Coaches Confidential: Is tournament success factor working? What about private schools?

[Donnie Baker]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:39 AM, MarshallCounty said:

Football takes a lot of effort and guts, not many kids have that dedication and drive pursue it. 

I think you’ve watched Junction Boys too many times. I swear God you have 

[FastpacedO]

17 hours ago, temptation said:

So IPS and rural schools just need to spend more time and try harder?

Understand what you are pointing to but it begs the question. Where was the change?

By that I mean historically Arsenal Tech (long long time ago) was very strong. Same could be said for some old Howe teams, and Washington back in the day. Arlington 1999 didn't have a huge influx of rostered players and that team took Ben Davis to the brink. There are many factors and discipline can be one. I know Coach Harpold was head coach at both Howe and Arlington during their success. Washington during their success had coach Springer and his T-formation.

 

The biggest change to me is speed and skills training (outside of the actual football team). Something more students at P/P and even better off Public schools parents can afford, but not so much for IPS. 

[Coach Nowlin]

https://dcgary.org/news/noll-breaks-ground-first-phase-athletic-field-rebuild

Bishop Noll new Football field is OUTSTANDING:   Andrean CANNOT be happy about this: 

 

on topic of participation:   That was spoken about with Rochester:   Rensselaer same thing:  We have about 445 kids now, not 540 like 10 years ago:   St. Joe closed ish........incoming Freshman class of like 88 kids of which I was told 41 boys......We have a roster of 32 this year.    

 

Wish Common sense would prevail on certain circumstance:   Enrollment:   Benton Central and WEBO tied with enrollment:   but you know what the by law says to break a tie??   Incoming Freshman Class number....... So BC who has been struggling with their program numbers and successes last 15 years in the Hoosier Conference, had more incoming Freshman, WEBO who has won 3 state titles in last 7 years ( could be less, too lazy to look). they had less incoming Freshman,  BC gets 3a, WEBO gets 2a.........

 

[Titan32]

14 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

https://dcgary.org/news/noll-breaks-ground-first-phase-athletic-field-rebuild

Bishop Noll new Football field is OUTSTANDING:   Andrean CANNOT be happy about this: 

 

on topic of participation:   That was spoken about with Rochester:   Rensselaer same thing:  We have about 445 kids now, not 540 like 10 years ago:   St. Joe closed ish........incoming Freshman class of like 88 kids of which I was told 41 boys......We have a roster of 32 this year.    

 

Wish Common sense would prevail on certain circumstance:   Enrollment:   Benton Central and WEBO tied with enrollment:   but you know what the by law says to break a tie??   Incoming Freshman Class number....... So BC who has been struggling with their program numbers and successes last 15 years in the Hoosier Conference, had more incoming Freshman, WEBO who has won 3 state titles in last 7 years ( could be less, too lazy to look). they had less incoming Freshman,  BC gets 3a, WEBO gets 2a.........

 

WOW!  This is bad.

[scarab527]

25 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

https://dcgary.org/news/noll-breaks-ground-first-phase-athletic-field-rebuild

Bishop Noll new Football field is OUTSTANDING:   Andrean CANNOT be happy about this: 

😂😂😂
 

Coach, I can assure you, no one at Andrean cares. 

[Boiler Boog]

Quote

The biggest change to me is speed and skills training (outside of the actual football team). Something more students at P/P and even better off Public schools parents can afford, but not so much for IPS.

I can only give my anecdotal evidence, but I think this has a lot of validity. I coached for several years in CYO. During my last year a couple of seasons ago, I had 2 7th grade QB's. One had been going full time to a QB coach for a few years at that point. The other had 2 full time QB coaches and then transferred to IMG for 8th grade and is now back in Indy. This situation is probably at the extreme end, but it sounded like a lot of the other CYO kids, whether they be QBs or any other position, are doing strength and conditioning or football specific training at a higher rate than public school players. Again, this is just my anecdotal experience, but it seems like the private school kids are probably doing the outside training at a higher %. If I had to guess why, it was probably due to the cost. You go to a lot of the CYO games on the weekend and you see lots of Escalades and Yukons, it's almost the default vehicle. 2 of my players parents had Bentley's. The training is expensive, and my guess is the private school players tend to have more financial access to it particularly on the Northside CYO schools.

Edited August 15, 2024 by Boiler Boog

[LCCAlum]

1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

https://dcgary.org/news/noll-breaks-ground-first-phase-athletic-field-rebuild

Bishop Noll new Football field is OUTSTANDING:   Andrean CANNOT be happy about this: 

 

on topic of participation:   That was spoken about with Rochester:   Rensselaer same thing:  We have about 445 kids now, not 540 like 10 years ago:   St. Joe closed ish........incoming Freshman class of like 88 kids of which I was told 41 boys......We have a roster of 32 this year.    

 

This is a shocker given the way your Junior High drubbed me a couple years in a row.

[US31]

4 hours ago, Boiler Boog said:

I can only give my anecdotal evidence, but I think this has a lot of validity. I coached for several years in CYO. During my last year a couple of seasons ago, I had 2 7th grade QB's. One had been going full time to a QB coach for a few years at that point. The other had 2 full time QB coaches and then transferred to IMG for 8th grade and is now back in Indy. This situation is probably at the extreme end, but it sounded like a lot of the other CYO kids, whether they be QBs or any other position, are doing strength and conditioning or football specific training at a higher rate than public school players. Again, this is just my anecdotal experience, but it seems like the private school kids are probably doing the outside training at a higher %. If I had to guess why, it was probably due to the cost. You go to a lot of the CYO games on the weekend and you see lots of Escalades and Yukons, it's almost the default vehicle. 2 of my players parents had Bentley's. The training is expensive, and my guess is the private school players tend to have more financial access to it particularly on the Northside CYO schools.

This isn't a CYO thing....its a "parents with means" thing.  Which P/P's and many large suburban publics have in abundance.  Which is why a clearinghouse method of counting enrollment would be the best means of "counting" kids and it would not target any particular "type" of school.  It would be uniform across all IHSAA member schools.

[tango]

2 minutes ago, US31 said:

This isn't a CYO thing....its a "parents with means" thing.  Which P/P's and many large suburban publics have in abundance.  Which is why a clearinghouse method of counting enrollment would be the best means of "counting" kids and it would not target any particular "type" of school.  It would be uniform across all IHSAA member schools.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of $70,000 pick-ups at some of the so-called "under-privileged" rural public schools...  

[US31]

4 minutes ago, tango said:

Yeah, I've seen a lot of $70,000 pick-ups at some of the so-called "under-privileged" rural public schools...  

Who says everyone at a rural school is underpriveleged? I know a lot of "rural" families that make quite a bit of money...

(not trying to be snarky...I think we are saying the same thing?)

Edited August 15, 2024 by US31

[Muda69]

Just now, US31 said:

Who says everyone at a rural school is underpriveleged? I know a lot of "rural" families that make quite a bit of money...

Most farmers these days aren't poor, with government subsidies, insurance,  and price controls courtesy of an antiquated Farm Bill that just gets rubber stamped by congress every time.  

[BDGiant93]

22 hours ago, temptation said:

Yes, poor BD.

Poor kid. He lost half his senior year on varsity over that foolishness. 

[Footballking16]

21 minutes ago, US31 said:

Who says everyone at a rural school is underpriveleged? I know a lot of "rural" families that make quite a bit of money...

(not trying to be snarky...I think we are saying the same thing?)

Who says everyone at a P/P is affluent? 

Edited August 15, 2024 by Footballking16

[Coach Nowlin]

On 8/15/2024 at 10:47 AM, LCCAlum said:

This is a shocker given the way your Junior High drubbed me a couple years in a row.

We return 1700 yard rusher from that class who is a SR this year.    Wonderful 2 way player at Center/LB/DE.   He played in that group as well.     Only 2 left from that team.  Back to back years of 5 man senior group.   They have been awesome and looking forward to their year coming up.    @LCCAlum

On 8/15/2024 at 2:28 PM, tango said:

Yeah, I've seen a lot of $70,000 pick-ups at some of the so-called "under-privileged" rural public schools...  

who doesn't love a good ole Texas Lexas    amirite. 

[IndianaWrestlingGuy1]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:14 PM, temptation said:

So IPS and rural schools just need to spend more time and try harder?

Yes, poor BD.

Sure. One example for you: I live in Syracuse, Indiana, and a football monster could be built at Wawasee High School in no time. I'd spend my summers in the football leagues in Warsaw, Goshen, Northwood, Columbia City, and I might even snipe an all-star from Wakarusa. I'd work the parents about building a powerhouse. I'd find a few local sponsors (maybe the largest duck manufacturer in the country in Maple Leaf Farms or the largest boat manufacturer in the state in SmokerCraft) to fund the new football extravaganza. I'd probably throw a few fundraisers at the Frog Tavern or the Oakwood Resort. And, I'd use the money to fund coaches and a youth program that was sought after across Kosciusko, Elkhart or Wabash counties. 
 

Since all those school districts are less than 30 minutes away in different directions, I'd work on transportation to make sure all the kids could get to school/practice in a timely fashion. Then I'd rustle up a past Wawasee High School or Goshen HS legend to be on my staff. And I'd use the money from the Wawasee Football Frog Tavern Silent Auction to hire some top tier coaches. Hell, I probably wouldn't even have to worry about paying coaches more since I had so much tax money. 
 

After a couple season of above average success and a sectional win or (God willing) a Regional win, I'd broadcast the Best Football Program in the 574 area code out to the neighboring 4 counties. Then, I'd have move-ins from as far away as Elkhart, Ft. Wayne, or Wabash that would come for the party. Hell, they could even live on beautiful Lake Wawasee, Lake Syracuse, Lake Tippecanoe, or one of the Barbee finger lakes. You could contend in 5A in under 3 years. 
 

So yeah, spend more time and try harder...

 

PS. The untapped gnarly talent is hiding in that Amish community. I'd find Grand Master Graeber in Napanee and I could probably open up the flood gates of hard nosed kids that haven't ever been on a football field that would contribute immediately. 

[kdets89]

6 hours ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy1 said:

PS. The untapped gnarly talent is hiding in that Amish community. I'd find Grand Master Graeber in Napanee and I could probably open up the flood gates of hard nosed kids that haven't ever been on a football field that would contribute immediately. 

I loved his song, "Fight the Power", back in the day.  Or was that Public Enemy?  I forget.

[Muda69]

6 hours ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy1 said:

PS. The untapped gnarly talent is hiding in that Amish community. I'd find Grand Master Graeber in Napanee and I could probably open up the flood gates of hard nosed kids that haven't ever been on a football field that would contribute immediately. 

That raw talent is there. As a youth I baled hay a few times for a couple of Amish farms in my area.  Those Amish kids, although most weren't over 5'9", could chuck wet, 75 pound hay bales like they were nothing. 

[US31]

17 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Who says everyone at a P/P is affluent? 

I'm not...simply trying to point out that the ability to spend $$$ on private coaches, etc is not something unique to Public, P/P, etc.  It simply a by product of families with means.  P/P's and large suburban public schools tend to have a higher number of these families.  

Is that earth shattering news to anyone?

[US31]

8 hours ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy1 said:

Sure. One example for you: I live in Syracuse, Indiana, and a football monster could be built at Wawasee High School in no time. I'd spend my summers in the football leagues in Warsaw, Goshen, Northwood, Columbia City, and I might even snipe an all-star from Wakarusa. I'd work the parents about building a powerhouse. I'd find a few local sponsors (maybe the largest duck manufacturer in the country in Maple Leaf Farms or the largest boat manufacturer in the state in SmokerCraft) to fund the new football extravaganza. I'd probably throw a few fundraisers at the Frog Tavern or the Oakwood Resort. And, I'd use the money to fund coaches and a youth program that was sought after across Kosciusko, Elkhart or Wabash counties. 
 

Since all those school districts are less than 30 minutes away in different directions, I'd work on transportation to make sure all the kids could get to school/practice in a timely fashion. Then I'd rustle up a past Wawasee High School or Goshen HS legend to be on my staff. And I'd use the money from the Wawasee Football Frog Tavern Silent Auction to hire some top tier coaches. Hell, I probably wouldn't even have to worry about paying coaches more since I had so much tax money. 
 

After a couple season of above average success and a sectional win or (God willing) a Regional win, I'd broadcast the Best Football Program in the 574 area code out to the neighboring 4 counties. Then, I'd have move-ins from as far away as Elkhart, Ft. Wayne, or Wabash that would come for the party. Hell, they could even live on beautiful Lake Wawasee, Lake Syracuse, Lake Tippecanoe, or one of the Barbee finger lakes. You could contend in 5A in under 3 years. 
 

So yeah, spend more time and try harder...

 

PS. The untapped gnarly talent is hiding in that Amish community. I'd find Grand Master Graeber in Napanee and I could probably open up the flood gates of hard nosed kids that haven't ever been on a football field that would contribute immediately. 

This is sarcasm/parody correct???

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, US31 said:

I'm not...simply trying to point out that the ability to spend $$$ on private coaches, etc is not something unique to Public, P/P, etc.  It simply a by product of families with means.  P/P's and large suburban public schools tend to have a higher number of these families.  

Is that earth shattering news to anyone?

It isn't Earth shattering news.

Do you then propose the IHSAA implement a multiplier to public schools that have a higher socio-economic demographic? 

[US31]

Just now, Footballking16 said:

It isn't Earth shattering news.

Do you then propose the IHSAA implement a multiplier to public schools that have a higher socio-economic demographic? 

Actually the opposite....I've voiced my opinion in multiple posts over the years that we should use a clearinghouse method of counting enrollement and apply it to all member schools regardless of being Public, P/P, etc (even in this thread).  

If you are looking for a windmill to chase....I'm not it, baby.

[Footballking16]

10 minutes ago, US31 said:

Actually the opposite....I've voiced my opinion in multiple posts over the years that we should use a clearinghouse method of counting enrollement and apply it to all member schools regardless of being Public, P/P, etc (even in this thread).  

If you are looking for a windmill to chase....I'm not it, baby.

Oh? Must have confused you with somebody else?

23 hours ago, US31 said:

Probably have a lot of other P/P schools open to a multiplier and going into the public tournament after that....

 

[US31]

14 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Oh? Must have confused you with somebody else?

 

I'll slow down for you.....that post was a joke referring to a comment about adding all p/p to one tournament (a plan of which I am not a supporter).  That p/p only tournament would likely be soley owned and won by Cathedral (after which, I would predict, some p/p's might not have a problem with the ol'multiplier if they could get back into the "big" tournament and not have to be in a p/p only tourney). 

I very specifically stated I prefer a clearinghouse enrollment count that would be applied to all member school regardless of type (public, P/P, etc).  I have had this opinion for several years now and have posted about it often.

I'll make sure I use purple in the future..

Edited August 16, 2024 by US31

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, US31 said:

I'll slow down for you.....that post was a joke referring to a comment about adding all p/p to one tournament (a plan of which I am not a supporter).  That p/p only tournament would likely be soley owned and won by Cathedral (after which, I would predict, some p/p's might not have a problem with the ol'multiplier if they could get back into the "big" tournament and not have to be in a p/p only tourney). 

I very specifically stated I prefer a clearinghouse enrollment count that would be applied to all member school regardless of type (public, P/P, etc).  I have had this opinion for several years now and have posted about it often.

I'll make sure I use purple in the future..

Noted, thanks.

[BDGiant93]

I don't know how something like this would be done, but I've actually mentioned that I'd like to see a de-multiplier. So, if a team is really struggling in a class it can be moved down to a class where it's more competitive. Again, I don't know how you'd do something like that and make it fair, but it was one of those silly ideas I had one afternoon.