Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

It’s time to bring back the Cluster System- but this time, one big change...


Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, tango said:

I get it.  I just don't think it makes those games any better. 

How is a virtual play-in game not better than a game where the final outcome means absolutely nothing? Under my proposed system Lawrence North is literally playing for their playoff lives while Pike has a chance to play spoiler.

  • Disdain 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

How is a virtual play-in game not better than a game where the final outcome means absolutely nothing? Under my proposed system Lawrence North is literally playing for their playoff lives while Pike has a chance to play spoiler.

You seem to be a big fan of the word "literally."   Its very annoying.  Kind of like "at the end of the day."  Or "narrative."

 

 

 

 

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

How is a virtual play-in game not better than a game where the final outcome means absolutely nothing? Under my proposed system Lawrence North is literally playing for their playoff lives while Pike has a chance to play spoiler.

I suppose I choose to believe the players and coaches give full effort regardless of whether the outcome decides a team's playoff fate.  Would Cathedral's players and coaches have given more effort or done anything differently if beating Elder or St. X meant they qualified for the IHSAA playoffs and losing meant they didn't?  Would more fans have made the trip? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, tango said:

I suppose I choose to believe the players and coaches give full effort regardless of whether the outcome decides a team's playoff fate.  Would Cathedral's players and coaches have given more effort or done anything differently if beating Elder or St. X meant they qualified for the IHSAA playoffs and losing meant they didn't?  Would more fans have made the trip? 

I've seen firsthand the difference between playing a game where playoff implications are on the line. In 2007 on our senior night, we played Cincinnati Moeller. We were 7-1 and our sectional draw had already been released. We were playing a .500 Moeller team who was in with a win, out with a loss. We didn't game plan any differently or do anything out of normal the week leading up to the game, but our sense of urgency simply didn't match that of Moeller's. All the seniors played in a game that we eventually lost, while Moeller pulled out all the stops; trick plays, going for it for 4th down on certain parts of the field that you would never do so, etc. It's a game they could ill-afford to lose and a game for us that had zero postseason implications. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2019 at 11:55 AM, Footballking16 said:

There's where I disagree. A qualifier makes regular season games meaningful. More meaningful games equals more incentive to attend. It yields more interest. 

For an example, under my proposal that eliminates half the field after the conclusion of the regular (using Sagarin) Lawrence North at 2-6 who is in the top half of Sagarin is currently out of the playoff picture because they haven't accumulated the necessary 3 wins to earn qualification status. Lawrence North hosts Pike this Friday and it's essentially a play-in game. On the surface, a 2-6 team playing a 1-7 team isn't a huge draw especially since both teams are automatically in the playoffs with their opponents already determined. But under a qualifying system, this games now has actually interest and something to be played for.  

Yeah.  That sounds good but relying on Sagarin might not be the best option.   What if 6 of the top 8 teams in a class were in the Northern part of the state?   You think travel times are long now, thing semi-state travel in the first round of the sectionals.   I like the idea of Clusters or Districts like Texas has, but there would need to be some good logistics determined well in advance to make it work.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, 77Jimmie said:

Yeah.  That sounds good but relying on Sagarin might not be the best option.   What if 6 of the top 8 teams in a class were in the Northern part of the state?   You think travel times are long now, thing semi-state travel in the first round of the sectionals.   I like the idea of Clusters or Districts like Texas has, but there would need to be some good logistics determined well in advance to make it work.

 

I actually prefer something like CalPreps because it factors in out of state opponents (to my knowledge Sagarin does not).

When you get to the bigger classes I don't think it's as big of a deal as you think. For 5A and 6A you really would only have a sectional final and a regional final which the highest seed would host. Semi-state would be a neutral site and and finals obviously in Indy.

Looking at 6A this year, let's use CalPreps as it factors in out of state competition. If the tournament started tomorrow, these would be the 16 qualifies teams

Avon

Brownsburg

Fishers (*)

Homestead (*)

Lafayette Jeff (*)

Westfield (*)

North Central

Carmel (*)

HSE (*)

Warren

Ben Davis

Center Grove

Franklin Central

Merrillville (*)

Southport

Snider (*)

The 8 most Northern teams would make up the top half of the bracket  (*). Matchup's would be

#8 Snider @ # 1Fishers

#5 Carmel @ #4 Westfield

#6 HSE @ #3 Lafayette Jefferson

#7 Merrillville @ #2 Homestead

I don't think overall travel in that scenario is too egregious and certainly makes for a much more exciting and competitive tournament.

Edited by Footballking16
  • Disdain 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2019 at 9:10 AM, DanteEstonia said:

How is that fundamentally different from losing in the first round of the playoffs?

The real difference was that Penn and EC played week one of the season; so 9 games for the loser were completely meaningless as far as the post season went. 

The other issue I have with clusters is the tie break system. Does Texas still do a coin flip to see who gets in and who is left out of the playoffs among teams that are tied? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/15/2019 at 8:59 AM, superjay said:

Need to find a way to get the bottom 25% out of the tournament.  It will be too much effort for the IHSAA.  They couldn’t even get realignment right.

Almost all of the bottom 25% are eliminated in week 1 anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2019 at 3:53 PM, Footballking16 said:

I have another suggestion: DON'T READ THE THREAD.

This is the second time today you've voluntarily read and even chose to reply in a thread you've voiced your disdain for.

Why am I not allowed to point out the STUPIDITY of trying to bring back the Cluster system which was a total ClusterF*** 40 years ago???

The Cluster system is like Ronald Reagan...both belong to the 80s & both are long gone. Let them both Rest In Peace.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, slice60 said:

Why am I not allowed to point out the STUPIDITY of trying to bring back the Cluster system which was a total ClusterF*** 40 years ago???

The Cluster system is like Ronald Reagan...both belong to the 80s & both are long gone. Let them both Rest In Peace.

The concept of the Cluster system was, and remains, valid. The implementation was fatally flawed because the rules did not allow enough teams to qualify, leading to inequitable results. Expand the number of teams getting in, and problem solved.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The concept of the Cluster system was, and remains, valid. The implementation was fatally flawed because the rules did not allow enough teams to qualify, leading to inequitable results. Expand the number of teams getting in, and problem solved.

Ohio has more or less a "cluster system" just a bigger version. I love their format.

4 regions, 8 teams per region. Each region seeded 1-8, winner of Winner of region 1/2 plays winner of region 3/4 for the finals. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...