talking about equality of outcomes, we are talking about rules in sports. Let the outcomes fall where they may, but we need to fix our broken system in Indiana High School Football. What I have taught my kids is that, along with hard work...life isn't fair etc. is to not sit back and allow injustice....be the person with the courage to affect change. That is what we are talking about here. Not just sit back and suck it up because the "rules are the rules" when they are clearly broken. I would certainly hope we agree that sports need rules right? Or do we? One could conclude from your comments above that the class system itself isn't needed and football in Indiana shouldn't worry about trying to alight the classes as best as possible because...well life isn't fair so why should Indiana football be right? We are talking about a sport played by children (channeling my inner Muda there lol) and if you would read my comments a little more closely you might see I am making a counter point that continually gets glossed over when P/P guys read my posts. You may not be taking about advantages, but I am as part of my counterpoint. The same thing happens when this is brought up, trust me your response wasn't unique (neigher was my friends from CG) in that multiple folks will go into lengthy diatribes spouting what it takes to be a quality program in our state, or pointing out to me what GS, Jasper, HH, SR does well etc. That really has little to do with this. I am pulling these numbers out of my @ss, but you will get the point. Let's just say that the top third of all football schools in Indiana have all the attributes these lengthy responses mention: Coaching, work ethic (either community based or common purposed based), feeder systems, pool of athletes (community based or common purpose based), community support, admin support, etc. This top third has many public and private schools in it. GS, Memorial, Mater Dei, Jasper, CG....all of these schools have these things, so from now on let's just throw that out the window. Everyone just STOP talking about those things in these discussions. These are not the inherent advantages I am calling out. Here is the part all you P/P guys (or Publics "just need to work harder guys") need to read twice and don't respond to any other part of my post but this: You are not even the same institution type as a Public School, people pay for a service at your institution and expect a result for their 7k+ fee. You get a higher quality customer when a premium is paid, particularly vs a free service. Your enrollment make up is NOT THE SAME...it can't be...it never will be....it is simply an advantage that can't be ignored. My four kids believe that there are at least 200 kids at GS who just take up space and probably aren't concerned much with extracurriculars or in many cases even too focused on academic endeavors either. Many are only there because the law says they have to be. A subset of those might even have behavior or other issues. Another subset just wants to get that degree, get out and get that job. Additionally many publics house wonderful programs for the disabled that can affect enrollment as well. Let's do an experiment.....let's ship those 200 kids to Memorial next week. How will that affect the hallways do you think? Will the classroom environment/lesson planning/teacher focus change at all? How will the day in the life of an administrator change? And don't look now but Memorials enrollment will come in at 809, probably pushing them into 4A. How about GS, now that those 200 kids are gone how will things change do you think? How will life change for the GS administrators? One change is that the enrollment would now be 503, squarely in 2A and look at that...so similar to the enrollment of Mater Dei 497. We at GS have known for years we are much more analogous to MD than Memorial athletically. Honestly how intelligent people can sit on this forum and say that enrollment ONLY based classification is fair is mind boggling. The data is clear on the P/P dominance and what I have pointed out above is the reason. Life might not be fair but a game played by children should be. About the only thing in common in the top third schools I mention above between Publics and Privates (other than doing football well) is that they both play sports and both have books. These differences should be accounted for if we are going to play in the same tournament.

GS had 11 offensive starters and 11 defensive starters play the first 8 plays of the scrimmage. Not a single one of those kids took another snap the entire night. Central looked good at times against GS 3s and 4s. The GS JV moved the ball really well against the Central D who could have been also subbing heavil (I don't know). I think think the Central QB can throw a nice ball and will have some weapons...Central will spread it out in contrast to last years team. But there could be some concern with the Defense at this early juncture in the season.

Then why stop at the bottom 8? There isn't much of a disparity in enrollment from the bottom 8 up to the 12th largest school in the state. If its really about enrollment disparity, then don't draw an arbitrary line at the bottom 8. Unless the real motive is to keep certain schools out of 6A, while ensuring others remain in 6A, just to increase trophy chances for certain schools. Doing that would dramatically affect both 5A and 6A. https://www.ihsaa.org/Schools/Enrollments-Classifications FB16 is spot on....this really isn't about enrollment disparity. Its more about certain key schools that have been successful in 6A...its about keeping Carmel in the south so the MIC and HCC eliminate each other. Only 4 of the top 11 schools have played for 6A state titles in recent years, along with another school coming in at #17. I understand not everyone wants to get in the ring with a bigger boy. So lets take the bottom 8 in 6A, move them down....and ensure they are one of the biggest boys. Let the other schools not much larger than the bottom 8 fend for themselves in the big boy ring. Just as long as my team has a better chance of sectional hardware....that's all that matters.

We have been over this many times, and the logic doesn’t change. If the purpose of considering things like multipliers, the success factor, the “one class bump,” etc., is to move toward a balance where relatively similar teams — within reason — compete against one another, the SF is obviously the most efficient and targeted way to do that. The reason is simple. The SF does not depend on the presence or absence of theoretical “advantages” that are impossible to quantify, or “advantages” that exist, but which are not fully utilized by the schools to achieve athletic success. Rather, the SF only kicks in when advantages are utilized with the result that a team is able to consistently punch above its weight class, for whatever reason. In other words, multipliers or class bumps adjust classes for the possibility that a school has advantages which, if properly utilized, give it a leg up competitively. The SF, in contrast, adjusts those schools that actually use their advantages to excel. One is theoretical, the other is real world.

What's good GID. I'm finally back after a year long hiatus and I'm ready for some high school football. The defending Class 6A champions Center Grove Trojans travel to Warren Central to take on the Warriors. Center Grove ran the tables en route to its 3rd state title in the last two decades. Warren Central struggled to its first losing season in eight years with a 4-6 finish. The Warriors return much of their team from last year and the Trojans have heavily favored to do something that hasn't been done since 2006. Repeat as state champions. This is a great match up and I would like your opinions on who you all think will win. My prediction: the Warriors pull a 2016 and upset the defending champs in a close game 27-24. Rise up Warriors!!!

Someone gets it!

Just count your blessings that Chatard is 4A this year.

I agree that the SF is a sound concept, but the implementation has been flawed. The 2 yr. cycle is too short to detect — and promote — true “program” success, as opposed to what might be the short term effect of a single outlier class.

Well, we didn’t have all of our pieces. A lot of guys haven’t practiced much yet. Charlestown is a pretty solid 3A program. They’re comparable to the rest of the HHC outside of East. The thinking is that we will probably struggle pretty bad against Male, Manual, and East. But could win the other games. We just lost 23 Seniors from one of the best classes we’ve had in years, so im not expecting to hang the moon. Their Sophomore class is really good though.

I think the main issue with the SF is that the time period is too short. I think that @Irishman is correct in that many teams impacted by SF can sustain success a class up, I also think that's currently only impacting a smaller segment of teams than it actually could. Ultimately, I think SF could be used to help develop programs in addition to just placing programs; however, not with it's current two-year length. I think looking at the idea from a four-year period would blunt the impact that a good class has in the current negative implications of SF and also address some of @MHSTigerFan's concerns too. There's also the impact of scheduling that makes SF, in its current form, less effective. As an example, many teams in Indiana are scheduled within class or competition-level for their seasons ... that is, 1A teams tend to schedule 1A teams or lower-level 2A teams during the season. Those schedules tend to be fairly locked in for at least two-year windows. If they get bumped, the current two-year cycle means that the vast majority of teams are just going to take that two-year "sentence" and ride it out with their current schedules which are already set ... and also less likey to help them tremendously to compete in their new higher class. A 1A team that is really a 2A team, probably isn't going to be as impacted as much ... think of a team like Pioneer or LCC; although LCC's different because its schedule is already different than most 1A programs with several 2A and 3A teams on their regular schedule as part of being in the Hoosier Conference. A 1A team that can grow into 2A is more likely to yo-yo with a two-year cycle as opposed to a four-year cycle where they have more opportunity to strengthen that schedule in respond to the SF bump. With a two-year cycle, most teams that are on the cusp just ride out that two-year term whereas, with a four-year cycle, there may be some upgrading to the schedule that is seen as beneficial ... and possibly help more programs progress via SF.

I'm the same way with Ayn Rand. I've read the vast majority of her non-fiction works and differ with her a great deal ... although I do admire her thought process. On the other hand, I simply love her fiction works with Anthem being one of my all-time favorite reads.

I read it in the 9th Grade.

While it may be true that some schools are impacted by earlier classes of kids who excel, the fact is the entire enrollment based classification system does that. Every member school/team in the IHSAA is impacted by previous classes of students. Instead of just looking at a class of a couple of stud athletes impacting a program, look at the opposite end. There are a large number of schools that have students who cannot participate die to physical and/or mental health issues. In our building, that is about 8% of the population. Then there is unfortunately the population of kids who do nothing. They show up half the time, contribute little to nothing to the school, yet still count against a program. There are a number of schools across the State that feel that impact yearly. So, yeah, a program might bump up due to the success of an exceptional class. But the bump up is only for a two year cycle. While I don’t have the info in front of me, my impression is that most schools that are impacted by the SF seem to have sustained success to at least stay one class above where their enrollment would place them.

Perhaps. But that wasn’t the question put before the court. It could’ve been any plaintiff. TSSAA’s defense was that they weren’t subject to Brentwood’s due process claim, because they (the TSSAA) were a private entity, not a state actor. That had to be answered first, before the actual claim itself could be dealt with. The Supreme Court found that the TSSAA was sufficiently “entwined” with Tennessee’s public education system to be considered a state actor. They also created an entwinement test for similar future disputes. Given the IHSAA’s governing structure (pretty much entirely governed by public school administrators), it seems a foregone conclusion that the courts would consider them a state actor just as TSSAA was. As such, they’re subject to DP, EP, 1A, etc claims. Your proposal almost certainly runs afoul of the equal protection rights in the 14th amendment.

So are you inferring that they are recruiting and making offers to families to move their sons to Parke County? Could it be that families are looking for an opportunity for their sons to play football? Is it wrong for parents to not want their kid to play for one of the Terre Haute schools and play in a successful, small-town atmosphere? There are transfers all over the state. Success attracts players who want some recognition and the opportunity to play for championships. I say good for them.

I get it. Football is a zero sum game. Anything one competitor gets, another has to give up. I’m fine with leaving 6A the way it is. Just wanted to point out that the effect of the proposal would be felt in 5A, not 6A.

Any change in 6A is likely to be so small as to be undetectable. Look up the smallest 8 schools in 6A and see what they’ve done in the 6A tournament. But move them into 5A and you have the potential to dramatically affect how that tournament proceeds. The change will be in 5A, not 6A.

No, but 5A becomes way more interesting. Elaborate if you don't mind. Go into a bit more detail.

That's actually not true. Jesuit Dallas and Strake Jesuit in Houston are both UIL members. Also, in the Texas private/parochial league, there are about 230 teams playing ... about 2/3 of the state of Indiana's total football programs.

My better half has told me that since high school.

They were coordinators with Dinan being the offensive guru n Tippman being the firey defensive leader. When Isaacs(sp) left the decision came down to these two outstanding gentlemen..both brought their own spin on how to approach the sidelines and both had HC capabilities...imo they had mutual respect for one another just stunk to lose one yet I can respect his decision on wanting to lead his own program.