IHSAA plans to study one-time 'free' transfer after freshman year for high school athletes

[tango]

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

All I know is this, a ticked-off administrator or coach from the sending school should have zero say in the matter.  A system that allows them to have a say is fundamentally broken.

Agreed, including a ticked off coach or administrator from my own school. Take 'em all out of the equation.

[Formerly Number 39]

Would the free transfer be exercisable any time after the student's freshmen year or only exercisable between a student's freshmen and sophomore year? 

[jets]

4 hours ago, tango said:

Do you think the IHSAA doesn't regulate transfers now? Do you think having a 1 free transfer rule helps p/p schools more than public schools? I'm interested to hear your opinion.

A rural school like SR probably doesn't run into this very often, but in Evansville and the immediate area we do. Titan32 knows the situations better than I, but a couple of years ago 2 Castle kids switched to GS.  One had to fight the IHSAA all the way to the top. The other didn't. As I understand it, the only difference was 1 had some family support that allowed him to jump through the right hoops and the other kid didn't. I use that example only because it was 2 kids leaving the same school, going to the same school and at the same time. It was crazy. 

We've had a few kids transfer in or transfer out in the past couple of years. Some had to fight and some didn't This kind of rule eliminates the BS and takes the decisions from the hands of people who are sometimes not looking after the best interests of the kid (regardless of what they say). I feel very strongly that at Memorial we should NEVER block a kid from having full eligibility somewhere else, even if the reason for the transfer is purely due to athletics. Why punish a kid because he/she wants a change of scenery? 

 

 

Well...since you asked- NO, I don't think they do a very good job of it - but every situation has its own circumstances so undoubtedly it has to be an almost impossible job. I think they do the best job they can.

As far as this new rule...it comes across to me as the IHSAA looking for the easy way out of things. And I think, much like college sports are experiencing now - it can lead to a slippery slope kind of deal.

Where we sit - you'd just like to see as much of an even playing field as possible. In an ideal world - you start in the youth leagues with your buddies in 3rd or 4th grade - you stick with it, and you play with the pretty much same group of buddies you've spent your whole life with. I think about those kiddos who did that, only to be told their senior year "ya sorry, but we've brought in this stud left tackle who is gonna play over you now so we can have a better shot" ....just doesn't sit right with me. 

That said - no coach in their right mind would turn down an opportunity to better their chances at success on the field ...I'm not that naive.  

As you've said - geography (being in a city or on the suburbs of one) plays a large role in how much if affects ones program. As is life

[Komets2727]

Here are some thoughts:

1. I have witnessed too many kids to even count that have transferred from one school to another without having to sit out a year. I have seen everything from this school doesn’t have the specialty class I like, to kids supposedly being bullied with zero evidence of any bullying, to parents literally moving across the street to be in another school district, to parents  renting an apartment in a school district just to say they lived there when they didn’t.

2. When does the school have the students best interests in mind when deciding to try and fight a transfer? I have seen where some kids are allowed to transfer without penalty and some where the school fought tooth and nail to try and make the kid sit out. It seems when the parents have money and threaten lawsuits and court, the school caves in

3. Finally, why is it that schools fight over a supposed athletic transfer but not over an academic transfer? At the the end of the day, kids need to put themselves in the best possible light to further themselves to go to college for as cheaply as possible, whether it’s thru sports, academics, or financial aid 

Since I graduated in the 80’s, the landscape is night and day different now. I was a hardliner on this topic until a few years ago and have softened my stance on kids transferring schools. I still get mad when kids take major advantage of the system and lie about why they want to transfer. I don’t know, need some more beers in me to clear my head….🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

[BDGiant93]

To me, it seems like the transfer rules are applied unevenly. Some rather eyebrow-raising ones sail right through. Others that seem like slam dunks are held up or denied or have to go through the courts.

I don't have a problem with the one free transfer as long as undue influence is not allowed. I also think what some schools do...which is right on the line...needs to be reviewed. Finally, you should be scrutinized if you are a lay head coach with AAU ties. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:43 AM, Muda69 said:

NIL $ can't be far behind.

 

If they start paying high school football players....I quit. This is out of control at that point.

It is already bad with paying players who have not achieved anything at the College ranks....thousands if not millions of dollars. 

[Muda69]

6 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

If they start paying high school football players....I quit. This is out of control at that point.

It is already bad with paying players who have not achieved anything at the College ranks....thousands if not millions of dollars. 

Like was previously posted it is already legal in Michigan.   

Just think of all the Carson Steele or Jack Kiser jerseys that could have been sold during their H.S. playing days.   Shouldn't they be able to reap some of the reward?

 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

17 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Like was previously posted it is already legal in Michigan.   

Just think of all the Carson Steele or Jack Kiser jerseys that could have been sold during their H.S. playing days.   Shouldn't they be able to reap some of the reward?

 

Honestly Muda, how many people are going out to purchase a High School jersey? IDK, high school football is not a billion dollar industry. Some of these kids are amazingly talented...they can make their bones with NIL in college and even if they are lucky in the pros. 

Jersey's are highly over priced and the percentage earned from the sale of a unit sold is less than 5% on average in the College ranks. If the Jersey is $140 and the cut is 4% the players get like $5. If over the span of a season the schools sells 100 units...yeah a kid is going to be happy to get $500. But, are there 100 people in each community that is ready to shell out $140 for a High school player's uniform? I would say no not likely. 

 

https://www.outkick.com/sports/college-football-players-receiving-laughably-small-cut-of-jersey-sales-report

Edited May 7 by BLACKGOLD2007

[Muda69]

4 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Honestly Muda, how many people are going out to purchase a High School jersey? IDK, high school football is not a billion dollar industry. Some of these kids are amazingly talented...they can make their bones with NIL in college and even if they are lucky in the pros. 

Jersey's are highly over priced and the percentage earned from the sale of a unit sold is less than 5% on average in the College ranks. If the Jersey is $140 and the cut is 4% the players get like $5. If over the span of a season the schools sells 100 units...yeah a kid is going to be happy to get $500. But, are there 100 people in each community that is ready to shell out $140 for a High school player's uniform? I would say no not likely. 

 

https://www.outkick.com/sports/college-football-players-receiving-laughably-small-cut-of-jersey-sales-report

Setup a stand across from the Center Grove stadium or The Pit and watch the $ roll in.  

[Komets2727]

56 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

If they start paying high school football players....I quit. This is out of control at that point.

It is already bad with paying players who have not achieved anything at the College ranks....thousands if not millions of dollars. 

100% with you on this

[PDB26]

On 5/7/2024 at 1:14 PM, Muda69 said:

Like was previously posted it is already legal in Michigan.   

Just think of all the Carson Steele or Jack Kiser jerseys that could have been sold during their H.S. playing days.   Shouldn't they be able to reap some of the reward?

 

Looks like the bill is still in Michigan's senate committee on oversight. https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2023-HB-4816&QueryID=159688044

Basically, the bill seeks to: protect athletes' rights to enter into contracts within certain boundaries, create additional protections for minors from unscrupulous adults, mitigate abuse by schools or those adjacent to them, and ensure athlete eligibility in the age of social media influencing. Fairly reasonable legislation.

[Formerly Number 39]

We have NIL for high school players here in California, but I haven't really seen that much impact, yet. The power programs before NIL are the same power programs after its implementation. 

[Lysander]

On 5/6/2024 at 12:17 PM, Daniel_Bragg said:

We're getting dangerously close to abandoning "education-based athletics".

Oh..."education-based athletics" isn't just abandoned....it's LONG abandoned based on everything I've seen here so far. It truly amazes me how little folks here seem to so willingly walk away from this.

Sorry.

Count me as being opposed and thinking community and commitment (religious or geographic) actually means something...  

In the end, it really rarely matters just what HS some extraordinary football players went to that ultimately determined whether they played D1....or made it to the pros.  The HS didn't mean anything. 

Talent RISES.

More often than not,  I read about some kid who played on a team that never made it out of Sectionals that ends up with a Super Bowl Ring and I'm AMAZED....just how could this crappy HS football program end up with a SUPERBOWL player?!?!?

Happens all the time.

Whatever you folks think, the cream most always rises.  Transferring all over the d@mn place might get you (and your HS) a State Ring BUT it doesn't matter a single bit about whether great athletes get College opportunities.....

In the end, all this transfer BS is about potential State Rings. 

I just wish fans, parents and players would be honest and admit it.

 

 

[olinecoach]

One aspect that often gets missed in this overall discussion is the impact that the state legislature has on decisions like these. Constant pressure on the IHSAA to make changes to its policies (or not realizing the IHSAA already has a policy) play a large roll. There are very few "education based" legislators, so many are blind to any other problems that may spring up from what they might see as a good idea or policy to implement. 

 

As for the "study" part, that will be interesting to see how it is done and what data is actually being studied. 

[Footballking16]

7 hours ago, Lysander said:

Whatever you folks think, the cream most always rises.  Transferring all over the d@mn place might get you (and your HS) a State Ring BUT it doesn't matter a single bit about whether great athletes get College opportunities.....

In the end, all this transfer BS is about potential State Rings. 

I'd say it's a lot more about exposure and opportunity than a state ring.

[CoachMack219]

36 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I'd say it's a lot more about exposure and opportunity than a state ring.

I'd agree. Not every coach/ program is handling the recruiting of their student-athletes the same/ the way that they SHOULD be handling the recruiting of their student-athletes (sad but true). Parents value schools/ programs/ coaches that give their kids the opportunities to achieve their dreams and if that's an athletic scholarship then parents are going to want to be in a situation where they feel their child is being taken care of and guided in that direction. I think allowing a one-time "free" change allows parents that chance to remove themselves and their child from a situation that isn't what they signed up for and isn't providing them the service(s) they believed they would receive. Similar to coaches who go in a different direction after 1-3 years because a school is not holding up their end of the bargain.  

[Muda69]

3 hours ago, olinecoach said:

One aspect that often gets missed in this overall discussion is the impact that the state legislature has on decisions like these. Constant pressure on the IHSAA to make changes to its policies (or not realizing the IHSAA already has a policy) play a large roll.

Since the IHSAA is not a government entity, but a private one, I am curious as what form this 'constant pressure' takes. 

 

[Bobref]

10 hours ago, Muda69 said:

the IHSAA is not a government entity, but a private one

That is not exactly accurate. The IHSAA has been found to be a “state actor” in a number of legal decisions. It depends on the issue as to whether the IHSAA is considered an arm of the state, or a private association.

[Komets2727]

21 hours ago, Bobref said:

That is not exactly accurate. The IHSAA has been found to be a “state actor” in a number of legal decisions. It depends on the issue as to whether the IHSAA is considered an arm of the state, or a private association.

IHSAA is whatever they see fit to suit THEIR purpose, never forget that

Edited May 12 by Komets2727

[Muda69]

On 5/10/2024 at 11:05 PM, Bobref said:

That is not exactly accurate. The IHSAA has been found to be a “state actor” in a number of legal decisions. It depends on the issue as to whether the IHSAA is considered an arm of the state, or a private association.

It is accurate enough for government work.

 

 

[npcougar15]

On 5/7/2024 at 1:14 PM, Muda69 said:

Just think of all the Carson Steele or Jack Kiser jerseys that could have been sold during their H.S. playing days.   Shouldn't they be able to reap some of the reward?

 

I remember saying this same thing 4 years ago, only it was Tim Tebow and Johnny Manzel. NIL is a beautiful thought but it's been horribly executed. I'm all for kids at any level making money if they can off of their name, image, likeness. But "pay-for-play" is what we got. I think it would turn off a lot of general fans as it will be the same schools every year winning. 14-18 year old kids making business decision is scary; I hope they have the right community around them (parents, coaches, family, friends, etc.) or it could get ugly pretty quickly.

[Plymouthfan91]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:43 AM, Muda69 said:

NIL $ can't be far behind.

 

What's wrong with NIL $ for High School athletes?  Our real good athletes right now play 2-3 sports a year and never have time for a true part-time job anyway.  So if they can earn some spending cash doing some social media work for the local taco truck, I see nothing wrong with it.  

[Impartial_Observer]

5 hours ago, Plymouthfan91 said:

What's wrong with NIL $ for High School athletes?  Our real good athletes right now play 2-3 sports a year and never have time for a true part-time job anyway.  So if they can earn some spending cash doing some social media work for the local taco truck, I see nothing wrong with it.  

Is making money really the point of education based sports?

[JQWL]

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Is making money really the point of education based sports?

Isn't making money the point of education? You become educated to get a job that hopefully pays well.

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Is making money really the point of education based sports?

I think the NCAA knows the answer to that question.  As does the Big 10, SEC, etc.