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6 hours ago, foxbat said:

So a change in rules?  One point in an assessment period normally doesn't keep you up nor does one point in a season.  As you stated above, it'd be nice to hear a clarification from the IHSAA just so folks have an idea of whether there's a process or just shooting from the hip.  And yes, I just heard that as it came out of my mouth with regard to the IHSAA. 🙂

 

d. If a school which has participated in a higher enrollment class during the previous reclassification
period achieves a tournament series success point value of Two (2), Three (3), Four (4) or Five (5)
points in a specific sport, such school shall remain in the same enrollment class in that sport for the
next reclassification period. The foregoing notwithstanding, if there is a change in the school’s
enrollment which would result in the school being placed in a higher enrollment class than the
enrollment class dictated by this section, then in that circumstance the school shall be placed in the
enrollment class determined by the school’s enrollment for the next reclassification period.


e. If a school which has participated in a higher enrollment class during the previous reclassification
period achieves a tournament series success point value of One (1) point or less in a specific sport,
such school shall be placed in the classification immediately below the classification previously
occupied for the next reclassification period.

In Team Sports, when Schools are subject to reclassification, a School’s reclassification shall
be dependent on the School’s previous tournament series success; the Commissioner may,
however, determine that a School’s previous tournament series success should be applied More often, or less often

 

 

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5 minutes ago, RingLeader said:

In Team Sports, when Schools are subject to reclassification, a School’s reclassification shall
be dependent on the School’s previous tournament series success; the Commissioner may,
however, determine that a School’s previous tournament series success should be applied More often, or less often

 

 

If applied evenly or logically ... no problem with that. 

However, again, using Chatard's experience to try to make sense, Chatard had eight points in two seasons while LCC had seven points in three seasons.  Chatard had a pair of state titles while LCC had a state title and a regional in the two seasons when they were in their previous classes. 

Realistically, Pioneer, Chatard, and LCC are no shrinking violets in Indiana football.  Pioneer's been to LOS five times, LCC's been eight times, and Chatard's been a whopping 16 times.  I completely understand the special commissioner treatment for a team that might have picked up six points and might have found themselves up a class on a once in a career situation, but that doesn't really apply to the likes of Pioneer, LCC, and Chatard which are well-known, at least in the last decade and a half, for punching above their weight.

I'm trying to give the IHSAA the benefit of the doubt for the movements/non-movements, but there doesn't seem to be a reasoning.  Even in the case of commissioner discretion, there should be a reasoning.  As an example using a fictitious account, "In reviewing the record of Indiana School of the Deaf who was promoted to 2A in 2021, the Commissioner has determined that special circumstance provides for Indiana School for the Deaf to revert to their original Class A position due to the once-in-a-lifetime state championship win followed by a severe dropoff in student enrollment that would place their players at risk as well as a zero-point first season in 2A on a 3-7 record."  I'm not sure that there could be a straight-faced statement as to why LCC's still in 2A and Chatard is back down in 3A ... other than, as I pointed out, a semi-logical, "Due to the 2020 season giving odd results due to the impact of COVID, the IHSAA took the 2021 results and counted them as a surrogate for both the 2020 and 2021 seasons."  While folks may not like that, it would show some level of reasoning as to the action.  In essence, a little transparency helps.

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I mostly agree with Coach May regarding the geography.  But where I think the IHSAA could have fixed the mess actually starts in the northwest.  Sectional 33 in the northwest, shouldn't have 7 teams  If the sectional is going  east to include Bremen and LaVille from Marshall County, why shouldn't it include Winamac from Pulaski Co., approximately the same distance, possibly closer. It should be 8 teams.   It would seem that the 7 team sectional is most justified by the widest sectional area, which would be #39 as it has been traditionally.  Pioneer now being placed back in 1A puts #34 at 7 teams-Winamac, so move Wabash to #34 and bump Bluffton from #36 to #35.  You can now move Winchester to #36 in the north and now there are 31 teams in the north (with the bye in #34), 31 in the south.  

My south looks like Coach May's but with proposing Winchester going north, put a bye in either #37 or #38.  Not sure how to do any better with the other teams.  Brown County doesn't improve geographically by going to #37 or #38 and making #40 a 7 team sectional.

With diesel at $5+ a gallon, let's not place a bigger burden on school transportation and athletic budgets.

Elbridge Gerry wouldn't have been prouder with #39 as it now looks.   

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7 hours ago, foxbat said:

Class 1A (63 Schools)
41. (8) Bowman Academy, Culver Community, North Judson-San Pierre, North Newton, Pioneer, South Central (Union
Mills), South Newton, Triton

42. (8): Attica, Clinton Central, Clinton Prairie, Covington, Fountain Central, North Vermillion, Park Tudor, Traders Point
Christian

43. (8): Carroll (Flora), Caston, Frontier, North White, Taylor, Tri-Central, Tri-County, West Central
44. (8): Adams Central, Fremont, Madison-Grant, North Miami, Northfield, South Adams, Southern Wells, Southwood

https://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Enrollments & Classifications/2022-23 2023-24/2022-23 2023-24 Football Assignments.pdf

 

Am I wrong that it originally had Pioneer in 2A last night? Now they're back down to 1A today? Does the IHSAA know where anyone is actually going or will this change again?

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8 minutes ago, Basementbias said:

Am I wrong that it originally had Pioneer in 2A last night? Now they're back down to 1A today? Does the IHSAA know where anyone is actually going or will this change again?

I think they had changed it before last night, but you are correct that they were originally in 2A and are now showing up in 1A's documents.  As for whether they are done or not, your guess is as good as mine.

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16 hours ago, foxbat said:

If applied evenly or logically ... no problem with that. 

However, again, using Chatard's experience to try to make sense, Chatard had eight points in two seasons while LCC had seven points in three seasons.  Chatard had a pair of state titles while LCC had a state title and a regional in the two seasons when they were in their previous classes. 

Realistically, Pioneer, Chatard, and LCC are no shrinking violets in Indiana football.  Pioneer's been to LOS five times, LCC's been eight times, and Chatard's been a whopping 16 times.  I completely understand the special commissioner treatment for a team that might have picked up six points and might have found themselves up a class on a once in a career situation, but that doesn't really apply to the likes of Pioneer, LCC, and Chatard which are well-known, at least in the last decade and a half, for punching above their weight.

I'm trying to give the IHSAA the benefit of the doubt for the movements/non-movements, but there doesn't seem to be a reasoning.  Even in the case of commissioner discretion, there should be a reasoning.  As an example using a fictitious account, "In reviewing the record of Indiana School of the Deaf who was promoted to 2A in 2021, the Commissioner has determined that special circumstance provides for Indiana School for the Deaf to revert to their original Class A position due to the once-in-a-lifetime state championship win followed by a severe dropoff in student enrollment that would place their players at risk as well as a zero-point first season in 2A on a 3-7 record."  I'm not sure that there could be a straight-faced statement as to why LCC's still in 2A and Chatard is back down in 3A ... other than, as I pointed out, a semi-logical, "Due to the 2020 season giving odd results due to the impact of COVID, the IHSAA took the 2021 results and counted them as a surrogate for both the 2020 and 2021 seasons."  While folks may not like that, it would show some level of reasoning as to the action.  In essence, a little transparency helps.

There is a PIONEER FOOTBALL Facebook group that has several thousand followers and whoever runs the page made a post about being switched from 2A to 1A. Using emojis, they expressed happiness with their 2A placement and anger with their 1A placement. There's no justification for placing Pioneer in what is basically the "region" sectional other than pure laziness by the IHSAA.

 

The IHSAA needs to release a statement explaining their actions as it is very puzzling for all parties involved.  

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12 minutes ago, AG said:

There is a PIONEER FOOTBALL Facebook group that has several thousand followers and whoever runs the page made a post about being switched from 2A to 1A. Using emojis, they expressed happiness with their 2A placement and anger with their 1A placement. There's no justification for placing Pioneer in what is basically the "region" sectional other than pure laziness by the IHSAA.

 

The IHSAA needs to release a statement explaining their actions as it is very puzzling for all parties involved.  

That Sectional had 7 teams. Either re do the whole 1A North, or make Pioneer #8.

That was their thinking. Conference foes Triton and Judson are in that Sectional with them as well. The only "Region" team is Bowman, and South Central.

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21 minutes ago, AG said:

There is a PIONEER FOOTBALL Facebook group that has several thousand followers and whoever runs the page made a post about being switched from 2A to 1A. Using emojis, they expressed happiness with their 2A placement and anger with their 1A placement. There's no justification for placing Pioneer in what is basically the "region" sectional other than pure laziness by the IHSAA.

 

The IHSAA needs to release a statement explaining their actions as it is very puzzling for all parties involved.  

I'm assuming that the IHSAA just used 2021's performance for SF decisions for schools that were playing up. Again, it would just be nice if there was official clarification from the IHSAA, but I don't have much faith that we'll get that from them.

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I apologize for reposting but it was pointed out to me that in #5 I convenientely left out the distance from Sullivan, Linton & North Knox to Tell City. I added those mileage comparison, which except for Sullivan to Tell City the other 2 are still shorter than the drives in the approved sectional 39. 
 
 
 
When you look at a map there are 16 teams in the south, 8 teams in the southeast {sectional 39 below} and 8 teams in the southwest {sectional 40 below}, which would have been two perfect geographical based sectionals.  Then sectional 37 would have been Indianapolis then to the West, while sectional 38 would have been Indianapolis then to the East. Both sectional 37 & 38 would also have been better geographically which I describe later on. 
This would NOT affect the 4 northern sectionals.
 
CLASS 2A SOUTHERN SECTIONALS BASED ON GEOGRAPHY
37- Cascade, Christel House, Greencastle, Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter, Indianapolis Scecina Memorial, North Putnam, South Vermillion & Southmont
 
38- Eastern Hancock, Heritage Christian, Lapel, Northeastern, Shenandoah, Triton Central, Union County & Winchester
 
39- Brown County, Brownstown Central, Clarksville, Crawford County, Eastern {Pekin}, Mitchell, Paoli & Switzerland County
 
40- Evansville Mater Dei, Forest Park, Linton-Stockton, North Knox, North Posey, Perry Central, Sullivan & Tell City
 
        Sectional 40- was an easy adjustment, why was it changed??
        a} Past 3 years Linton-Stockton & North Knox have been in sectional 40, why move them to sectional 37?
        b} South Spencer dropped to 1A, Sullivan dropped to 2A, easy switch, put Sullivan in Sectional 40. They have been in Sectional 40 before.
        c} Perry Central moved up to 2A- they are farther west then Crawford County, Perry Central in sectional 40 and move Crawford County to 39.
 
 
 
Approved Sectionals
Instead of what's listed above the Class 2A sectional 39 that was approved, has one team on the Ohio River {Switzerland County}, plus Eastern, Clarksville and Brownstown Central having to drive to Indianapolis {Scecina Memorial HS, Christel House HS & Triton Central HS} instead of being in the same sectional as Paoli, Mitchell & Crawford County. To be honest, this does not make any sense to us? 
 
Listed below are different mileage Comparison for sectionals 37, 38, 39 & 40
 
1} Approved Sectional 39
    a} Brownstown Central - 
        to Scecina Memorial 77 miles
         to Christel House 71 miles,      
         to Triton Central  68 miles
    
  b} Clarksville - 
         to Scecina Memorial 114 miles, 
         to Christel House 107 miles,
         to Triton Central  104 miles
 
   c}  Eastern
        to Scecina Memorial 113 miles
        to Christel House 108 miles
        to Triton Central  105 miles
 
   d} Switzerland County- 
       to Scecina Memorial 105 miles
        to Christel House 108 miles
        to Triton Central  88 miles
 
 
2} Geographical based sectional 39 that's listed above- 
    All 4 schools are considerably closer to Crawford Co, Mitchell & Paoli then to Scecina Memorial, Christel House & Triton Central
   a} Brownstown Central 
       to Crawford County 62 miles       
       to Paoli  43 miles                    
       to Mitchell  36 miles
 
   b} Clarksville                    
      to Crawford County 43 miles      
      to Paoli  48 miles                    
      to Mitchell  56 miles
 
   c} Eastern                       
       to Crawford County 38 miles      
       to Paoli  32 miles                   
       to Mitchell  35 miles
 
   d} Switzerland County     
       to Crawford County 112 miles     
       to Paoli   84 miles                   
       to Mitchell 86 miles
 
 
3} Mileage Comparison For Scecina Memorial in sectional 37 listed above instead of approved sectional 39- 
    All schools are closer to Scecina (and Christel House) in this sectional 37- then the approved sectional 39
    to South Vermillion  98 miles      
    to Southmont 55 miles
    to North Putnam 52 miles
    to Greencastle 48 miles
    to Cascade 36 miles
 
 
4} Mileage Comparison for Triton Central in sectional 38 listed above instead of approved sectional 39- 
    All schools are closer to Triton Central in this sectional 38- then the approved sectional 39
   to Winchester 85 miles
   to Northeastern  85 miles
   to Union County 60 miles
   to Shenandoah 46 miles
   to Lapel  45 miles
  to Eastern Hancock 29 Miles
 
 
5} Mileage Comparison - Geographical based sectional 40, compared with approved sectional 39- 
    All 3 schools have less travel in Sectional 40- then Brownstown Central, Clarksville, Eastern & Switzerland County have in approved 39, except Sullivan to Tell City
   Sullivan -      
   to Tell City 112 miles 
    to Perry Central 101 miles       
    to Forest Park  80 miles     
    to North Posey  79 miles   
    to Mater Dei 87 miles
 
   Linton-        
    to Tell City 98 miles   
    to Perry Central  91 miles       
    to Forest Park  69 miles   
     to North Posey  83 miles     
     to Mater Dei 98 miles
 
   North Knox-   
   to Tell City 86 miles 
    to Perry Central  82 miles      
    to Forest Park  60 miles  
    to North Posey   65 miles     
    to Mater Dei 73 miles
 
 
In conclusion, over the past few months you have made some changes in regards to mistakes made in enrollment classifications (with the private schools) and the success factor (with Pioneer).  Hopefully you will take the time to look over the approved Class 2A sectional assignments and realize that there is a better geographical way to align the south. With inflation and the rise in gas prices it would benefit all schools to align the sectionals based on geography.
Thank you for your time.
 
 
Reed May
Head Football Coach
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4 hours ago, FlyingHigh said:

I'm assuming that the IHSAA just used 2021's performance for SF decisions for schools that were playing up. Again, it would just be nice if there was official clarification from the IHSAA, but I don't have much faith that we'll get that from them.

Bingo.

 

2021 points still don't explain LCC being in 2A. I'm sure LCC is in the same mindset as Pioneer and others in regards to playing whoever whenever, but in the spirit of competitive fairness SSF should have been wiped clean if the IHSAA can't properly and evenly enforce it. Or better yet just get rid of it al together. I don't understand the thought process of punishing future teams for the success of the past.

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5 hours ago, CoachDurham said:

That Sectional had 7 teams. Either re do the whole 1A North, or make Pioneer #8.

That was their thinking. Conference foes Triton and Judson are in that Sectional with them as well. The only "Region" team is Bowman, and South Central.

Or just switch Pioneer and West Central. Voila.

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32 minutes ago, FarmerFran said:

Bingo.

 

2021 points still don't explain LCC being in 2A. I'm sure LCC is in the same mindset as Pioneer and others in regards to playing whoever whenever, but in the spirit of competitive fairness SSF should have been wiped clean if the IHSAA can't properly and evenly enforce it. Or better yet just get rid of it al together. I don't understand the thought process of punishing future teams for the success of the past.

LCC won sectional in 2021. In a normal 2-year reclassification period, would a single sectional championship keep a team up?

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8 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

LCC won sectional in 2021. In a normal 2-year reclassification period, would a single sectional championship keep a team up?

Better yet...In a normal 2-year reclassification period, would two sectional championships keep a team up?

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19 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

LCC won sectional in 2021. In a normal 2-year reclassification period, would a single sectional championship keep a team up?

In a normal 2 year period 2 points are needed to stay up a class. 1 point for sectional, 2 points for a Regional.

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27 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

LCC won sectional in 2021. In a normal 2-year reclassification period, would a single sectional championship keep a team up?

 

18 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

Better yet...In a normal 2-year reclassification period, would two sectional championships keep a team up?

 

7 minutes ago, FarmerFran said:

In a normal 2 year period 2 points are needed to stay up a class. 1 point for sectional, 2 points for a Regional.

One point in a two-year classification period gets you sent back down.  Two points, whether two sectionals in two consecutive classification seasons or a regional and no sectional in two consecutive classification seasons.  In essence a regional or two sections counts for two points and keeps you up.

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On 5/3/2022 at 6:12 PM, foxbat said:

Heard West Lafayette was caught eating burgers on Friday during Lent and excommunicated from the Catholic Invitational Sectional.

Hamilton Heights supplies the fish from Morse Reservoir is the only reason we're still in it. It's now known as the Sectional of a Possibly Slower Death.

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10 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Hamilton Heights supplies the fish from Morse Reservoir is the only reason we're still in it. It's now known as the Sectional of a Possibly Slower Death.

I'm not dead yet - Album on Imgur

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23 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Am I wrong that it originally had Pioneer in 2A last night? Now they're back down to 1A today? Does the IHSAA know where anyone is actually going or will this change again?

Hopefully it stays.  Now that Busco is in 2A there isn’t anyone else in the North for the jets to play.

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2 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:

Hopefully it stays.  Now that Busco is in 2A there isn’t anyone else in the North for the jets to play.

North Judson will be really good and is probably the favorite to win that sectional.

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11 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:

Hopefully it stays.  Now that Busco is in 2A there isn’t anyone else in the North for the jets to play.

Pioneer and North Judson. Possibly Triton too.

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1 hour ago, Basementbias said:

Pioneer and North Judson. Possibly Triton too.

According to the rosters posted on Maxpreps, North Judson only lost 6 seniors from last years squad. I've been told very good things about this upcoming team and it will be very interesting to see if Pioneer and North Judson will end up playing one another in back to back weeks, as they are scheduled to play in week 9. Hopefully they'll be able to meet in the sectional final for a real dandy.

Triton only lost 4 players from last years squad and has 53 players listed on the roster! They have a big freshman class of 16 players coming in.

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23 hours ago, AG said:

There is a PIONEER FOOTBALL Facebook group that has several thousand followers and whoever runs the page made a post about being switched from 2A to 1A. Using emojis, they expressed happiness with their 2A placement and anger with their 1A placement. There's no justification for placing Pioneer in what is basically the "region" sectional other than pure laziness by the IHSAA.

 

The IHSAA needs to release a statement explaining their actions as it is very puzzling for all parties involved.  

Minor correction. It wasn't the group that posted the reaction, it was a member of the program who commented. It tells me that even those inside of the program had little to no idea what was going on. This is a bad look by the IHSAA, but I honestly doubt that they care.

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13 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:

Hopefully it stays.  Now that Busco is in 2A there isn’t anyone else in the North for the jets to play.

What does Pioneer bring back?  I don't think NJ or Triton can challenge the Jets.  They have a very strong current sophomore class.

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