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Forget Seeding ... how about NEUTRAL SITE Regional and Semi-States please!


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23 minutes ago, tango said:

Home side for Bishop Chatard at Ev. Memorial in 2018 3A South Semi-State.  IHSAA made a lot of money that night.  I don’t believe this many would travel to a neutral site between Indy and Evansville. image.thumb.jpeg.d77c6385f3bf17d547859374972ad2fb.jpeg
 

This is actually Bishop Chatard vs Evansville Memorial @ Enlow Field.  @ Evansville Bosse 😉

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3 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

Everyone has their own opinion, and they're all right, because it's just an opinion.

I think people would travel.  You don't always have to play on a Friday night.  There are Saturday during the day and night options available as well.  You could play 3-4 games on a Saturday.  That would probably help the host school make some concession money.

I know fans who won't drive 3 blocks in bad weather to sit out in the rain or cold, so using weather as an excuse doesn't really hold up.  There are also many schools I've visited where kids would have to walk 10 miles on country roads to get to the field, so a lot of schools don't have walkability.

Good points from both sides.  I would like to see it attempted.  You can't say it won't work if you don't at least give it a shot.

I agree with Saturday play..but, as you may find out Ball, very few coaches want to play on Saturday..

I love Saturday afternoon playoff football.  I think half the state tourney should be on Friday and the other half should be on Saturday (as the finals are) But we are in the vast minority.

  ..and we're not talking 10 miles to a nuetral site. We're talking rfegional and semistaes so we're talking 40-50 miles. 

 Kids walk to school at every high school on earth. Nobody walks 50 miles to a football game at night in November....

 

I cant swear to you that it wont work since its never been done. I'm just saying that in 100 years of following other people's children, I've asked a lot of these questions (including this one) and the answer is:  The IHSAA will not consider neutral site football playoff games because they like sellouts on home sites. . . 

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55 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

I agree with Saturday play..but, as you may find out Ball, very few coaches want to play on Saturday..

I love Saturday afternoon playoff football.  I think half the state tourney should be on Friday and the other half should be on Saturday (as the finals are) But we are in the vast minority.

  ..and we're not talking 10 miles to a nuetral site. We're talking rfegional and semistaes so we're talking 40-50 miles. 

 Kids walk to school at every high school on earth. Nobody walks 50 miles to a football game at night in November....

 

I cant swear to you that it wont work since its never been done. I'm just saying that in 100 years of following other people's children, I've asked a lot of these questions (including this one) and the answer is:  The IHSAA will not consider neutral site football playoff games because they like sellouts on home sites. . . 

I've long been a proponent of Saturday afternoon playoff games for at least Regionals or Semi-State. Even Illinois and Ohio do it. I think the attendance draws would be better as the weather is often nicer than a November Friday night and it gives opposing/casual fans an easier travel schedule. The fantastic picture from Enlow Field for Memorial/Chatard is an outlier. 50-75% empty stadiums at the 4A-6A level for Regionals and Semi-State is the norm as can be seen on IHSAATV broadcasts the past few years.

 

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10 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

I've long been a proponent of Saturday afternoon playoff games for at least Regionals or Semi-State. Even Illinois and Ohio do it. I think the attendance draws would be better as the weather is often nicer than a November Friday night and it gives opposing/casual fans an easier travel schedule. The fantastic picture from Enlow Field for Memorial/Chatard is an outlier. 50-75% empty stadiums at the 4A-6A level for Regionals and Semi-State is the norm as can be seen on IHSAATV broadcasts the past few years.

 

Illinois pretty much plays all playoff games on Saturdays, except for a few Friday night games around Chicago in the first and second rounds. 

My family members there talk about the special atmosphere of earning the right to play on Saturdays because that meant you made the playoffs. (Not to open that can of worms.)

But yes, semi state definitely could be Saturday doubleheaders (3pm and 7pm) at neutral sites. 

One reason most coaches don’t like Saturday games is that they think their opponents who play on Friday get an extra day of game prep on them. Everybody playing Saturday changes that equation.

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2 hours ago, tango said:

Home side for Bishop Chatard at Ev. Memorial in 2018 3A South Semi-State.  IHSAA made a lot of money that night.  I don’t believe this many would travel to a neutral site between Indy and Evansville. image.thumb.jpeg.d77c6385f3bf17d547859374972ad2fb.jpeg
 

This is a great point. Competitive balance vs. the almighty dollar. 

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1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

 

  

 Kids walk to school at every high school on earth. Nobody walks 50 miles to a football game at night in November....

 

 

On this point, you are incorrect, unless they are dropped off at the road and they walk to the building.  Unless in your 100-year old world kids still walk uphill 6 miles in a blizzard to get to school.

Just off the top of my head, North Newton or Tri County don't have a home within walking distance.  I'm sure that list would grow if I put my old noggin' to work, but it ain't happening this morning.

I have a real problem with those that say never or say something won't work without giving it a shot.  That's just the kind of thinking that feeds the impression that Indiana is always way behind the times or too stuck in the past.  I'm old, but I'm not close-minded.

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1 hour ago, Boilernation said:

50-75% empty stadiums at the 4A-6A level for Regionals and Semi-State is the norm as can be seen on IHSAATV broadcasts the past few years.

 

Depends on the teams playing, the venue, and the weather. A crowd of 5,000 can look like it fills up most stadiums, but that would be 50 percent capacity of Ben Davis and Warren's stadiums.

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4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Depends on the teams playing, the venue, and the weather. A crowd of 5,000 can look like it fills up most stadiums, but that would be 50 percent capacity of Ben Davis and Warren's stadiums.

From what I've seen the past few years, Warren is lucky to get 1,000 fans on the homeside of a playoff game.

 

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24 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Danny has obviously never been to Arcadia.

You are correct Ron.  Never saw/had a need.

Oddly enough, I did see a mileage sign to Arcadia IN Lowell.

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18 hours ago, Bobref said:

 

 

Your guarantees notwithstanding, and putting aside the whole issue of the advantage for the home team and whether that is fair or unfair, your entire case is built on the proposition that neutral site games attract fewer, not more, fans. Other than your sincerely held belief, do you have any support for that proposition? Because the prevalence of neutral site games in other states seems to suggest otherwise.

Yes.  Neutrals work great in the state where I currently reside and there would probably be a revolt if they did away with them. 

However, every state is different, weather is different, travel times different, different sports have different levels of popularity and different levels of commitment in their fan bases.

Vive la difference.

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2 minutes ago, Bonecrusher said:

How are fans that travel well stupid?  Are you referring to traveling in spite of the the Covid-19 dangers?

I'm just saying a person with intelligence would rather travel 5 miles to a game than a 100 hundred miles to a game. I guess I'd rather be smart than true.

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1 hour ago, jakone said:

I'm just saying a person with intelligence would rather travel 5 miles to a game than a 100 hundred miles to a game. I guess I'd rather be smart than true.

Well yeah, that's stating the obvious.  I thought, incorrectly, that you were taking a dig at fans that will go to great lengths to support their team.  My bad.

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7 hours ago, eschnur66 said:

This is actually Bishop Chatard vs Evansville Memorial @ Enlow Field.  @ Evansville Bosse 😉

LOL.  I assumed everyone would know Enlow Field, seeing that it's the best stadium in Evansville...  And did anyone notice Coach Robbins?  LOL.

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8 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

Illinois pretty much plays all playoff games on Saturdays, except for a few Friday night games around Chicago in the first and second rounds. 

My family members there talk about the special atmosphere of earning the right to play on Saturdays because that meant you made the playoffs. (Not to open that can of worms.)

But yes, semi state definitely could be Saturday doubleheaders (3pm and 7pm) at neutral sites. 

One reason most coaches don’t like Saturday games is that they think their opponents who play on Friday get an extra day of game prep on them. Everybody playing Saturday changes that equation.

Not my experience OT QB. Most coaches dont want to play Saturday because it changes the routine of the team. Players are creatures of habit and coaches do not want to change their season-long habit.

Again, that is NOT my opinion. That is what I've been told over and over by multiple coaches.

I agree with everyone here who says that Saturday afternoon regional and semistate games in November would be a beautiful thing.

I dont want a thousand of my fans traveling at night. Days games get warmer as they go along. Night games get colder.

But there is a not a lot for support for Saturday games in  my part of the state....When I suggest it, I get a dirty look and am told to go watch the movie 'Friday Night Lights'

 

 

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7 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

On this point, you are incorrect, unless they are dropped off at the road and they walk to the building.  Unless in your 100-year old world kids still walk uphill 6 miles in a blizzard to get to school.

Just off the top of my head, North Newton or Tri County don't have a home within walking distance.  I'm sure that list would grow if I put my old noggin' to work, but it ain't happening this morning.

I have a real problem with those that say never or say something won't work without giving it a shot.  That's just the kind of thinking that feeds the impression that Indiana is always way behind the times or too stuck in the past.  I'm old, but I'm not close-minded.

Folks walk to the football game at North Newton, Ball.  Havent been there for many years but I've been there and they do./

. I've never been to a school where, kids didnt walk to the game. Neutral site games take that away.

When I was in high school in Illinois, we didnt have a home field and I walked to all our 'home' games. But the field was only 14-15 blocks away.

I dont understand the reason to try neutral site games in Indiana but you do so you may be missing my larger point. 

 

 

When I was young, I thought I knew everything so I'd go downstate (for my newspaper) with teams and I'd give them a piece of my mind. I'd ask someone from the IHSAA about seeding. Or Saturday football. Or a 10-game regular season. Or the all-inclusive state tourney. Or the horrible overtime format.  Or neutral site games. I would tell them what I think. 

Then the very pleasant HSAA fellow would look at me, ask me where I was from and smile politely. And then he would sound like 'The Rock' on the old wrestling shows when he would say very kindly,   "It doesn't matter what you think!!!!"

The answer was: We want games played on home sites. We want that home sellout. That atmosphere. 

 

 

Then the nice IHSAA fellow would remind me that I got in for free and that if I ever wanted to ever get in for free again, that I should sit down and shut up. 

 

 

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I have been saying for many years that semi-states should be played on Saturday afternoon with double-headers at neutral sites.   This would give the players a chance to play at a small college or larger high school venue, would allow proper seating, concessions and restrooms for fans and travel would be during daylight hours not late on a dark Friday night.   Two games would generate additional revenue to the host site and give fans a chance to see four great teams and two games.

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25 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Folks walk to the football game at North Newton, Ball.  Havent been there for many years but I've been there and they do./

. I've never been to a school where, kids didnt walk to the game. Neutral site games take that away.

When I was in high school in Illinois, we didnt have a home field and I walked to all our 'home' games. But the field was only 14-15 blocks away.

I dont understand the reason to try neutral site games in Indiana but you do so you may be missing my larger point. 

 

 

When I was young, I thought I knew everything so I'd go downstate (for my newspaper) with teams and I'd give them a piece of my mind. I'd ask someone from the IHSAA about seeding. Or Saturday football. Or a 10-game regular season. Or the all-inclusive state tourney. Or the horrible overtime format.  Or neutral site games. I would tell them what I think. 

Then the very pleasant HSAA fellow would look at me, ask me where I was from and smile politely. And then he would sound like 'The Rock' on the old wrestling shows when he would say very kindly,   "It doesn't matter what you think!!!!"

The answer was: We want games played on home sites. We want that home sellout. That atmosphere. 

 

 

Then the nice IHSAA fellow would remind me that I got in for free and that if I ever wanted to ever get in for free again, that I should sit down and shut up. 

In your zeal to make sure the IHSAA captures the all-important walkup market for its upper level tournament games, you’ve failed to address a central issue. At that level of the tournament, since we don’t have seeding, why should one team have home field advantage?

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

In your zeal to make sure the IHSAA captures the all-important walkup market for its upper level tournament games, you’ve failed to address a central issue. At that level of the tournament, since we don’t have seeding, why should one team have home field advantage?

One team should have home field so the IHSAA can draw the most fans, Bob.  That's the answer. You're not hearing me. They dont care how you and I feel. 

   Its the IHSAA's tournament and they have no reason to change. They apparently feel that alternating arbitrary home sites is fair. They want home sites.

 

 I guess you missed the moral of my little E-true Hollywood story story.  I have asked that question that you ask and I'm telling you the answer I got. . 

They dont agree with you and they dont care how you and I feel.

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14 hours ago, tango said:

LOL.  I assumed everyone would know Enlow Field, seeing that it's the best stadium in Evansville...  And did anyone notice Coach Robbins?  LOL.

I jus had to get that shot in!  I am a big fan of Coach Robbins, as he has been a great advocate of mine!

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