Coaches Confidential: How would you make IHSAA football better?

[Footballking16]

8 minutes ago, Offintheyard said:

This has to be the most asinine thing I have read on this forum. You are seriously going to say that teams that go 2-7 didn't put as much if not more work than an 8-1 team? There are numerous reasons that several teams go 2-7 or worse and none of the reasons are that they didn't put in the time. Get out of here with that crap.

I agree with your premises but there's still no rational explanation as to why a team that goes 2-7 should EVER get a more favorable postseason draw than a team that goes 8-1 in almost any scenario imaginable.

[Bobref]

11 minutes ago, Offintheyard said:

This has to be the most asinine thing I have read on this forum.

You’ve been a member for 4-1/2 years. So, that is highly unlikely. 🤣

[Offintheyard]

9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I agree with your premises but there's still no rational explanation as to why a team that goes 2-7 should EVER get a more favorable postseason draw than a team that goes 8-1 in almost any scenario imaginable.

I agree about the draw. The sectionals should all be seeded. But saying a team or coaches don't put in the work at 2-7 is just not fair to those teams.

8 minutes ago, Bobref said:

You’ve been a member for 4-1/2 years. So, that is highly unlikely. 🤣

I've been a member a lot longer than 4 1/2 years. A few of yours over the years are right up there too.

[BTF]

5 minutes ago, Offintheyard said:

But saying a team or coaches don't put in the work at 2-7 is just not fair to those teams.

First of all, I said "chances are." Meaning, more times than not. Secondly, I never said coaches don't "put in the work." I'm sorry if my comment offended you, but I've been around long enough to know that, NORMALLY, the hardest working coach or player wins. No different than real life.  If you're a coach and you're not preaching that to your kids, then you might be in the wrong profession if championships are your main goal.

Maybe I'm just old school. When something goes wrong, I point the finger at me. Not backing off my comment.  I'm also a firm believer in 'get better or get used to it.' When a program goes decades winning championships, it would be an insult to say that their coaching staff isn't doing something different. Sure, there's lots of variables involved like recruiting, socioeconomic factors, and enrollment (why they have classes). That's why I choose my words like "chances are" and "normally" carefully. Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. 

Question: Is every high school weight room overflowing packed on Saturday mornings every weekend of the year? I know one that is. It's located somewhere in Central Indiana. 

 

[Whiting89]

Since ihsaa is a member organization and consensus is that a majority doesn’t want private schools in the ihsaa, why can’t they get voted out?

[Offintheyard]

56 minutes ago, BTF said:

First of all, I said "chances are." Meaning, more times than not. Secondly, I never said coaches don't "put in the work." I'm sorry if my comment offended you, but I've been around long enough to know that, NORMALLY, the hardest working coach or player wins. No different than real life.  If you're a coach and you're not preaching that to your kids, then you might be in the wrong profession if championships are your main goal.

Maybe I'm just old school. When something goes wrong, I point the finger at me. Not backing off my comment.  I'm also a firm believer in 'get better or get used to it.' When a program goes decades winning championships, it would be an insult to say that their coaching staff isn't doing something different. Sure, there's lots of variables involved like recruiting, socioeconomic factors, and enrollment (why they have classes). That's why I choose my words like "chances are" and "normally" carefully. Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. 

Question: Is every high school weight room overflowing packed on Saturday mornings every weekend of the year? I know one that is. It's located somewhere in Central Indiana. 

 

You must not choose all words carefully. You may want to re-read what you posted. The 4th word of the first sentence is coaches. You must not have been around many losing coaches or teams if you think that NORMALLY the hardest working coach or player wins. I agree that you get what you work for, however, your generalization that teams lose due to being outworked is wrong. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because it most certainly does but very rarely. There are so many other reasons other than how hard they worked or how much time they put in during the off season. 

 

[BTF]

14 minutes ago, Offintheyard said:

You must not choose all words carefully. You may want to re-read what you posted. The 4th word of the first sentence is coaches. You must not have been around many losing coaches or teams if you think that NORMALLY the hardest working coach or player wins. I agree that you get what you work for, however, your generalization that teams lose due to being outworked is wrong. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because it most certainly does but very rarely. There are so many other reasons other than how hard they worked or how much time they put in during the off season. 

 

A big shout out to all high school coaches who volunteer their time  to coach up and teach these kids.........regardless of their number of wins. I would include most paid positions as volunteer work as well, since from what I've been told, their compensation is less than minimum wage considering the amount of time they put in. I do realize this is a touchy topic, so I'll bow out. But before I do, I just want to add:

1.   The most asinine idea I've heard here on this forum is the elimination of 1A football, but that's just me. Hopefully Rodney isn't offended, I don't feel like tangling with him right now. 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by BTF

[Komets2727]

4 hours ago, BTF said:

Lucas Oil would be a good site. Too many important games being decided by inclimate weather. 

Agree with most of what you say, not this. Football was meant to be played outside in the elements on grass fields. Now, over time, we have pretty much done away with grass fields due to having crappy fields later in the season and having those fields being used for multiple sports. State title games, fine, go play indoors at Lucas Oil, not before that

[Offintheyard]

51 minutes ago, BTF said:

A big shout out to all high school coaches who volunteer their time  to coach up and teach these kids.........regardless of their number of wins. I would include most paid positions as volunteer work as well, since from what I've been told, their compensation is less than minimum wage considering the amount of time they put in. I do realize this is a touchy topic, so I'll bow out. But before I do, I just want to add:

1.   The most asinine idea I've heard here on this forum is the elimination of 1A football, but that's just me. Hopefully Rodney isn't offended, I don't feel like tangling with him right now. 

 

All of this I can agree with 100%

[JQWL]

I may have missed someone else mentioning it but I want to eliminate the official scrimmage and replace it with an additional regular season game.

[Komets2727]

5 hours ago, BTF said:

A big shout out to all high school coaches who volunteer their time  to coach up and teach these kids.........regardless of their number of wins. I would include most paid positions as volunteer work as well, since from what I've been told, their compensation is less than minimum wage considering the amount of time they put in. I do realize this is a touchy topic, so I'll bow out. But before I do, I just want to add:

1.   The most asinine idea I've heard here on this forum is the elimination of 1A football, but that's just me. Hopefully Rodney isn't offended, I don't feel like tangling with him right now. 

 

Great post!!! Yes, coaching at the high school level is not done to make money. They are paid basically nothing, with the exception of a few coaches. 1A football is great, any fool who wants to bash 1A football isn’t a true football fan

[JustRules]

10 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

About every sectional in Indiana you can go through and there is a clear top 4. Between Sagarin, AP poll, Coaches Poll, common sense, etc. the IHSAA should be able to figure it out. And guess what? If you are a 2 seed and should be a 1, you still don't see that other top team until the championship which is how it should be. It's such an easy fix, I have no idea why they don't do it.

The main reason they don't do it is there are enough coaches who want the chance to get an easy draw in the first round if they have a team that struggled. If they seed the top 4 in a sectional, they are assured of going on the road in the first round to a much better team. The current system the 2-7 team has a chance to draw the 1-8 team in the first round and get a tournament win. As long as enough coaches are of that mindsight, this will never be changed.

7 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

Since ihsaa is a member organization and consensus is that a majority doesn’t want private schools in the ihsaa, why can’t they get voted out?

A few internet posters and a small sampling of anonymous coaches is not a majority. The fans seem to care a lot more about this than coaches or players.

[Grover]

20 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

Donnie Baker said you could get in big trouble for this.....I swear to Gosh he did!

Paraphrasing Daniel Tosh:

Are you talking about Gosh…the father of Jesus Cripes?

Edited August 10, 2023 by Grover

[MarshallCounty]

12 hours ago, JQWL said:

I may have missed someone else mentioning it but I want to eliminate the official scrimmage and replace it with an additional regular season game.

No, we already expanded the season multiple times over the years. 2 week camp before scrimmage is a great measuring stick, and then a new week leading up to the first game. No sense in rushing kids back to play in the heat of August. We give up the scrimmage, in a couple years the coaches will want another scrimmage before the first new week.  

[JQWL]

Just now, MarshallCounty said:

No, we already expanded the season multiple times over the years. 2 week camp before scrimmage is a great measuring stick, and then a new week leading up to the first game. No sense in rushing kids back to play in the heat of August. We give up the scrimmage, in a couple years the coaches will want another scrimmage before the first new week.  

So you have a problem playing a game in the heat of August 11th but are ok with an official scrimmage August 11th?

If we give up the scrimmage, we don't have to worry about coaches wanting another scrimmage because they have already had 2-3 scrimmages during June and July(in the heat) and probably a couple 7 on 7's. They probably had an intersquad game last weekend also.

Since we are risking injury tomorrow, I'd rather it be in a game than a scrimmage. Kids really don't get many games. Having one less fake game and one more real game would be an improvement.

[oldtimeqb]

12 hours ago, JQWL said:

I may have missed someone else mentioning it but I want to eliminate the official scrimmage and replace it with an additional regular season game.

I would like to hear your reasoning for this. 

I don't like this idea, because I don't think 10 practices is enough to prepare a player for a full 48 minute game. At least one that "counts" in a W/L sense.   There are 387 basketball shootouts and 127 baseball tournaments over the summer, so some teams really don't have a full roster until Practice day 1.

Several Evansville schools give the last week of July off to hit the ground running on the first practice day.  But I still saw plenty of football players take that week to play one last AAU tournament or baseball showcase. 

If the season were extended an additional game, it should come in October, not August. 

[JQWL]

2 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

I would like to hear your reasoning for this. 

I don't like this idea, because I don't think 10 practices is enough to prepare a player for a full 48 minute game. At least one that "counts" in a W/L sense.   There are 387 basketball shootouts and 127 baseball tournaments over the summer, so some teams really don't have a full roster until Practice day 1.

Several Evansville schools give the last week of July off to hit the ground running on the first practice day.  But I still saw plenty of football players take that week to play one last AAU tournament or baseball showcase. 

If the season were extended an additional game, it should come in October, not August. 

I agree 10 practices wouldn't be enough if you didn't have the summer to prepare. All these schools are scrimmaging all summer. They have their stuff installed already. Kids have been conditioning for months. Do we really need a pre-season game? I don't feel like we do. If it were 1997 and all you did in the summer was lift and condition, then it would be different. Even the schools that gave their kids off the last week of July, probably just completed a camp and finished it with an 11 on 11 with 3 other schools.

[oldtimeqb]

21 minutes ago, JQWL said:

I agree 10 practices wouldn't be enough if you didn't have the summer to prepare. All these schools are scrimmaging all summer. They have their stuff installed already. Kids have been conditioning for months. Do we really need a pre-season game? I don't feel like we do. If it were 1997 and all you did in the summer was lift and condition, then it would be different. Even the schools that gave their kids off the last week of July, probably just completed a camp and finished it with an 11 on 11 with 3 other schools.

Fair points, but I don't know that I could say the bold part is true of ALL schools. And a 'thud' 11 v 11 is a different animal than a live play, tackled to the ground. The maximum is 48 plays per athlete in the scrimmage, which amounts to about 1.5 quarters to a half of a game.  Professional athletes in the NFL have pre-season games where they play less than a half, so I think HS athletes could use the same. 

I would rather see a jamboree style event with offense/defense and turnovers on downs.  

[MarshallCounty]

51 minutes ago, JQWL said:

So you have a problem playing a game in the heat of August 11th but are ok with an official scrimmage August 11th?

If we give up the scrimmage, we don't have to worry about coaches wanting another scrimmage because they have already had 2-3 scrimmages during June and July(in the heat) and probably a couple 7 on 7's. They probably had an intersquad game last weekend also.

Since we are risking injury tomorrow, I'd rather it be in a game than a scrimmage. Kids really don't get many games. Having one less fake game and one more real game would be an improvement.

Scrimmages allow for more substitutions. So yes, I am fine with scrimmages on August 11th.

 

[Bonecrusher]

23 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

About every sectional in Indiana you can go through and there is a clear top 4. Between Sagarin, AP poll, Coaches Poll, common sense, etc. the IHSAA should be able to figure it out. And guess what? If you are a 2 seed and should be a 1, you still don't see that other top team until the championship which is how it should be. It's such an easy fix, I have no idea why they don't do it. 

 

I'm pretty firmly against neutral site games (except for state of course). I know a little bit of it is bias because up here in the northern part of the state there really isn't too much travel between the schools. I know down in southern Indiana it gets to be quite a hall for some of the match ups. But at the end of the day I just don't think playing at a neutral site is going to create a great atmosphere for a championship game. I'd rather have 1 school pack a stadium with the entire community then have 2 schools travel 1.5 hours each with just their family friends. People talk about how the class system ruined Indiana High School basketball. I can see neutral or Saturday games doing something similar to football

I believe it depends heavily on the support level/buy-in from the parents and community.  How well do the fans travel?  How much do they get "into the game"?

Granted I haven't been to a HS game in Indiana for a good while so you may be correct for Hoosier ball, but I can tell you in the lone star state where I reside now, that argument about the atmosphere lacking won't hold water.

[Titan32]

19 hours ago, JQWL said:

I may have missed someone else mentioning it but I want to eliminate the official scrimmage and replace it with an additional regular season game.

The IHSAA scrimmage does less for us than our intra-squad scrimmage.  Our starters will play (8 offense 8 defensive) plays at our IHSAA scrimmage regardless if our opponent likes that or not.

[JQWL]

2 hours ago, Titan32 said:

The IHSAA scrimmage does less for us than our intra-squad scrimmage.  Our starters will play (8 offense 8 defensive) plays at our IHSAA scrimmage regardless if our opponent likes that or not.

Probably need to look into finding a different scrimmage opponent then.

[Titan32]

9 minutes ago, JQWL said:

Probably need to look into finding a different scrimmage opponent then.

It has absolutely nothing to do with our opponent, and how we have handled this "game" over the last 12 years.  This event is so worthless that we use it as an opportunity to get a look at our younger players and tweeners.  Imagine getting a starter hurt at this silly thing.

[JQWL]

2 hours ago, Titan32 said:

It has absolutely nothing to do with our opponent, and how we have handled this "game" over the last 12 years.  This event is so worthless that we use it as an opportunity to get a look at our younger players and tweeners.  Imagine getting a starter hurt at this silly thing.

So would you also prefer replacing the scrimmage with a 10th regular season game?

[Titan32]

2 hours ago, JQWL said:

So would you also prefer replacing the scrimmage with a 10th regular season game?

I would prefer anything to what we have now.  We have enough time in the summer to prepare to play.