US31 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Using WCGrad92's numbers above, here is the disparity in schools size in the current split (6A & 5A 32 teams): 6A Carmel 5200 Jeffersonville 2141 Carmel is 2.43 times bigger (Not much you can do about this, the top 16"ish" schools are just way bigger than the rest) 5A Valpo 2140 FWNS 1460 Valpo is 1.47 times bigger 4A FWSS 1459 (anyone else find it interesting SS & NS are only 1 kid apart?) Wash 810 FWSS is 1.8 times bigger 3A Guerin 800 Benton Central 513 GC is 1.56 times bigger 2A North Mont 513 Busco 378 NM is 1.36 times bigger 1A (with 64ish teams) East Hancock 377 Attica 160 EH is 2.36 times bigger (much larger disparity than any class but 6A...and I would agrue that effect is aggravated due to the smaller school size) OR 1A (with 32) Cov 281 Attica 177 Cov is 1.77 times bigger (very similar to what we get in the middle of the curve) BTW a 64 class 5A (as WCGRad92 has above) Valpo 2140 NW 1068 Valpo is ~2 times bigger 4 Quote
US31 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Can't edit...the 5A (with 64ish) is Valpo thru NEW HAVEN.... "NW" is my fat thumb typo. Should have been NH Quote
RegionFBFan Posted February 20 Posted February 20 If I’m reading correctly, with 32 in 6A and 1A, the ratio large to small within a class is pretty similar with the exception of 6A. As you state, there is not much you can do with 6A with Carmel being so large. So why not do it? Makes too much sense. Quote
First_Backer_Inside Posted February 20 Posted February 20 38 minutes ago, RegionFBFan said: If I’m reading correctly, with 32 in 6A and 1A, the ratio large to small within a class is pretty similar with the exception of 6A. As you state, there is not much you can do with 6A with Carmel being so large. So why not do it? Makes too much sense. Exactly, it makes too much sense. The IHSAA would never fall for a trick like that! Quote
RegionFBFan Posted February 20 Posted February 20 IHSAA make these changes now: 1. Adjust brackets to 32 in 6A and 1A, then split 5A - 2A with 61-64 schools in each. 2. Seed the Sectionals. Either complete seed or I’d be happy with seed top 2 and blind draw on the others as someone suggested earlier. 3. Neutral Site Semi State games 4. Keep LOS as home for all Championship games. Thats all. Too much to ask? 7 Quote
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 20 Posted February 20 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RegionFBFan said: IHSAA make these changes now: 1. Adjust brackets to 32 in 6A and 1A, then split 5A - 2A with 61-64 schools in each. 2. Seed the Sectionals. Either complete seed or I’d be happy with seed top 2 and blind draw on the others as someone suggested earlier. 3. Neutral Site Semi State games 4. Keep LOS as home for all Championship games. Thats all. Too much to ask? Is #4 in question? #3 is a GREAT idea. I love it. Edited February 20 by btownqbcoach1 Quote
RegionFBFan Posted February 20 Posted February 20 #4 not a question more a statement. Someone on here suggested ND hosting some of the Championship games. LOS is great don’t change it. Quote
Football Guru 25 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 When will these be finalized and Classes be set?? Quote
TigerFan20 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Football Guru 25 said: When will these be finalized and Classes be set?? IHSAA said over the next couple of weeks Edited February 21 by TigerFan20 Quote
JQWL Posted February 21 Posted February 21 23 minutes ago, TigerFan20 said: IHSAA said over the next couple of weeks So end of April probably. 1 1 Quote
Football Guru 25 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 4 hours ago, TigerFan20 said: IHSAA said over the next couple of weeks Ahhh I know they need their time to take care of certain teams and put them in the right class and sectional... the mystery mistake of numbers clause.....LBVS!! Quote
Formerly Number 39 Posted February 27 Posted February 27 If the IHSAA created an "Open Class" that was intended to be comprised of the best 32 teams in the state, regardless of enrollment numbers, and inclusion was voluntary, would they be able to fill it? Quote
WCGrad92 Posted February 27 Author Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Formerly Number 39 said: If the IHSAA created an "Open Class" that was intended to be comprised of the best 32 teams in the state, regardless of enrollment numbers, and inclusion was voluntary, would they be able to fill it? I would say NO Quote
BTF Posted February 28 Posted February 28 2 hours ago, Formerly Number 39 said: If the IHSAA created an "Open Class" that was intended to be comprised of the best 32 teams in the state, regardless of enrollment numbers, and inclusion was voluntary, would they be able to fill it? Absolutely not. Four teams have absolutely owned 6A. Doesn't leave a whole lot of hope for the other 28 teams. If a program like Cathedral won't bump up voluntarily, none of them will. Quote
Football Guru 25 Posted March 7 Posted March 7 Any updates here and when will this be finalized and sectionals posted? Seems like there is going to be alot of movement for both classes and sectionals..... Thanks! 1 Quote
WCGrad92 Posted March 7 Author Posted March 7 i believe its usually around end of March, 1st couple of weeks in April when they are usually released Quote
HoopsCoach Posted March 7 Posted March 7 5 hours ago, WCGrad92 said: i believe its usually around end of March, 1st couple of weeks in April when they are usually released In the past, the classifications and sectional alignments have been released after the conclusion of the winter sports season. That way success factor moves for all but the spring sports can be included. Quote
CoachMack219 Posted March 8 Posted March 8 On 2/20/2024 at 1:34 PM, RegionFBFan said: IHSAA make these changes now: 1. Adjust brackets to 32 in 6A and 1A, then split 5A - 2A with 61-64 schools in each. 2. Seed the Sectionals. Either complete seed or I’d be happy with seed top 2 and blind draw on the others as someone suggested earlier. 3. Neutral Site Semi State games 4. Keep LOS as home for all Championship games. Thats all. Too much to ask? I like all of this and think it's a simple solution given the current format. I came up with a much crazier/ complicated idea that combines a lot of different concepts/ formats (IHSAA postseason, IHSA playoffs, Arizona's Open Division, and Chicago Prep Bowl "relegation") into one. I think it's pretty sweet. Some of you may like it. Some may hate it, but that's the way of the world, right? Lol I'll include it in the subsequent post and will be willing to answer any questions you fine folks may have. Quote
CoachMack219 Posted March 8 Posted March 8 CoachMack's Crazy Idea includes 8 Classes and an Open/ Elite Division. The breakdown is below and includes how the playoff schedule would work. Open/Elite Division: Best 16 Teams in the State. Almost all will come from 6A-8A (FW Dwenger and Indianapolis Roncalli are only below 5A Top 16 "threats," based on my "model," and their own historical success). A first round loss in "The Open" does not eliminate you from postseason play, you will be allowed to rejoin the postseason in the appropriate class from 6A-8A dependent upon your enrollment. Prep bowl allows this with any open slots left, despite the prep bowl not being an IHSA "Playoff." 8A: 16 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 11 teams in 8A, and 5 open spots for Open Division 1st round losers, with the 5 largest enrollments (most, if not all would come from 8A anyways). Largest School = Carmel 5200, Smallest School = Indy Arsenal Tech 2500, Enrollment % Difference = 2.08% 7A: 32 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 30 teams in 7A and 2 open spots for Open Division 1st round losers, with the 2nd and 3rd smallest enrollments. Largest School = Homestead 2408, Smallest School = Terre Haute South 1609, Enrollment % Difference = 1.5% 6A: 32 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 31 teams in 6A and 1 open spot for Open Division 1st round losers with the smallest enrollment. Largest School = Franklin Community 1590, Smallest School = Columbia City 1162, Enrollment % Difference = 1.37% 5A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Indianapolis Shortridge 1159, Smallest School = Culver Academies 832, Enrollment % Difference = 1.39% 4A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Brebeuf Jesuit 829, Smallest School = Evansville Mater Dei 520 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.59% 3A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.38% 2A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.41% 1A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Cloverdale 283, Smallest School = Attica 160, Enrollment % Difference = 1.77% Playoff Schedules Open/ Elite Division: IHSAA Playoffs Week 1, BYE for Week 1 winners, Sectional Champ Weekend, Regional Weekend, and Semi-State Weekend (Saturday Showcase) 8A: IHSAA Playoffs Week 2, Sectional Champ Weekend, Regional Weekend, and State Weekend. Semi-States on Saturday during Regional Weekend at Purdue, ND, or IU. 7A-5A, 2A, 1A: Current IHSAA 32-team playoff schedule 3A-4A: IHSAA Playoffs Week 1 - State Championship 1A-7A Semi-States on Friday so the Open Final is a HUGE Event. CoachMack's Favorite Aspects 1. More Football (for our BEST 16, and in general) 2. More State Champions (3 more per season) 3. More consistent enrollment % differential across all classes (1.56% average in my model vs 1.83% in our current format), but specifically the improved differential for our smallest 128 schools. 1 Quote
BLACKGOLD2007 Posted March 8 Posted March 8 Penn 6th largest school in the state....meh at football. Changes are coming! fingers crossed. Quote
oldtimeqb Posted March 8 Posted March 8 1 hour ago, CoachMack219 said: CoachMack's Crazy Idea includes 8 Classes and an Open/ Elite Division. The breakdown is below and includes how the playoff schedule would work. Love the enthusiasm, but my eyes went cross-eyed trying to figure this out. 2 Quote
CoachMack219 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 On 3/8/2024 at 1:06 PM, oldtimeqb said: Love the enthusiasm, but my eyes went cross-eyed trying to figure this out. I'll admit, it's not easy to figure out and wasn't easy to attempt to figure out/ type out. Lol but I think I saw somehow/ somewhere throughout this thread that we have 312 football playing schools? In all honesty, I wanted a much simpler solution than the one I provided but all of the other options I attempted resulted in a lot of the same problems we have currently (or a numbers issue due to fitting everyone into the playoffs). Whereas the class breakdowns of my insanely confusing idea (probably its new title lol) are more equitable for almost the entire state, short of the bottom half of 8A (impossible to fix enrollment differential if Carmel is the top of the class). That is why I added this extra confusing Open Division to try and eliminate some of the "heavy hitters" from 8A each year to make it more "equitable" for those other 8A teams that have never had a chance and probably still don't/ won't until the necessary changes are made in either their schools, communities, households, or all of those to compete under the current format or any like it. 1 Quote
Titan32 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 On 3/8/2024 at 11:18 AM, CoachMack219 said: CoachMack's Crazy Idea includes 8 Classes and an Open/ Elite Division. The breakdown is below and includes how the playoff schedule would work. Open/Elite Division: Best 16 Teams in the State. Almost all will come from 6A-8A (FW Dwenger and Indianapolis Roncalli are only below 5A Top 16 "threats," based on my "model," and their own historical success). A first round loss in "The Open" does not eliminate you from postseason play, you will be allowed to rejoin the postseason in the appropriate class from 6A-8A dependent upon your enrollment. Prep bowl allows this with any open slots left, despite the prep bowl not being an IHSA "Playoff." 8A: 16 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 11 teams in 8A, and 5 open spots for Open Division 1st round losers, with the 5 largest enrollments (most, if not all would come from 8A anyways). Largest School = Carmel 5200, Smallest School = Indy Arsenal Tech 2500, Enrollment % Difference = 2.08% 7A: 32 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 30 teams in 7A and 2 open spots for Open Division 1st round losers, with the 2nd and 3rd smallest enrollments. Largest School = Homestead 2408, Smallest School = Terre Haute South 1609, Enrollment % Difference = 1.5% 6A: 32 Teams. Based on this year, there would have been 31 teams in 6A and 1 open spot for Open Division 1st round losers with the smallest enrollment. Largest School = Franklin Community 1590, Smallest School = Columbia City 1162, Enrollment % Difference = 1.37% 5A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Indianapolis Shortridge 1159, Smallest School = Culver Academies 832, Enrollment % Difference = 1.39% 4A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Brebeuf Jesuit 829, Smallest School = Evansville Mater Dei 520 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.59% 3A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.38% 2A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.41% 1A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Cloverdale 283, Smallest School = Attica 160, Enrollment % Difference = 1.77% Playoff Schedules Open/ Elite Division: IHSAA Playoffs Week 1, BYE for Week 1 winners, Sectional Champ Weekend, Regional Weekend, and Semi-State Weekend (Saturday Showcase) 8A: IHSAA Playoffs Week 2, Sectional Champ Weekend, Regional Weekend, and State Weekend. Semi-States on Saturday during Regional Weekend at Purdue, ND, or IU. 7A-5A, 2A, 1A: Current IHSAA 32-team playoff schedule 3A-4A: IHSAA Playoffs Week 1 - State Championship 1A-7A Semi-States on Friday so the Open Final is a HUGE Event. CoachMack's Favorite Aspects 1. More Football (for our BEST 16, and in general) 2. More State Champions (3 more per season) 3. More consistent enrollment % differential across all classes (1.56% average in my model vs 1.83% in our current format), but specifically the improved differential for our smallest 128 schools. Am I missing something, why are these two the same? 3A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.38% 2A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.41% Quote
RegionFBFan Posted March 11 Posted March 11 I just don’t think Indiana has enough High Schools participating in football to support 8 classes. Too much dilution. i believe Ohio and Illinois have 8 classes. How many schools play football? I think Ohio has double the schools not sure about Illinois. Quote
CoachMack219 Posted March 11 Posted March 11 11 minutes ago, Titan32 said: Am I missing something, why are these two the same? 3A: 64 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.38% 2A: 32 Teams. Largest School = Eastern Hancock 377, Smallest School = Indianapolis Lutheran 267 (success factored up), Enrollment % Difference = 1.41% My eyes went crossed eyed typing it, similar to @oldtimeqb while reading. Lol I'll correct it here now... 3A would be... 64 Teams. Largest School = Knox 520, Smallest School = Churubusco 378, Enrollment % Difference = 1.38% 1 Quote
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