6A Tournament Discussion

[Bash Riprock]

3 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I think you misunderstood his statement. I took it as him stating Cathedral can play with these teams, but what really offsets is the depth. Not that they can't but if they sustain some injuries at offensive line where depth lacks it can make a difference. It has happened at the 5A level too when the Irish played in 5A. They did not win State every year they were in 5A. In 2017 they lost some good lineman to injury and had nothing for a very good Columbus East squad. They will manage through.

 

I didn't understand him at all.  I disagreed with him.  I can read John Harrell's website and know how many championships CHS have won.   Bottom line, they have beat 2 major 6A programs this year, and was 3 points away from beating the state champion last year in the playoffs.  Cathedral is typically always in the top 5 or 10 in 6A and always a contender.  Other 6A schools face depth issues as well.  Regardless of 6A or 5A, Cathedral has always punched above their weight class....and won tons of hardware.  Hard to find another school that has placed many more into D1 football programs and certainly the pro's.  

There is not a team that looks forward to playing Cathedral in the 6A playoffs...not one.  They are always one of the best.

[FastpacedO]

12 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I didn't understand him at all.  I disagreed with him.  I can read John Harrell's website and know how many championships CHS have won.   Bottom line, they have beat 2 major 6A programs this year, and was 3 points away from beating the state champion last year in the playoffs.  Cathedral is typically always in the top 5 or 10 in 6A and always a contender.  Other 6A schools face depth issues as well.  Regardless of 6A or 5A, Cathedral has always punched above their weight class....and won tons of hardware.  Hard to find another school that has placed many more into D1 football programs and certainly the pro's.  

There is not a team that looks forward to playing Cathedral in the 6A playoffs...not one.  They are always one of the best.

All good, I was just stating I didn't take it as he was stating Cathedral didn't belong in 6A. He was mentioning depth is the great equalizer. I don't think anyone is arguing with you that the Irish shouldn't be in 6A. Too many automatically get defensive and think that. I am not one of those. I am 100% believer they belong in 6A and should play there. Now if their enrollment were to drop to Chatard's level I would say maybe not, but I don't see their enrollment doing anything but stay at it's current number for the future.

 

 

[temptation]

43 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I didn't understand him at all.  I disagreed with him.  I can read John Harrell's website and know how many championships CHS have won.   Bottom line, they have beat 2 major 6A programs this year, and was 3 points away from beating the state champion last year in the playoffs.  Cathedral is typically always in the top 5 or 10 in 6A and always a contender.  Other 6A schools face depth issues as well.  Regardless of 6A or 5A, Cathedral has always punched above their weight class....and won tons of hardware.  Hard to find another school that has placed many more into D1 football programs and certainly the pro's.  

There is not a team that looks forward to playing Cathedral in the 6A playoffs...not one.  They are always one of the best.

Basically the same enrollment as Attucks as of the IHSAA’s latest enrollment figures…

How would they do in 6A?

Edited October 21, 2024 by temptation

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Basically the same enrollment as Attucks as of the IHSAA’s latest enrollment figures…

How would they do in 6A?

The same as Northrop who is already in 6A because of enrollment numbers and wouldn’t crack the top 10 in 1A

[temptation]

15 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

The same as Northrop who is already in 6A because of enrollment numbers and wouldn’t crack the top 10 in 1A

Just wanna hear him say it.

”Culture, gotta hire the right guy.”

[PHJIrish]

Cathedral's enrollment of 1150 is not in 6A territory, but the Irish have always played wherever they're placed and wherever the bus stops.😉

[AT53]

7 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

Cathedral's enrollment of 1150 is not in 6A territory, but the Irish have always played wherever they're placed and wherever the bus stops.😉

Cathedral’s enrollment (and make up) is not at all the same as some of the other 6A programs being referenced in this thread. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

I think that Penn gets the job done against LC but then lays a turd against CP. 

Snider traveling to Elkhart is going to be a tough game for the Panthers.... I think Snider comes out with a one score win. While Carroll gets to rest up after halftime. I believe we will see the matchup everyone expected to see in last years regional. Carroll v CP. If I am not mistaken would be at Carroll.

Carmel v Zionsville...idk coin flip. It stinks that Westfield is playing Harrison in game 1...but I think Westfield wins the sectional. 

HSE and Fishers should be playing one another for the sectional title, setting up a great game against Westfield in the regional. I am going to take HSE in the rematch against Westfield.

I am going to take Carroll over CP if the game is played at Carroll.

I will then take HSE to represent the North in the state championship game.

In the south I think Brownsburg and LN will be playing in regionals

While Warren will be waiting for the winner of sectional 8, which could have a new representative for the first time in a while...However, I am taking Center Grove until I am proven wrong. 

I am buying the hype with LN (that four week stretch to end the season is impressive to me). I think LN will play Warren again in Semi-State....

LN will play HSE for state, with LN coming out undefeated state champs. Which would be a historic run, since the Wildcats have not made it through Regionals...ever...(at least based on the data I can see on Harrell)

[Bash Riprock]

14 hours ago, temptation said:

Basically the same enrollment as Attucks as of the IHSAA’s latest enrollment figures…

How would they do in 6A?

I don’t know… you tell me.  How many former Attucks players have advanced to the D1 and professional ranks during the last 40 years??  
 

Ask hypothetical questions all you want. History is pretty clear about Cathdral’s performance in 6A. 

[PHJIrish]

3 hours ago, AT53 said:

Cathedral’s enrollment (and make up) is not at all the same as some of the other 6A programs being referenced in this thread. 

Well, that's apparent, and that's what I was pointing out.  It's just fact that Cathedral is where they are and they deal with it.

[temptation]

2 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

I don’t know… you tell me.  How many former Attucks players have advanced to the D1 and professional ranks during the last 40 years??  
 

Ask hypothetical questions all you want. History is pretty clear about Cathdral’s performance in 6A. 

Hypotheticals are what make this conversation fun.  By the way, I’ve got Cathedral at 9-3 in the tournament in years they have played in 6A, spanning two head coaches.

What’s this tell us “hypothetically?”

[AT53]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Hypotheticals are what make this conversation fun.  By the way, I’ve got Cathedral at 9-3 in the tournament in years they have played in 6A, spanning two head coaches.

What’s this tell us “hypothetically?”

that they’re good recruiters 

[FastpacedO]

42 minutes ago, AT53 said:

that they’re good recruiters 

A little better than some of their Public counterparts, not so much other Public Counterparts.

Edited October 22, 2024 by FastpacedO

[Footballking16]

On 10/19/2024 at 2:34 PM, Bash Riprock said:

Ok…I guess….but the enrollment of 900+ to little over 2000 must work just fine given the number of state titles won by Cathedral in 5A.  Could have sworn Cathedral won against BD and CG this year. 

Cathedral can play with anyone in the state.  

On any given night, absolutely. But the grind throughout a 3-4 month season however is a completely different story, especially as injuries mount. Not an excuse, just the reality of the situation. That is precisely why teams are classified by enrollment. A fully healthy Cathedral team is very good, a hurt Cathedral team is still good and will always compete to the final whistle. 

On 10/19/2024 at 3:11 PM, temptation said:

They gave that one away last night.

Have done it a couple times this year

[Footballking16]

On 10/19/2024 at 9:44 AM, temptation said:

Based on what I saw last night (and I know LN was also in a battle with Pike at the same time) I am more confident in LN beating Cathedral in the sectional.

I don't think Cathedral has a chance without a healthy line and a stable of running backs that can extend drives and run clock. 

[Footballking16]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

Hypotheticals are what make this conversation fun.  By the way, I’ve got Cathedral at 9-3 in the tournament in years they have played in 6A, spanning two head coaches.

What’s this tell us “hypothetically?”

That they're in a sectional with his historically mid to bad programs such North Central, Lawrence Central, and Lawrence North. Outside LN this year, I wouldn't exactly call that murderer's row. In fact I wouldn't favor either of those schools to win 3A, 4A, 5A in any given year. 

[Bash Riprock]

8 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

On any given night, absolutely. But the grind throughout a 3-4 month season however is a completely different story, especially as injuries mount. Not an excuse, just the reality of the situation. That is precisely why teams are classified by enrollment. A fully healthy Cathedral team is very good, a hurt Cathedral team is still good and will always compete to the final whistle. 

Have done it a couple times this year

I think every team goes through attrition...CG at the start of the season lost 2 guys on the defense that have D1 offers.  Big time impacted their D and their chances.  My guess is that this happens to a number of teams and if they lose certain players, its tough to overcome.  But, that's how it goes.  Like Cathedral, CG is still a good team without those players...they would have been better with them.

Cathedral is still easily top 10 or even top 6 in 6A....and no one is looking forward to playing them.

[FastpacedO]

14 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Have done it a couple times this year

Agree 100% to that. The St. X game and Warren Central both were games they should have won. If I am being honest they have exceeded what I thought they would do coming into this season. 

The Brownsburg game is really the only game they were not in. Their defense is playing better than they did in that 2 day affair.

14 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

I don't think Cathedral has a chance without a healthy line and a stable of running backs that can extend drives and run clock. 

Agreed and get pressure to rattle the LN QB. Maybe force the run (which can be dangerous too if they don't bottle up Zay Moore). We will see how healthy they are in a couple of weeks.

[Boilerup]

CP vs Carroll would be at Cp

[PHJIrish]

Yes, Cathedral recruiting is doing well, it's up to 1150.  Also, the Irish are two last second plays away from a 7-1 record.  Not a bad season for a team with a lot of young players.  Also, they've had more than their share of key injuries this season.  Hopefully they'll be healthy when the sectionals begin next week.

[PHJIrish]

On 10/22/2024 at 2:20 PM, AT53 said:

that they’re good recruiters 

  That's how private schools keep their doors open.

Edited October 28, 2024 by PHJIrish

[slice60]

Cathedral football is the poster-child for implementation of the Success Factor system. Even with 4A enrollment, they are currently playing in the right class (6A) based upon the strength of Cathedral football year in & year out.

Prior to SF implementation, Cathedral won the 4A championship 5 of 7 years (06,08,10,11,12) then moved up & immediately won 5A titles in 13,14. Up in 6A for 2 seasons, they won Sectionals in 15,16 before moving down for 5 years. Initially, they got eliminated by all-time great teams in Col East (17 champion), Dec Cent (18 runner-up), New Pal (19 champion) before cruising to 5A titles in 20 (avg winning margin in tourney--34pts) & 21 (avg winning margin in tourney--30pts). Once again being up in 6A, they won a Regional in 22 & Sectional in 23 before losing to the eventual champs CG & BD.

Fun fact: In those 9 state championship seasons in 4A & 5A noted above, 50 of those 53 victories were by double digits. with the average margin of victory by 31.75 points.

[FastpacedO]

9 hours ago, slice60 said:

Cathedral football is the poster-child for implementation of the Success Factor system. Even with 4A enrollment, they are currently playing in the right class (6A) based upon the strength of Cathedral football year in & year out.

Prior to SF implementation, Cathedral won the 4A championship 5 of 7 years (06,08,10,11,12) then moved up & immediately won 5A titles in 13,14. Up in 6A for 2 seasons, they won Sectionals in 15,16 before moving down for 5 years. Initially, they got eliminated by all-time great teams in Col East (17 champion), Dec Cent (18 runner-up), New Pal (19 champion) before cruising to 5A titles in 20 (avg winning margin in tourney--34pts) & 21 (avg winning margin in tourney--30pts). Once again being up in 6A, they won a Regional in 22 & Sectional in 23 before losing to the eventual champs CG & BD.

Fun fact: In those 9 state championship seasons in 4A & 5A noted above, 50 of those 53 victories were by double digits. with the average margin of victory by 31.75 points.

I remember watching in 2002-2003 when Coach O'Hara decided to make the change from mostly ironman football to a 2 platoon system. There were some growing pains early on in 2003 (3-7) and in 04 and 05 they lost a couple of close games to some very good Roncalli teams. 

That 2017 Columbus East team was a very fun team to watch and follow! Everyone knew they were going to run the ball with their 3 headed monster and only their rival Columbus North was able to stop them. Columbus East and Westfield in 2016 would have done well against Cathedral if they were still in 5A. In 2016 Cathedral had 3 weeks of OT games before getting blasted by Ben Davis (44-41 OT loss to CG, 41-38 OT win over LN, and 20-17 OT win over LC).

2015 was some of the best Tournament games in 6A I was blessed to actually attend. I was at the Cathedral @ Avon Regional game that Avon won 37-34 in 2 OT. The following week I was at Center Grove for the Avon @ CG Semi-State game that Center Grove won 35-34 in 2OT. I got my money's worth from those 2 games.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 10/23/2024 at 7:07 PM, Boilerup said:

CP vs Carroll would be at Cp

I thought the team on the bottom of the bracket played at home....The brackets wont load for me right now, so I cant see if Carroll has multiple home games while CP is away. 

[danomyte]

22 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I thought the team on the bottom of the bracket played at home....The brackets wont load for me right now, so I cant see if Carroll has multiple home games while CP is away. 

Determining Home Team
Classes 2A, 4A, 6A
Sectional final game non-host, if applicable, or odd sectional number.

 

Carroll will be home for their sectional final, CP will be away. So, CP would get Home for regional in that scenario.