Crusty Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 This question came to me last night as I was watching my favorite team the Mishawaka Caveman... Has there ever been a team in Indiana that lost a game where they were up 35 with the mercy rule in play. Very unlikely I admit but things happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Bobref said: No. Does the clock continue to run when the mercy ruled team cuts the deficit to 28........21? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 1 minute ago, BTF said: Does the clock continue to run when the mercy ruled team cuts the deficit to 28........21? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Lysander said: Yes. Then I can't imagine a team would have enough time to score 5 touchdowns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 1 hour ago, BTF said: Then I can't imagine a team would have enough time to score 5 touchdowns. That's kind of what I was thinking. Five TDs is a lot to come from behind on with a regular clock. With a running clock, you'd have to be pretty dang near perfect ... which would beg the question about whether said perfection would have been better-served in the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, foxbat said: That's kind of what I was thinking. Five TDs is a lot to come from behind on with a regular clock. With a running clock, you'd have to be pretty dang near perfect ... which would beg the question about whether said perfection would have been better-served in the first half. If you're bad enough to go down 35, there's no way you're good enough to score 35 with a running clock against the team that just mercy ruled you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 get rid of the mercy rule 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksfan Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Does the clock continue to run when the mercy ruled team cuts the deficit to 28........21? Yes. No, it does not. Once the running clock begins it continues until end of the game. NFHS 2019 or 2018 rule change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gindie Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, bucksfan said: Does the clock continue to run when the mercy ruled team cuts the deficit to 28........21? Yes. No, it does not. Once the running clock begins it continues until end of the game. NFHS 2019 or 2018 rule change. In Ohio, if the score margin drops below the threshold (30?), normal timing resumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksfan Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 That must be a state adopted rule, we use the NHFS rule here in IN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, bucksfan said: That must be a state adopted rule, we use the NHFS rule here in IN. Actually, there is no uniform NF rule. It merely states: “By state association adoption, a point differential may be established whereby if one team has gained the established point differential, the game shall be terminated. A state association may also establish guidelines to use a running game clock when the point differential is reached.” So, each state fashions their own “Mercy Rule.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksfan Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Sorry Bob Ref, several states use ours, I thought it was a NFHS rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 17 minutes ago, bucksfan said: Sorry Bob Ref, several states use ours, I thought it was a NFHS rule. No problem. I don’t have actual numbers, but I believe the Indiana formulation is one of the more common such rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustRules Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 8 hours ago, bucksfan said: Sorry Bob Ref, several states use ours, I thought it was a NFHS rule. We were one of the last states to add a mercy rule so if we mirror anyone we were not in the leadership role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npcougar15 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 On 11/5/2022 at 6:10 PM, Crusty said: Very unlikely I admit but things happen. I think it's probably impossible and you'll never see it. Not necessarily because it would be extremely difficult to score 5+ TD's in that time (which it would). But the way the current rule works is if the team from behind mounted a comeback to get within 2 TDs then the team with the lead could literally false start or jump offsides or commit whatever penalty before the snap the rest of the game and win; because eventually the clock will run out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 29 minutes ago, npcougar15 said: then the team with the lead could literally false start or jump offsides or commit whatever penalty before the snap the rest of the game and win; because eventually the clock will run out. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npcougar15 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 10 hours ago, Bobref said: No. thanks for explanation. Care to elaborate? During the NP/Hobart game Hobart scored 2 TD's in the second half against #2s; they weren't going to win the game but they definitely were going for it. NP had a couple of pre-snap penalties (offsides on defense and a couple false starts on offense). Don't think it was done on purpose as it was freshman playing in garbage time of a sectional championship, seemed more like nerves. But about 4 minutes came off the clock because the crew took 20 seconds the walk off the penalty, play clock would reset, and time kept ticking off. That's when the idea popped into my head and even the Hobart broadcast crew started to talk about that as a strategy. So is there a rule combat this? How many false starts can a team have until it's deemed on purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, npcougar15 said: thanks for explanation. Care to elaborate? During the NP/Hobart game Hobart scored 2 TD's in the second half against #2s; they weren't going to win the game but they definitely were going for it. NP had a couple of pre-snap penalties (offsides on defense and a couple false starts on offense). Don't think it was done on purpose as it was freshman playing in garbage time of a sectional championship, seemed more like nerves. But about 4 minutes came off the clock because the crew took 20 seconds the walk off the penalty, play clock would reset, and time kept ticking off. That's when the idea popped into my head and even the Hobart broadcast crew started to talk about that as a strategy. So is there a rule combat this? How many false starts can a team have until it's deemed on purpose? Rule 4-3-6 “When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the game or play clock started or stopped.” It’s entirely within the judgment and discretion of the Referee. That’s why wearing that white hat is such an awesome responsibility. There is literally nothing that goes on from the moment you walk on the field until the game is over that you don’t control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 I would consider the mercy rule as used in Indiana from games I have seen to be akin to Burt Reynolds for Ned Beatty's hostage situation in the movie "Deliverance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDGiant93 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Having seen the mercy rule applied multiple times since it was adopted, I think it works well. The closest I've ever seen to a comeback in 30+ years of watching high school football at Ben Davis was a Regional game at Warren in 2000. Ben Davis got out to a 35-0 lead. Warren scored 30 in a row. BD closed out with 30 of their own in a row. 65-30 was the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 IF I was playing for a sectional title or beyond, even if vastly overmatched, I would personally prefer to get all the reps and experience possible in a game of that magnitude without speeding game up with running clock. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punttheball Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ragdoll said: IF I was playing for a sectional title or beyond, even if vastly overmatched, I would personally prefer to get all the reps and experience possible in a game of that magnitude without speeding game up with running clock. Any thoughts? I get your point, but there are plenty of lopsided sectional finals because of a favorable draw on one side of the bracket. There are some teams that do not take their foot off the gas. It is their choice, so I'm not debating that. But being on the wrong side of a beat down that won't stop does not help your program. IMO Edited November 17, 2022 by Punttheball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDB26 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 6 hours ago, BDGiant93 said: Having seen the mercy rule applied multiple times since it was adopted, I think it works well. The closest I've ever seen to a comeback in 30+ years of watching high school football at Ben Davis was a Regional game at Warren in 2000. Ben Davis got out to a 35-0 lead. Warren scored 30 in a row. BD closed out with 30 of their own in a row. 65-30 was the final. I've never been a fan of the mercy rule, but I understand the rationale. It would be harmless to include a provision that reinstates normal timekeeping when the margin is reduced to less than 35 points. Just because it hasn't happened–even if it's highly unlikely–doesn't mean it won't. 4 hours ago, ragdoll said: IF I was playing for a sectional title or beyond, even if vastly overmatched, I would personally prefer to get all the reps and experience possible in a game of that magnitude without speeding game up with running clock. Any thoughts? I don't know about the reps since the magnitude of the situation is likely nullified by the lopsided score. But, if I'm putting myself in the shoes of a senior–having been defeated myself as a senior by a mercy-rule inducing score–I wouldn't like to have that last half shortened in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) On 11/16/2022 at 2:20 PM, ragdoll said: I would consider the mercy rule as used in Indiana from games I have seen to be akin to Burt Reynolds for Ned Beatty's hostage situation in the movie "Deliverance." Well... that's definitely one way to describe it. Edited November 17, 2022 by scarab527 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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