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Winter Football Begins in 2 weeks for NAIA Programs!!!


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1 hour ago, psaboy said:

I always thought it was D3 above NAIA?? I know Trine (was Tri State at the time I think) went from NAIA to D3 years ago, so thought they would take step u, not down?? Guess I'm wrong?

Athletically it is debatable and depends on the specific institutions.

Academically, D3 is well above NAIA in terms of eligibility requirements with regards to GPA and standardized test scores.  Note: I am not saying a good education is not possible at an NAIA school.  On the whole, your average D3 player has had greater academic preparation prior to college than your average NAIA one.     

I would be curious to hear @foxbat chime in on this. 

Edited by oldtimeqb
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If any of you are needing a football fix in the near future, the State's NAIA programs begin their season in a couple of weeks.  Look for St. Francis, Marian, Taylor and IWU on the Grid Iron soon. It'

It's good quality football for sure. I remember one year, St. Francis waxed Indiana State. Beat them by a wider margin than Texas Tech did the prior week. It was 2005 I believe...............42-10. 

I would bet you, that Marian and St. Francis in most years would beat UIndy and Butler and compete with ISU.  SO Yes in your thinking of their classification, you are right, but in terms of talent....

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1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

Athletically it is debatable and depends on the specific institutions.

Academically, D3 is well above NAIA in terms of eligibility requirements with regards to GPA and standardized test scores.  Note: I am not saying a good education is not possible at an NAIA school.  On the whole, your average D3 player has had greater academic preparation prior to college than your average NAIA one.     

I would be curious to hear @foxbat chime in on this. 

I'm not as familiar with the D3/NAIA ranks.  If I'm not mistaken, @Irishman has pretty good knowledge in this area.  You might also check in with @Lysander too as I think he has pretty good knowledge there ... or maybe it was @Impartial_Observer@LCCAlum has pretty good knowledge on D2 too.

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56 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I'm not as familiar with the D3/NAIA ranks.  If I'm not mistaken, @Irishman has pretty good knowledge in this area.  You might also check in with @Lysander too as I think he has pretty good knowledge there ... or maybe it was @Impartial_Observer@LCCAlum has pretty good knowledge on D2 too.

I can’t speak to the relative academic strength between NAIA vs. NCAA....not something I know much about or would dare speculate on.   

That said, I think (solely an opinion from my observations) the whole comparison between Division I (FCS), Division II, Division III and NAIA is relative to the sport (and maybe geography).  As regards college football in Indiana, my sense is that outside of DI Notre Dame, IU, Purdue and Ball State the next best teams would be NAIA Marian and St. Francis.  I realize it’s anecdotal but last time NAIA Marian played DII UIndy (2017) it was a mauling by Marian....no comparison....Men v Boys (at least from my perspective watching the game).  As to how that comparison holds up nationally, I couldn’t begin to tell you.  

But if you go to a completely different sport like lacrosse nationally, the best college programs in order would be found in DI, DIII (yes, DIII....the top 10-15 DIII lacrosse schools are competitive with most any DI school), DII followed by NAIA.  I’m not even sure there is DI (FCS) but there is club lacrosse at schools like Purdue and IU but they don’t really rate in comparison.  As an example, some years ago, defending DIII Champion Salisbury defeated preseason No. 1 ranked DI Duke in a scrimmage....DII is catching up, though (UIndy is swiftly building a nice DII program).

Pretty certain @Impartial_Observer probably has some...errr.....”observations” on all of this he might share.

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My own thoughts are that the NAIA is mainly focused as an association on football and basketball, even though there are only something like 90 football programs in the association. As far as a competition level, it is tough to gauge. I would typically say NAIA is on a level of DII. It is hard to gauge that though, because there is only one DII team in the State, UIndy. When Marian was first getting the program off the ground, they were REALLY good. I forget what year it was but they throttled UIndy. I believe that was the only season, or at least the last season they played. I put NAIA ball on that level simply because they can offer scholarships, where DIII cannot....at least specifically for athletics. The top DIII programs seem to have ways to get money for athletes though. All that said, I don’t think the NAIA would compete well with the top DIII programs in the country. Programs like Wisconsin Whitewater and Mount Union could compete well in DII. So the lines may be a bit blurred at the top on those levels. I also think UIndy has improved enough over recent years that they would compete well with a team like Marian and St. Francis. It is interesting to IWU progress in NAIA. They should have beat St. Francis last year, and it’s my understanding that IWU is a non scholarship program, or at least don’t have the numbers like St. Francis and Marian do for offering kids. Taylor seemed to be a program on the rise, but I believe they went non scholarship as well. That tends to slow the progress.

As far as academics, I am not sure one could say one segment holds the high ground. It is strictly a school by school thing. St. Francis has several tracks for becoming a teacher, and has a solid nursing program as well. I know Marian has a good school of education, but I am not familiar with other programs. 

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Marian getting D1 talent from the region, 3rd part of article

https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/football/college/south-centrals-brendan-carr-lake-centrals-sam-long-take-unique-paths-to-next-level/article_44ece04f-d53b-5f03-9123-c03d1bac5d1f.html

 

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The levels aren't completely linear. It's not like the top NAIA program is below the bottom DII program and so forth. If you were to draw a graph of the teams top to bottom in each division there would be overlap. We are a little skewed here because of the success of Marian and St. Francis. They are like LSU and Oklahoma in FBS. They don't win it every year, but they are in the top 10 and capable of winning. UIndy has had a very good team for several years and would compete with many FCS schools. But they aren't top 10 in DII and thus very competitive with Marian and St. Francis. Mount Union, Whitewater and some of the top DIII schools would definitely compete with these teams as well but in general the NAIA teams are above DIII teams and below DII. 

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On 2/9/2021 at 11:18 AM, JustRules said:

The levels aren't completely linear. It's not like the top NAIA program is below the bottom DII program and so forth. If you were to draw a graph of the teams top to bottom in each division there would be overlap. We are a little skewed here because of the success of Marian and St. Francis. They are like LSU and Oklahoma in FBS. They don't win it every year, but they are in the top 10 and capable of winning. UIndy has had a very good team for several years and would compete with many FCS schools. But they aren't top 10 in DII and thus very competitive with Marian and St. Francis. Mount Union, Whitewater and some of the top DIII schools would definitely compete with these teams as well but in general the NAIA teams are above DIII teams and below DII. 

It's kind of hard to compare the NAIA to the FBS. Mainly because there is no Alabama. No one has been that dominant. There is a three way tie among the top NAIA programs over the last decade.............St. Francis, Marian, and Morningside. Go back two decades and it's Carroll, St. Francis, and Sioux Falls........in that order. 

Correction...............I think you have to give Marian the nod for top team of the decade. 

Edited by BTF
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58 minutes ago, DE said:

Did Marian start from "scratch" and instantly become VERY good?

Marian's success came during years 4 and 5. For St. Francis it was years 2 and 3. 

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1 hour ago, jakone said:

Yes, St. Francis also.

Thank you.

53 minutes ago, BTF said:

Marian's success came during years 4 and 5. For St. Francis it was years 2 and 3. 

Thank you.

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HCAC the Division 3 conference has delayed start for a week to March 6.  From my understanding due to...wait for it...the inability to practice outside due to inclement weather.  That just struck me as funny 😄

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11 hours ago, starbacker said:

HCAC the Division 3 conference has delayed start for a week to March 6.  From my understanding due to...wait for it...the inability to practice outside due to inclement weather.  That just struck me as funny 😄

 

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14 hours ago, starbacker said:

HCAC the Division 3 conference has delayed start for a week to March 6.  From my understanding due to...wait for it...the inability to practice outside due to inclement weather.  That just struck me as funny 😄

You can't make this stuff up.

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31 minutes ago, DE said:

You can't make this stuff up.

Illinois HS boy's basketball will finish up March 13th with no state tournament.  Football games begin March 19th. Six game season with no playoffs.

I haven't heard many kudos for how great their plan has been in awhile. 

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2 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Illinois HS boy's basketball will finish up March 13th with no state tournament.  Football games begin March 19th. Six game season with no playoffs.

I haven't heard many kudos for how great their plan has been in awhile. 

If you are looking for a "kudos" from me, you will not get one.  

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38 minutes ago, BTF said:

Wind chills in Fort Wayne on Saturday are suppose to be -20 to -40. How's it looking in Indy for Marian's home opener?

Image result for tom brady lets go gif +1

LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would presume cold too.  Doubt ANYONE that has had their season delayed, will care.

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23 minutes ago, DE said:

Image result for tom brady lets go gif +1

LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would presume cold too.  Doubt ANYONE that has had their season delayed, will care.

Agree. I'm ready for some NAIA!

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14 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Hopefully spring football will be a permanent fixture for the NAIA. 

You are alone on that my friend........ February football in Indiana is gonna be brutal.  I know Ft. Wayne right now is covered in snow and its brutally cold all over.  Not exactly condusive to prime practice situations.   As a fan, I am prepared for the elements, but i'm guessing attendance will be lower and I'll miss the atmosphere of a beautiful fall day.

 

 I know for a fact St. Francis has practiced outside in the elements quite a bit.  I think through this brutal cold stretch they are practicing in a dome somewhere in Ft. Wayne. 

Edited by Coach P
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If only someone on this thread had mentioned previously how silly it seemed that they had games scheduled to start the last week of February... glad to see the HCAC made the change. At this point, I don't see why they don't just push everything back another week and start games March 13th and have the final games on April 24th, but maybe they want to keep that extra week as a possibility for potential COVID postponements. Either way - happy for the kids to get the chance to play a season!

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3 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

Illinois HS boy's basketball will finish up March 13th with no state tournament.  Football games begin March 19th. Six game season with no playoffs.

I haven't heard many kudos for how great their plan has been in awhile. 

"Stupid is, as stupid does."

Forrest Gump

1 minute ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

If only someone on this thread had mentioned previously how silly it seemed that they had games scheduled to start the last week of February... glad to see the HCAC made the change. At this point, I don't see why they don't just push everything back another week and start games March 13th and have the final games on April 24th, but maybe they want to keep that extra week as a possibility for potential COVID postponements. Either way - happy for the kids to get the chance to play a season!

Or, now hear me out.........

They played them when they were supposed to be played in the fall of 2020.

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