DumfriesYMCA Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 The class of 2022 is a STRONG class…depending on the site, there are 10 4 Star kids with 2 guys (Curry & Goodwin) as possible 5 Star guys.  but I gotta ask….how much of this is actually done with a process and what even goes into it.  the reason I bring this up is because Rory Heltsley on Gibson Southern has an offer from Air Force and 3 FCS offers to go with it….he has 60 or so catches for 1100 yards and 19 TDs on the year…kid is exceeding all the buzz….so you would think he would have some recruiting profile or something….nope  247 has 50 kids in Indiana ranked with at least a 2star ranking for the class of 2022…and Rory isn’t one of them…and I just don’t understand how at this point.  I just feel like rivals/247/espn have little to no process on this  and I know there are other kids besides Rory that get left out too, he was just the strongest example, that I know of, to ask this question/get this topic started  it’s all just seems like a crapshoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaringthunderdlr Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 You may have a point but you also have to account that Brady Allen is his quarterback which may affect it. But also Jack Tuttle was higher ranked than Chris Olave, despite playing at the same school, and you saw how that went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, roaringthunderdlr said: You may have a point but you also have to account that Brady Allen is his quarterback which may affect it. But also Jack Tuttle was higher ranked than Chris Olave, despite playing at the same school, and you saw how that went. Wait, I thought Tom Allen was a phenomenal developer of talent. Or was that just last year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southend Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Defensive talent. Wilson offense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, roaringthunderdlr said: You may have a point but you also have to account that Brady Allen is his quarterback which may affect it. But also Jack Tuttle was higher ranked than Chris Olave, despite playing at the same school, and you saw how that went. I’m sure that factors in a little bit but for many recruits, their offers come from visits and camps where you don’t have that chemistry with your teammates…so I have to imagine these kids (rory in this case) have already shown that they are good enough on their own merits.  I just feel like you could take any kid in Indiana having a phenomenal season…you could slap a 3 star or 4 star rating on their profile and they would have 5 offers tomorrow….but all those kids with no stars/profiles/rankings ….unless they are playing in a big metro like indy/make it to a big time game in November   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallCounty Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Coaches will find you if you have talent. College coaches don't use the rankings to decide on who to recruit.   1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said: Coaches will find you if you have talent. College coaches don't use the rankings to decide on who to recruit.   I mean…yes… but I’m speaking more about what happens when you get outside of the camps and 7on7  it’s unrealistic to expect every college program to watch every talented kids film.  So once you’re outside of camps/visits, they have to be able to find the prospects outside of their region….and 247/Rivals/espn is going to guide that…and maybe it goes both ways….if Alabama is offering a kid, they are going to get a boost.  The kids being recruited to the MAC schools or FCS could very well (and sometimes are) be more talented but are the recruiting sites actually grading talent or are they grading on a curve based on which coaches have actually seen them/have offered  if a kid commits early to ball state and is a hard commit, are they going to increase their ratings if the kid performs better than expected?  Or will the kid stay the same despite showing the talent of being much much better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said: I’m sure that factors in a little bit but for many recruits, their offers come from visits and camps where you don’t have that chemistry with your teammates…so I have to imagine these kids (rory in this case) have already shown that they are good enough on their own merits.  I just feel like you could take any kid in Indiana having a phenomenal season…you could slap a 3 star or 4 star rating on their profile and they would have 5 offers tomorrow….but all those kids with no stars/profiles/rankings ….unless they are playing in a big metro like indy/make it to a big time game in November   Fort Wayne is a big Metro Area. Yet 247 doesn't even acknowledge Tyrese Brown. That's a head scratcher. But what do I know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said: I mean…yes… but I’m speaking more about what happens when you get outside of the camps and 7on7  it’s unrealistic to expect every college program to watch every talented kids film.  So once you’re outside of camps/visits, they have to be able to find the prospects outside of their region….and 247/Rivals/espn is going to guide that…and maybe it goes both ways….if Alabama is offering a kid, they are going to get a boost.  The kids being recruited to the MAC schools or FCS could very well (and sometimes are) be more talented but are the recruiting sites actually grading talent or are they grading on a curve based on which coaches have actually seen them/have offered  if a kid commits early to ball state and is a hard commit, are they going to increase their ratings if the kid performs better than expected?  Or will the kid stay the same despite showing the talent of being much much better? There’s data out there regarding NFL draft picks and their star ratings out of high school and though I’m too lazy to look it up right now, it speaks highly of 2/3 star recruits having more success at the college and pro level compared to their 4/5 Star counterparts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, temptation said: There’s data out there regarding NFL draft picks and their star ratings out of high school and though I’m too lazy to look it up right now, it speaks highly of 2/3 star recruits having more success at the college and pro level compared to their 4/5 Star counterparts. Not enough attention being given to on the field performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilernation Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, BTF said: Not enough attention being given to on the field performance? My guess would be it's a combination of the following: Who do you have offers from? Have you attended National / Regional camps where the recruiting guru's have seen you? What schools have you visited and has a rivals/247 writer covering that school wrote about you? It's alot easier to say the kid with offers from Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oregon (i.e. National Recruit) is a 5 star and the kid with Indiana, Purdue, Kentucky, and Missouri offers is only a 3 star. Doesn't necessarily mean the 5 star will be better in college. A good local example is James Aldridge from Merrillville. He shot up to 5 star status when USC, LSU, Notre Dame, etc. wanted him. I don't even think he had 100 total rushing yards in his career at Notre Dame. Hypothetically, my guess would be that if the kid in question from Gibson Southern officially visited Purdue AND the visit was covered by Gold & Black Illustrated he would be added to the database as a 2 or 3 star recruit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHPatriots Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said: The class of 2022 is a STRONG class…depending on the site, there are 10 4 Star kids with 2 guys (Curry & Goodwin) as possible 5 Star guys.  but I gotta ask….how much of this is actually done with a process and what even goes into it.  the reason I bring this up is because Rory Heltsley on Gibson Southern has an offer from Air Force and 3 FCS offers to go with it….he has 60 or so catches for 1100 yards and 19 TDs on the year…kid is exceeding all the buzz….so you would think he would have some recruiting profile or something….nope  247 has 50 kids in Indiana ranked with at least a 2star ranking for the class of 2022…and Rory isn’t one of them…and I just don’t understand how at this point.  I just feel like rivals/247/espn have little to no process on this  and I know there are other kids besides Rory that get left out too, he was just the strongest example, that I know of, to ask this question/get this topic started  it’s all just seems like a crapshoot I will get to observe for myself this Friday night, but how fast is Rory? Actual 40 time? In the objective numbers, where is he at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilernation Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, BTF said: Not enough attention being given to on the field performance? I'm sure there are a variety of factors. Some guys can be absolute beasts in HS when they can get by on talent alone, but don't have the mental capacity to read the game at the college level. Some guys are just late bloomers and forever whatever reason took major leaps from HS to College. Craig Terrill wasn't highly recruited out of Lebanon in 1999, but he turned into a force at Purdue and spent about 6 seasons in the NFL playing on the D Line for Seattle. I'm sure there are 4/5 star guys choosing to stay buried on the depth chart at an Alabama or Ohio State that could have developed into NFL talent had they opted to go somewhere they could get meaningful reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 29 minutes ago, BTF said: Not enough attention being given to on the field performance? This is kinda what my point is….but more to the idea of how exposure influences the ratings…I feel like the process is flawed  and don’t get me wrong, character is always a big part of recruiting and ultimately leads to a coaches choice to offer or not…but this isn’t about a coaches choice to offer or not…it’s more about the process that gets a kids name on the desk or the kids film pulled up with the recruiting staff.   Can’t help but think there are too many prospects out there who’s film doesn’t even get watched because the staff is super busy and just go through the guys 247/rivals has listed…and the 247/rivals staff are chasing clicks and not talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 23 minutes ago, Boilernation said: My guess would be it's a combination of the following: Who do you have offers from? Have you attended National / Regional camps where the recruiting guru's have seen you? What schools have you visited and has a rivals/247 writer covering that school wrote about you? It's alot easier to say the kid with offers from Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oregon (i.e. National Recruit) is a 5 star and the kid with Indiana, Purdue, Kentucky, and Missouri offers is only a 3 star. Doesn't necessarily mean the 5 star will be better in college. A good local example is James Aldridge from Merrillville. He shot up to 5 star status when USC, LSU, Notre Dame, etc. wanted him. You explain this better than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 32 minutes ago, HHPatriots said: I will get to observe for myself this Friday night, but how fast is Rory? Actual 40 time? In the objective numbers, where is he at? Tbh I have no idea.  fast enough to make you pay dearly…but at his size and frame he is more of a crisp route runner and possession receiver.  He’s fast for his size and moves well…he’s just that much better at route running and what he does after the catch that you don’t really need to question the speed.  for a kid who is 6’3 and a focus point for opposing defenses every week….he’s slippery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, HHPatriots said: I will get to observe for myself this Friday night, but how fast is Rory? Actual 40 time? In the objective numbers, where is he at? You mean he isn't in Coach Wilkerson's personal 40 time database? ...he he....inside joke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Titan32 said: You mean he isn't in Coach Wilkerson's personal 40 time database? ...he he....inside joke. At least he would be in a database lol  he’s got at least 4 offers and 247/rivals doesn’t even have him in their database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said: At least he would be in a database lol  he’s got at least 4 offers and 247/rivals doesn’t even have him in their database Like others have said...he hasn't been to one of their events.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiting89 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 High school performance irrelevant it’s all about measurables. You see a lot of high school players peak in high school as they matured faster and 3 star guys go to the pros because they mature more in college and get better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I could care less about the length of a guys wingspan or how high he can jump. Give me a bunch of guys who put up big performance numbers on field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Titan32 said: Like others have said...he hasn't been to one of their events.  What were his numbers as a sophomore and junior? I haven't followed GS as closely the last few years since we aren't in 3A, but my sense is that he has emerged more recently. Obviously he went to camps, etc. over the summer (as I see retweets from a GS fan I know 🙂), but I don't remember seeing as much the previous years. Also, a deep playoff run will probably get him some more exposure (and maybe a lineman or two). Things kind of heated up a little more for a couple of our better guys (Lindauer & Branson Combs) once we won state in 2017. Even with that, Branson Combs was a kid who many thought was under-recruited, much like what is being said about Heltsey.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Some sources..... https://bleacherreport.com/articles/117345-recruiting-for-beginners-part-i-how-are-players-ranked https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/do-football-recruiting-ratings-matter/ https://www.cougcenter.com/wsu-football-recruiting/2013/2/5/3956800/rivals-scout-espn-247-star-rating-system-national-signing-day   1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 3 hours ago, tango said: What were his numbers as a sophomore and junior? I haven't followed GS as closely the last few years since we aren't in 3A, but my sense is that he has emerged more recently. Obviously he went to camps, etc. over the summer (as I see retweets from a GS fan I know 🙂), but I don't remember seeing as much the previous years. Also, a deep playoff run will probably get him some more exposure (and maybe a lineman or two). Things kind of heated up a little more for a couple of our better guys (Lindauer & Branson Combs) once we won state in 2017. Even with that, Branson Combs was a kid who many thought was under-recruited, much like what is being said about Heltsey.  He didn't really emerge until last season (had senior receivers ahead of him when he was a sophomore) then he really took off this season so I think what you are saying is spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted November 29, 2021 Author Share Posted November 29, 2021 Rory Heltsley capped his HS career off with  99 receptions 1751 yards (1st in Indiana, 3rd in US) 24 TDs (1st in Indiana, 2nd in US)  ….Still no stars….but he does have a profile on 24/7 now listing his offers….so maybe he’s getting some long overdue attention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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