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Basementbias

Thoughts on Tweaking Success Factor

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Any thoughts on tweaking this just a tad by having a 1 year point total within the 2 year time frame automatically moving a team up before the cycle ends? Maybe winning state automatically would move a team up to a higher class?

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7 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Any thoughts on tweaking this just a tad by having a 1 year point total within the 2 year time frame automatically moving a team up before the cycle ends? Maybe winning state automatically would move a team up to a higher class?

Whole heartedly disagree with this. We see great classes come and go every year. 

 

For example. Evansville memorial state champs in 2017 runner up in 2018 just graduated an insane class who had numerous long term starters. A 4 year starter at QB.  One heckuva WR and I think there was a really big fella on OL for 4 years too.  Sure....they could have contended in 4A this last year. They mopped the floor with the SIAC this past year alone.....but now they are in 4A and I’m not sure they have the pieces ready to contend for a regional.  

 

Linton had great class a few years ago too....and plenty of other teams come to mind with great classes...like pioneer....webo....tri West a few years back.  

 

My point really is, there is no perfect system. And while 2 years could mean getting your butt whooped in consecutive years, it’s a system that still works and has balanced itself out.  At 2 years you protect the schools that have that magical senior season but you allow movement for schools that compete for the state title over 2 years....there are still schools who see big falloff with this but they usually fair okay and then they move back down. 

 

Its not a perfect system but any proposed change that I think most people would seek out would be one for 2 years with extra elements that factor in 2-6 years. Probably wayyy too complicated for the ihsaa to take on lol. 

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9 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Any thoughts on tweaking this just a tad by having a 1 year point total within the 2 year time frame automatically moving a team up before the cycle ends? Maybe winning state automatically would move a team up to a higher class?

Doubt the IHSAA would do something like that because they would have to shuffle the Sectionals each & every year.

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15 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Any thoughts on tweaking this just a tad by having a 1 year point total within the 2 year time frame automatically moving a team up before the cycle ends? Maybe winning state automatically would move a team up to a higher class?

Completely disagree.  I think it should go the other way.  Like a 4 year cycle instead of 2.  1 very good class can easily get you enough points to move up which I don't think was the intention at all.  

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38 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

Completely disagree.  I think it should go the other way.  Like a 4 year cycle instead of 2.  1 very good class can easily get you enough points to move up which I don't think was the intention at all.  

I'd be in favor of a longer cycle as well. Completely agree that one great class can ruin the opportunity to compete for a good not great upcoming class. 

I'd like to see an "Unsuccess Factor" too. I've read about it on here before and thought it was a good idea. Bump a team down if they haven't won a sectional game is x amount of seasons. I think it would be a great way for struggling programs to build. I realize it would not benefit struggling 1A teams but that would be about the same as teams who are struggling and stuck in 6A because of enrollment in the current system.

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2 hours ago, CoachJackson said:

I'd be in favor of a longer cycle as well. Completely agree that one great class can ruin the opportunity to compete for a good not great upcoming class. 

I'd like to see an "Unsuccess Factor" too. I've read about it on here before and thought it was a good idea. Bump a team down if they haven't won a sectional game is x amount of seasons. I think it would be a great way for struggling programs to build. I realize it would not benefit struggling 1A teams but that would be about the same as teams who are struggling and stuck in 6A because of enrollment in the current system.

I should expand to mention that if the team moved up after 1 year doesn't earn say at least a regional, then they move back down to enrollment class. It just seems that in some cases, you know a certain team will walk through the field that year or for a second year in a row. I think the success factor is working for the most part, just think that maybe something could be done in those cases.

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16 hours ago, Screagle said:

Longer cycle make sense IMO. 

Based on my observations in Indiana and Ohio, it just allows certain programs to have longer periods of dominance. Especially in the smaller classes. It's interesting as Ohio members would like something close to the Success Factor to replace their new Competitive Balance fiasco. They'd like to re-classify their divisions every year and would maybe consider 2 years as the longest, but not preferred.

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3 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Reminder IFCA original proposal was 4 years 10 points 

 

 

Makes sense! 

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it did:    IHSAA took that and ran with our proposal and cut it up and to 2 years 6 points 

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4 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

it did:    IHSAA took that and ran with our proposal and cut it up and to 2 years 6 points 

So in the 4 year proposal....if moved up did you stay up for 4 years with whatever the maintenance point levels were...or did you drop back after 2 years if you didn't meet the maintenance point level.

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4 year cycles 

I want to say maintenance was 6 points but it was long time ago so memory completely fuzzy on it

Former Coach G was on the committee, not sure if he signed back up on the reboot recently or not, he would be the go to on it from my knowledge 

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I think 4 years would be better because under the current format a team can win state 2nd year of one enrollment period and win again the first year of new period and have back to back state titles without moving as long as they didn't win more then sectional the other year in each petiod.

Another team wins regional and state but both in same period and moves up.

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It does appear that the IHSAA did approve a proposed minor change to the Success Factor. For schools that have been bumped-up to a higher class, the proposal was to lower the minimum number of points to remain in that higher class from 3pts to 2pts during the 2-year cycle. 

In today's Sectional alignments, Marquette boys basketball is still listed in 2A after earning 2pts (2 sectional titles) in 2018 & 2019. 

This is a good change, in my opinion. If you're good enough to win back-to-back Sectionals or 1 Regional, then you're competitive enough to remain up there instead of dropping down.

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Glad we finally have a mercy rule although this will make some of the games longer. With the previous allowance we had a couple 2nd halves that took 25 minutes because the clock didn't stop for anything. With this mercy rule it will stop for time outs, scores or injuries. There are more games though that will result in a running clock because of this so overall it's a good change.

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Posted (edited)

I believe that we would have the same issues with a 4 yr cycle that we are having with the 2 yr system. Depending on timing of when you have a great class come through.  Everybody knows why we have this stupid rule. Get rid of the rule and stop whining if you can get out of your sectional because you didn't work as hard as the team that beat you. I know that is a pipe dream (it is here to stay)!

Edited by Titanbacker

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I think it should be tossed out. Punishing a program for being good is BS. So if Dwenger who just moved up to 5a get 2 points they go up to 6A? So every year they are going to tweak who goes where for tournament time. Should be set by enrollment only. My opinion 

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47 minutes ago, Mebuck said:

I think it should be tossed out. Punishing a program for being good is BS. So if Dwenger who just moved up to 5a get 2 points they go up to 6A? So every year they are going to tweak who goes where for tournament time. Should be set by enrollment only. My opinion 

If they got 2 points they would STAY in 5A. I believe that means if they won a sectional final in both years or a regional final in 1 year they would stay. That's pretty competitive for that leve.

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Posted (edited)

It could be implied that Sectional 28 in 3A is already an unofficial “tweak” to the Success Factor.

Edited by Lysander
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On 5/1/2019 at 7:14 PM, JustRules said:

If they got 2 points they would STAY in 5A. I believe that means if they won a sectional final in both years or a regional final in 1 year they would stay. That's pretty competitive for that leve.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I want to add why is this not applied to 6A school?

I think if a school in 6A wins enough points to move up to 7A, I know it doesn't exist, they should have to sit two years out of the tournament.  After all this about giving other schools a chance. Just my opinion.  Like I said this was put into place to punish good programs. 

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way this runs right now is that they look at distinct 2-year periods for reclassification.  

For example, Southridge won state in 2A in 2017 and won their 2A regional in 2018 and consequently moved up to 3A.

Western Boone lost in the regional in 2017 but won state in 2018.  But if they go on to win their regional in 2019 they do not move up unless they do well in 2020 even though they attained the same results as Southridge over a 2-year period.  The only difference being that Southridge's success fell within that specific 2-year window while Western Boone's would straddle 2 different windows.  

Am I interpreting this correctly? 

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2 minutes ago, XStar said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way this runs right now is that they look at distinct 2-year periods for reclassification.  

For example, Southridge won state in 2A in 2017 and won their 2A regional in 2018 and consequently moved up to 3A.

Western Boone lost in the regional in 2017 but won state in 2018.  But if they go on to win their regional in 2019 they do not move up unless they do well in 2020 even though they attained the same results as Southridge over a 2-year period.  The only difference being that Southridge's success fell within that specific 2-year window while Western Boone's would straddle 2 different windows.  

Am I interpreting this correctly? 

Correct

Stupidest.Logic.Ever

 

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