Iowa High School Athletic Association (IHSAA) uses free and reduced lunch (FRL) percentages to determine football classification

[Southside]

 

I was at a college tailgate this weekend and another football parent mentioned this about Iowa.  I think someone on here was advocating for something like this in Indiana.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Southside

[Muda69]

33 minutes ago, Southside said:

 

I was at a college tailgate this weekend and another football parent mentioned this about Iowa.  I think someone on here was advocating for something like this in Indiana.

I'm game for this.

 

[Bobref]

Oh no. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in the frequent debates about the wisdom of an all-in tourney vs. a qualification format, it’s that we cannot learn anything from the experience of other states. We are unique in Indiana. So stop trying to pollute our perfect tournament with these newfangled ideas.

[temptation]

Some people don’t garner the respect they deserve until it’s too late or long after they’re gone…

[Coach Nowlin]

42 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Oh no. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in the frequent debates about the wisdom of an all-in tourney vs. a qualification format, it’s that we cannot learn anything from the experience of other states. We are unique in Indiana. So stop trying to pollute our perfect tournament with these newfangled ideas.

I believe two different topics at hand

1.  ALL IN vs Qualification 

and

2.  How to determine population of school/classification 

I find this Iowa way interesting, be wondering what results would look like after 2 years of them doing it this way 

 

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, Southside said:

 

I was at a college tailgate this weekend and another football parent mentioned this about Iowa.  I think someone on here was advocating for something like this in Indiana.

The adjustment based on FRL could be a start.  The only other thing that I'd want to look at, in addition, would be students with disabilities too that might impede them from participating in athletic activities.  It might be moot as several with disabilities also tend to be part of FRL grouping, but I think that a kid who's disabled should not count against a school's athletic denominator unless there is probability of them being in the numerator too.

[MarkCalaway]

So you want to punish kids who come from a good family?

[Titan32]

3 hours ago, Southside said:

 

I was at a college tailgate this weekend and another football parent mentioned this about Iowa.  I think someone on here was advocating for something like this in Indiana.

I like this....it kind of gets at the REAL issue in a roundabout way.

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

The adjustment based on FRL could be a start.  The only other thing that I'd want to look at, in addition, would be students with disabilities too that might impede them from participating in athletic activities.  It might be moot as several with disabilities also tend to be part of FRL grouping, but I think that a kid who's disabled should not count against a school's athletic denominator unless there is probability of them being in the numerator too.

Agree....we should add the number of disabled kids to the calculation.

[JQWL]

1 hour ago, MarkCalaway said:

So you want to punish kids who come from a good family?

How is that a punishment? They aren't playing up. They are classified by theor enrollment. Also, you are confusing a family with money with being a good family.

[Yuccaguy]

4 hours ago, MarkCalaway said:

So you want to punish kids who come from a good family?

Getting to the HEART of the "school choice/voucher" thing aren't we?  

Welfare for those who want a Tesla,  paid for with the monies that go those who drive a 20 year old Chevy....  

[tango]

13 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Getting to the HEART of the "school choice/voucher" thing aren't we?  

Welfare for those who want a Tesla,  paid for with the monies that go those who drive a 20 year old Chevy....  

I've seen a lot more $75,000 trucks at our games with Gibson Southern with Titan stickers than at our games at Enlow, but maybe it's just poor unsubsidized farmers...

Edited October 15, 2024 by tango

[Yuccaguy]

5 minutes ago, tango said:

I've seen a lot more $75,000 trucks at our games with Gibson Southern with Titan stickers than at our games at Enlow, but maybe it's just poor unsubsidized farmers...

(I've) no idea of what you are getting at in the 'metropolitan area' that encompasses Gibson County?  There aren't a lot of options there.

Seems to be a much LARGER Indiana County situation with regards to school "choice" and the detachment of public school funding to the local school system(s) in the other more diverse systems.  

 

[hondo17]

I like how Iowa does co ops and 8 man football. 

 

Lots of studs from 1a and 2a level go on and play around Iowa or Iowa State. 

Edited October 15, 2024 by hondo17

[Cloudy14]

I'm genuinely interested in knowing thoughts on how this "levels" competition.  What's the rationale behind this? (real question, no sarcasm) Its an interesting concept, I just can't wrap my head around what this does to level the playing field. I've been in two different school districts with similar FRL percentages.  One district was mediocre on the football field and the other has a great history with football. Just trying to understand why FRL athletes and disadvantaged toward non-FRL athletes.

 

@foxbat I like the disability argument, as that correlates directly to the football field, but disability may not directly correlate with FRL.

 

I very much understand the school funding side of this equation, so outside of that, how does this help on the football field?

[Muda69]

3 minutes ago, Cloudy14 said:

I'm genuinely interested in knowing thoughts on how this "levels" competition.  What's the rationale behind this? (real question, no sarcasm) Its an interesting concept, I just can't wrap my head around what this does to level the playing field. I've been in two different school districts with similar FRL percentages.  One district was mediocre on the football field and the other has a great history with football. Just trying to understand why FRL athletes and disadvantaged toward non-FRL athletes.

 

@foxbat I like the disability argument, as that correlates directly to the football field, but disability may not directly correlate with FRL.

 

I very much understand the school funding side of this equation, so outside of that, how does this help on the football field?

So you have  a "4A" school, in terms of total enrollment, that is in reality more of a "2A" sized in regards to athletic participation.  This can be traced to various socioeconomic factors where these students will almost never choose to participate in government school extracurricular athletics programs because bluntly, they have to work a part time job to either feed themselves or help keep a roof over their family's head.  Extracurricular sports are simply not a priority in their life, or their family's life.   Or, in the specific sport of American tackle football their may be societal norms where families are just not "fans" of the sport, and instead push their children into other sports like soccer, baseball, wrestling, etc. 

One question I would pose to the GID cognoscenti is what do you believe is the average varsity roster size for each enrollment classification, 1A to 6A?  Does roster size, and also to some extant the number of athletes you have playing both ways (offense & defense) play a role in the success, or lack thereof,  on Friday night against other schools in the same enrollment classification?

 

[Titan32]

11 hours ago, tango said:

I've seen a lot more $75,000 trucks at our games with Gibson Southern with Titan stickers than at our games at Enlow, but maybe it's just poor unsubsidized farmers...

South Gibson School Corp FRL is going to run about 25%.  I will get the exact numbers soon.

[temptation]

52 minutes ago, Cloudy14 said:

I'm genuinely interested in knowing thoughts on how this "levels" competition.  What's the rationale behind this? (real question, no sarcasm) Its an interesting concept, I just can't wrap my head around what this does to level the playing field. I've been in two different school districts with similar FRL percentages.  One district was mediocre on the football field and the other has a great history with football. Just trying to understand why FRL athletes and disadvantaged toward non-FRL athletes.

 

@foxbat I like the disability argument, as that correlates directly to the football field, but disability may not directly correlate with FRL.

 

I very much understand the school funding side of this equation, so outside of that, how does this help on the football field?

Can you reveal the two schools?

[US31]

Some people are doing an excellent job of picking up on sarcasm today....

:sarcasm:

[Donnie Baker]

What class would Woofie be on the Funion and hot pocket diet? 

[Cloudy14]

38 minutes ago, temptation said:

Can you reveal the two schools?

I would rather not share.  One is in southern indiana, one is in central indiana.

[temptation]

11 minutes ago, Cloudy14 said:

I would rather not share.  One is in southern indiana, one is in central indiana.

Gotcha.  Can you speak to the enrollment at each?

[Cloudy14]

Just now, temptation said:

Gotcha.  Can you speak to the enrollment at each?

Both straddle 1A/2A depending on sport

[temptation]

6 minutes ago, Cloudy14 said:

Both straddle 1A/2A depending on sport

Both public?

[Titan32]

59 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

South Gibson School Corp FRL is going to run about 25%.  I will get the exact numbers soon.

163 students at Gibson Southern.  26% of the student body.  

[foxbat]

Just curious ... do Indiana schools keep numbers on participation rates in extra curricular activities in their schools as a component of their general state reporting?