Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, tango said: I get it. I just don't think it makes those games any better. How is a virtual play-in game not better than a game where the final outcome means absolutely nothing? Under my proposed system Lawrence North is literally playing for their playoff lives while Pike has a chance to play spoiler. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: How is a virtual play-in game not better than a game where the final outcome means absolutely nothing? Under my proposed system Lawrence North is literally playing for their playoff lives while Pike has a chance to play spoiler. You seem to be a big fan of the word "literally." Its very annoying. Kind of like "at the end of the day." Or "narrative." Edited October 14, 2019 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, DT said: You seem to be a big fan of the word "literally." Its very annoying. Kind of like "at the end of the day." Or "narrative." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 6 hours ago, MarshallCounty said: If you would like to see a cluster system talk to your local principal and/or head coach. We already have it in the State where I teach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice60 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Somebody help me. I can't find the DELETE THIS TOPIC FOREVER button. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, slice60 said: Somebody help me. I can't find the DELETE THIS TOPIC FOREVER button. I have another suggestion: DON'T READ THE THREAD. This is the second time today you've voluntarily read and even chose to reply in a thread you've voiced your disdain for. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: How is a virtual play-in game not better than a game where the final outcome means absolutely nothing? Under my proposed system Lawrence North is literally playing for their playoff lives while Pike has a chance to play spoiler. I suppose I choose to believe the players and coaches give full effort regardless of whether the outcome decides a team's playoff fate. Would Cathedral's players and coaches have given more effort or done anything differently if beating Elder or St. X meant they qualified for the IHSAA playoffs and losing meant they didn't? Would more fans have made the trip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, tango said: I suppose I choose to believe the players and coaches give full effort regardless of whether the outcome decides a team's playoff fate. Would Cathedral's players and coaches have given more effort or done anything differently if beating Elder or St. X meant they qualified for the IHSAA playoffs and losing meant they didn't? Would more fans have made the trip? I've seen firsthand the difference between playing a game where playoff implications are on the line. In 2007 on our senior night, we played Cincinnati Moeller. We were 7-1 and our sectional draw had already been released. We were playing a .500 Moeller team who was in with a win, out with a loss. We didn't game plan any differently or do anything out of normal the week leading up to the game, but our sense of urgency simply didn't match that of Moeller's. All the seniors played in a game that we eventually lost, while Moeller pulled out all the stops; trick plays, going for it for 4th down on certain parts of the field that you would never do so, etc. It's a game they could ill-afford to lose and a game for us that had zero postseason implications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 hour ago, DT said: You seem to be a big fan of the word "literally." Its very annoying. Kind of like "at the end of the day." Or "narrative." Contraction, meet literally. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psaboy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 What is the big change??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjay Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Need to find a way to get the bottom 25% out of the tournament. It will be too much effort for the IHSAA. They couldn’t even get realignment right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallCounty Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, superjay said: Need to find a way to get the bottom 25% out of the tournament. It will be too much effort for the IHSAA. They couldn’t even get realignment right. Who is the IHSAA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 13 hours ago, psaboy said: What is the big change??? All team sports would be in the cluster system. When the Cluster System was first tried in 1983, it was only used in football. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallCounty Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said: All team sports would be in the cluster system. When the Cluster System was first tried in 1983, it was only used in football. Nahhh, travel would be atrocious. This idea is a cluster truck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 40 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said: All team sports would be in the cluster system. When the Cluster System was first tried in 1983, it was only used in football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77Jimmie Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 21 hours ago, DanteEstonia said: We already have it in the State where I teach. They have it in Texas also. But they call them "Districts." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77Jimmie Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 11:55 AM, Footballking16 said: There's where I disagree. A qualifier makes regular season games meaningful. More meaningful games equals more incentive to attend. It yields more interest. For an example, under my proposal that eliminates half the field after the conclusion of the regular (using Sagarin) Lawrence North at 2-6 who is in the top half of Sagarin is currently out of the playoff picture because they haven't accumulated the necessary 3 wins to earn qualification status. Lawrence North hosts Pike this Friday and it's essentially a play-in game. On the surface, a 2-6 team playing a 1-7 team isn't a huge draw especially since both teams are automatically in the playoffs with their opponents already determined. But under a qualifying system, this games now has actually interest and something to be played for. Yeah. That sounds good but relying on Sagarin might not be the best option. What if 6 of the top 8 teams in a class were in the Northern part of the state? You think travel times are long now, thing semi-state travel in the first round of the sectionals. I like the idea of Clusters or Districts like Texas has, but there would need to be some good logistics determined well in advance to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, 77Jimmie said: Yeah. That sounds good but relying on Sagarin might not be the best option. What if 6 of the top 8 teams in a class were in the Northern part of the state? You think travel times are long now, thing semi-state travel in the first round of the sectionals. I like the idea of Clusters or Districts like Texas has, but there would need to be some good logistics determined well in advance to make it work. I actually prefer something like CalPreps because it factors in out of state opponents (to my knowledge Sagarin does not). When you get to the bigger classes I don't think it's as big of a deal as you think. For 5A and 6A you really would only have a sectional final and a regional final which the highest seed would host. Semi-state would be a neutral site and and finals obviously in Indy. Looking at 6A this year, let's use CalPreps as it factors in out of state competition. If the tournament started tomorrow, these would be the 16 qualifies teams Avon Brownsburg Fishers (*) Homestead (*) Lafayette Jeff (*) Westfield (*) North Central Carmel (*) HSE (*) Warren Ben Davis Center Grove Franklin Central Merrillville (*) Southport Snider (*) The 8 most Northern teams would make up the top half of the bracket (*). Matchup's would be #8 Snider @ # 1Fishers #5 Carmel @ #4 Westfield #6 HSE @ #3 Lafayette Jefferson #7 Merrillville @ #2 Homestead I don't think overall travel in that scenario is too egregious and certainly makes for a much more exciting and competitive tournament. Edited October 15, 2019 by Footballking16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCHS Tiger Fan Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/13/2019 at 10:52 PM, DanteEstonia said: All team sports are now cluster based! No more ping-pong balls! The regular season now matters! Hell No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHJIrish Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Please, NO CLUSTER! We tried it and it didn't work out at all! Just let everyone participate and things weed themselves out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 9:10 AM, DanteEstonia said: How is that fundamentally different from losing in the first round of the playoffs? The real difference was that Penn and EC played week one of the season; so 9 games for the loser were completely meaningless as far as the post season went. The other issue I have with clusters is the tie break system. Does Texas still do a coin flip to see who gets in and who is left out of the playoffs among teams that are tied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice60 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 8:59 AM, superjay said: Need to find a way to get the bottom 25% out of the tournament. It will be too much effort for the IHSAA. They couldn’t even get realignment right. Almost all of the bottom 25% are eliminated in week 1 anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice60 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 3:53 PM, Footballking16 said: I have another suggestion: DON'T READ THE THREAD. This is the second time today you've voluntarily read and even chose to reply in a thread you've voiced your disdain for. Why am I not allowed to point out the STUPIDITY of trying to bring back the Cluster system which was a total ClusterF*** 40 years ago??? The Cluster system is like Ronald Reagan...both belong to the 80s & both are long gone. Let them both Rest In Peace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, slice60 said: Why am I not allowed to point out the STUPIDITY of trying to bring back the Cluster system which was a total ClusterF*** 40 years ago??? The Cluster system is like Ronald Reagan...both belong to the 80s & both are long gone. Let them both Rest In Peace. The concept of the Cluster system was, and remains, valid. The implementation was fatally flawed because the rules did not allow enough teams to qualify, leading to inequitable results. Expand the number of teams getting in, and problem solved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bobref said: The concept of the Cluster system was, and remains, valid. The implementation was fatally flawed because the rules did not allow enough teams to qualify, leading to inequitable results. Expand the number of teams getting in, and problem solved. Ohio has more or less a "cluster system" just a bigger version. I love their format. 4 regions, 8 teams per region. Each region seeded 1-8, winner of Winner of region 1/2 plays winner of region 3/4 for the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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