foxbat Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Why would they? Can you blame Hobart? So what you are saying then is a qualifying system actually CREATED a situation where a game that might have had meaning to both teams no longer had any meaning at all to at least one of the teams who then took away the opportunity for another team that might have needed or just wanted an opportunity to compete? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, tango said: So you're telling me Cathedral's players and coaches would have prepared more, focused more, and played/managed better in that Wk. 2 match-up with Brownsburg if it was some sort of qualifier game? Have you ever actually attended a playoff game? If you cannot tell the difference between playoff football and regular season football, you’re not paying attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, foxbat said: So what you are saying then is a qualifying system actually CREATED a situation where a game that might have had meaning to both teams no longer had any meaning at all to at least one of the teams who then took away the opportunity for another team that might have needed or just wanted an opportunity to compete? It sounds like a scheduling nightmare. Why would you have a regular season football game on a Friday night and then turn around and play on a Tuesday? Why would the team already in the playoffs do such a thing? Doesn't make any sense to me and a scheduling conflict is completely irrelevant to any playoff qualifier I have proposed. 16 minutes ago, tango said: So you're telling me Cathedral's players and coaches would have prepared more, focused more, and played/managed better in that Wk. 2 match-up with Brownsburg if it was some sort of qualifier game? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: It sounds like a scheduling nightmare. Why would you have a regular season football game on a Friday night and then turn around and play on a Tuesday? Why would the team already in the playoffs do such a thing? Doesn't make any sense to me and a scheduling conflict is completely irrelevant to any playoff qualifier I have proposed. Yes You can blame it on scheduling, but you know who didn't have a problem with the scheduling? Both teams at the start of the season. I doubt the schedule was a surprise; just the specific circumstances. But again, regardless of the schedule, the regular season game that was cancelled was IRRELEVANT to Hobart; which doesn't fit the narrative that a qualifier makes the regular-season games more meaningful. Obviously, in this case, there's NOTHING about the qualifying system that made this game meaningful to Hobart. And, like you, I don't blame them ... they played the game that was best suited for them; and I don't mean football. Nonetheless, it now seems that there should be a qualifying statement on the idea that a qualifier increases competition level for Indiana. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Bobref said: Have you ever actually attended a playoff game? If you cannot tell the difference between playoff football and regular season football, you’re not paying attention. Yep, 29 of them in the last 6 years alone. Guess which photo is from a playoff game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippy Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, foxbat said: You can blame it on scheduling, but you know who didn't have a problem with the scheduling? Both teams at the start of the season. I doubt the schedule was a surprise; just the specific circumstances. But again, regardless of the schedule, the regular season game that was cancelled was IRRELEVANT to Hobart; which doesn't fit the narrative that a qualifier makes the regular-season games more meaningful. Obviously, in this case, there's NOTHING about the qualifying system that made this game meaningful to Hobart. And, like you, I don't blame them ... they played the game that was best suited for them; and I don't mean football. Nonetheless, it now seems that there should be a qualifying statement on the idea that a qualifier increases competition level for Indiana. On November 4, 1977 Scottsburg won by forfeit after Paoli had to cancel the game because they qualified for the Playoffs. You only got to play 9 games if your team didn't make the playoffs and the other team you were playing the last week of the season did make the playoffs. By 1981 they took care of that problem. The last game of the season was played on Wednesday. Edited October 21, 2022 by Tippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 20 hours ago, Footballking16 said: I would feel as a player or coach, playing in potentially 4,5,6+ games with "playoff" implications sounds a hell of a lot better than being given an "entitled" playoff game. But that's just me. Players and coaches don't know any better because it's the way it's been for 30 years. I don't fathom a playoff scenario that cuts the field in half would ever exclude a team that goes 10-0. It's purely a money grab. That's not going to be the case for high school sports. When ESPN,Turner Sports, Fox, etc start paying to broadcast Indiana High School football we can talk. Again, I understand and appreciate how YOU feel. Players and coaches don't know any better? That was a joke right? Especially directed toward the coaches......Not sure you can dismiss their input, at least so with credibility. My team wasn't 10-0...but it was a 7-2 team and conference champion....and it didn't qualify. Money grab...perhaps. But the reason why revenue increases is because more people are invested with their teams involved, thus demand for in-person and TV escalates. I can say with certainty that high school revenues for the playoffs have absolutely increased with the all-in vs a portion with the qualifier. More $$ to both schools and the IHSAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said: Again, I understand and appreciate how YOU feel. Players and coaches don't know any better? That was a joke right? Especially directed toward the coaches......Not sure you can dismiss their input, at least so with credibility. Unless you've been coaching Indiana High school football for nearly 30 years, no, you don't have any kind of experience or coaching in the regular season with playoff implications on the line. The all-in has been around for nearly 30 years, players and coaches today don't know any better or any other way because the all-in is all they know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: players and coaches today don't know any better There is no better way 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: Unless you've been coaching Indiana High school football for nearly 30 years, no, you don't have any kind of experience or coaching in the regular season with playoff implications on the line. The all-in has been around for nearly 30 years, players and coaches today don't know any better or any other way because the all-in is all they know. In my opinion, I think you are short-selling Indiana's coaches, at a minimum, and players, at a maximum. Just like there are Indiana coaching families, there are also coaching families that span states. And just like there are Indiana player families, there are also extended player families across states. My son plays here in Indiana, but is quite aware of the Texas system due to relatives. Likewise, there are coaches in the Lafayette area that have siblings coaching high school ball in other states. While they may not have directly coached it or played it, they can certainly comprehend it. Realistically, coaching/playing in an all-in vs. qualifying environment is less about actual football and more about administration/management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, foxbat said: In my opinion, I think you are short-selling Indiana's coaches, at a minimum, and players, at a maximum. Just like there are Indiana coaching families, there are also coaching families that span states. And just like there are Indiana player families, there are also extended player families across states. My son plays here in Indiana, but is quite aware of the Texas system due to relatives. Likewise, there are coaches in the Lafayette area that have siblings coaching high school ball in other states. While they may not have directly coached it or played it, they can certainly comprehend it. Realistically, coaching/playing in an all-in vs. qualifying environment is less about actual football and more about administration/management. I'm not disagreeing with any of that, but if you haven't played/coached in an environment where regular season games have playoff implications than you can't lament one way or the other. Outside of transfers from other states currently playing in the IHSAA, virtually no current player has played in a regular season game with the season and playoff hopes potentially on the line. Same can be said for many of the current coaches and assistants unless they're old enough to have coached/played under the old system or coached in a different state. High School kids are going to line up and play wherever you tell them. I don't question that. But every high school kid in this state knows the stakes are higher in week 10 than weeks 1-9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Tippy said: On November 4, 1977 Scottsburg won by forfeit after Paoli had to cancel the game because they qualified for the Playoffs. You only got to play 9 games if your team didn't make the playoffs and the other team you were playing the last week of the season did make the playoffs. By 1981 they took care of that problem. The last game of the season was played on Wednesday. I disagree, 10 game schedule was standard. Playoffs began after the regular season. As I recall, the season ended on Wednesday due to teachers having Teachers Institute (personal development). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812FB Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 OK I've punched some numbers with the schools (14 total) that are currently 5A or recently 5A that I would imagine Castle and Evansville North will be jockeying with for a playoff qualifier and seeding. I compiled the last three years. The 2020 season has all kinds of issues (Cancellations etc. etc.) with it being that was the season of COVID. I was thinking of possibly throwing that year out but I was halfway through the process and decided to just include it. Some of these calculations might be off due to the rush and I by no means claim that the accuracy of these digits are legit. But I believe this will provide a nice picture of the system that OHSAA uses being applied to schools like Castle and Evansville North. Should a qualifier apply any school ranked 8 or below would be considered the bottom half. Bloomington South for some reason has an 8 game schedule. I didn't take exception to the formula with them. I applied the formula as if they played a 9 game schedule. This means they missed out on points. You'll see how this jeopardizes possible seeding for them below. Schools bolded won a sectional. Schools in italic won the regional. Current Season Breakdown [8-1] Whiteland 24.777 [7-1] Bloomington South 19.611 [7-2] Franklin 19.611 [6-3] Terre Haute South 15.444 [6-3] Seymour 14.444 [5-4] Bedford North Lawrence 11.444 [5-4] Bloomington North 11 [5-4] Evansville North 10.277 [5-4] Castle 9.833 [4-5] Columbus East 9.388 [4-5] Floyd Central 8.611 [2-4] Terre Haute North 3.555 [2-7] New Albany 3.388 [1-7] Jeffersonville 2.5 If all of these schools were in 5A and a qualifier that cuts half the field was implemented, the SIAC might not have representation in the tournament this year. Bloomington North and BNL might also not make the cut because I didn't include other 5A schools considered in the south bracket. This is assuming there would be a 'South' and 'North' bracket of course. 2021 Season [6-2] Bloomington South 16.055 [7-2] Castle 15.555 [6-3] New Albany 14.333 [5-3] Whiteland 13.611 [6-3] Bloomington North 13.5 [4-5] Columbus East 8.722 [5-4] Evansville North 7.944 [4-5] Bedford North Lawrence 7.722 [3-6] Franklin 7.722 [3-5] Jeffersonville 6.611 [3-6] Floyd Central 6.388 [3-5] Seymour 6 [3-6] Terre Haute North 5.388 [1-9] Terre Haute South 0.666 Whiteland beat Columbus East twice, once in the regular season and again in the first round of the sectional. An 8 total game schedule Bloomington South beat Castle in the first of the sectional. 2020 Season [8-1] Whiteland 22.777 [7-2] Columbus East 21.666 [7-2] Floyd Central 15.833 [5-3] Castle 12.833 [6-2] New Albany 10.777 [5-4] Evansville North 10.666 [4-3] Bloomington South 9.833 [4-5] Bloomington North 7.944 [4-5] Terre Haute North 6.388 [3-5] Jeffersonville 5.166 [3-7] Seymour 5.055 [2-7] Terre Haute South 4.722 [3-5] Franklin 3.611 [2-7] Bedford North Lawrence 3.333 This year is a tough one to evaluate in a substantial way due to COVID. Jeffersonville won its Sectional this year. They most likely would have been cut from the field according to the points accumulated. But again, 2020 was an anomaly. Overall, I think it's safe to say the 5A SIAC schools probably wouldn't face any major issues with getting any sort of shaft with this type of system. Getting a 1 seed might be a challenge for them. And I would consider a 5-4 school be on the bubble anyway. But I think they'd be just fine with the current schedule they play. Which is actually a good thing for fans of the SIAC. Tango already mentioned Rivalry Week down here. He's 100% correct about the enthusiasm. The folks on the west side would probably blow a gasket if the West Side Nut Club Championship was no longer a thing because of something like this. They would absolutely lose their poop. It wouldn't be pretty. No seriously. For real. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tippy Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: I disagree, 10 game schedule was standard. Playoffs began after the regular season. As I recall, the season ended on Wednesday due to teachers having Teachers Institute (personal development). Everyone did play a 10 game schedule, but LCC only played 9 games in 1979 because Hobart made the playoffs, and the same with Scottsburg in 1977. You are right about the Teachers Institute, but that did give the teams that made the playoffs more days to get ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2022/10/20/indiana-high-school-football-ips-shortridge-face-uphill-challenge-sectionals-ihsaa-jovan-mccray/65412473007/ Timely article in the IndyStar today by Kyle Neddenriep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, 812FB said: OK I've punched some numbers with the schools (14 total) that are currently 5A or recently 5A that I would imagine Castle and Evansville North will be jockeying with for a playoff qualifier and seeding. I compiled the last three years. The 2020 season has all kinds of issues (Cancellations etc. etc.) with it being that was the season of COVID. I was thinking of possibly throwing that year out but I was halfway through the process and decided to just include it. Some of these calculations might be off due to the rush and I by no means claim that the accuracy of these digits are legit. But I believe this will provide a nice picture of the system that OHSAA uses being applied to schools like Castle and Evansville North. Should a qualifier apply any school ranked 8 or below would be considered the bottom half. Bloomington South for some reason has an 8 game schedule. I didn't take exception to the formula with them. I applied the formula as if they played a 9 game schedule. This means they missed out on points. You'll see how this jeopardizes possible seeding for them below. Schools bolded won a sectional. Schools in italic won the regional. Current Season Breakdown [8-1] Whiteland 24.777 [7-1] Bloomington South 19.611 [7-2] Franklin 19.611 [6-3] Terre Haute South 15.444 [6-3] Seymour 14.444 [5-4] Bedford North Lawrence 11.444 [5-4] Bloomington North 11 [5-4] Evansville North 10.277 [5-4] Castle 9.833 [4-5] Columbus East 9.388 [4-5] Floyd Central 8.611 [2-4] Terre Haute North 3.555 [2-7] New Albany 3.388 [1-7] Jeffersonville 2.5 If all of these schools were in 5A and a qualifier that cuts half the field was implemented, the SIAC might not have representation in the tournament this year. Bloomington North and BNL might also not make the cut because I didn't include other 5A schools considered in the south bracket. This is assuming there would be a 'South' and 'North' bracket of course. 2021 Season [6-2] Bloomington South 16.055 [7-2] Castle 15.555 [6-3] New Albany 14.333 [5-3] Whiteland 13.611 [6-3] Bloomington North 13.5 [4-5] Columbus East 8.722 [5-4] Evansville North 7.944 [4-5] Bedford North Lawrence 7.722 [3-6] Franklin 7.722 [3-5] Jeffersonville 6.611 [3-6] Floyd Central 6.388 [3-5] Seymour 6 [3-6] Terre Haute North 5.388 [1-9] Terre Haute South 0.666 Whiteland beat Columbus East twice, once in the regular season and again in the first round of the sectional. An 8 total game schedule Bloomington South beat Castle in the first of the sectional. 2020 Season [8-1] Whiteland 22.777 [7-2] Columbus East 21.666 [7-2] Floyd Central 15.833 [5-3] Castle 12.833 [6-2] New Albany 10.777 [5-4] Evansville North 10.666 [4-3] Bloomington South 9.833 [4-5] Bloomington North 7.944 [4-5] Terre Haute North 6.388 [3-5] Jeffersonville 5.166 [3-7] Seymour 5.055 [2-7] Terre Haute South 4.722 [3-5] Franklin 3.611 [2-7] Bedford North Lawrence 3.333 This year is a tough one to evaluate in a substantial way due to COVID. Jeffersonville won its Sectional this year. They most likely would have been cut from the field according to the points accumulated. But again, 2020 was an anomaly. Overall, I think it's safe to say the 5A SIAC schools probably wouldn't face any major issues with getting any sort of shaft with this type of system. Getting a 1 seed might be a challenge for them. And I would consider a 5-4 school be on the bubble anyway. But I think they'd be just fine with the current schedule they play. Which is actually a good thing for fans of the SIAC. Tango already mentioned Rivalry Week down here. He's 100% correct about the enthusiasm. The folks on the west side would probably blow a gasket if the West Side Nut Club Championship was no longer a thing because of something like this. They would absolutely lose their poop. It wouldn't be pretty. No seriously. For real. That’s far too long for anyone to read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: I'm not disagreeing with any of that, but if you haven't played/coached in an environment where regular season games have playoff implications than you can't lament one way or the other. Outside of transfers from other states currently playing in the IHSAA, virtually no current player has played in a regular season game with the season and playoff hopes potentially on the line. Same can be said for many of the current coaches and assistants unless they're old enough to have coached/played under the old system or coached in a different state. High School kids are going to line up and play wherever you tell them. I don't question that. But every high school kid in this state knows the stakes are higher in week 10 than weeks 1-9. But, due to Indiana all-in, everyone of them has had the opportunity to play a post-season game where, as you point out, the stakes are the highest. All you need say to most people in that situation is, "Imagine that Week 1 is just like Week 10" and most will grasp it. Coaches and players alike. All throughout the season I can pretty much guarantee you all across the state there are coaches saying, "This game is our LOS" when they play a rival or "This game is our Super Bowl" when playing against great odds or "Leave it all on the field" on any given Friday. I've seen both systems, I've been there in the practices day in and day out in both systems, I've been there to watch the seasons play out in both systems, I come from God's state in terms of football. I should be the easiest sell you have on this topic, but I'm not overly convinced by the general argument. Perhaps some concrete examples of what the specific benefits are for the state, and more importantly the programs, as opposed to the generalities or the "you can't know because you haven't experienced it" approach might help sell it. The realization that I see is that, in Indiana, for the best of the best programs, a qualifier doesn't matter because for them, every seasonal game is like a last game. For the worst of the worst, it wouldn't really matter because for them, they are often just trying to survive week to week, so a qualifier isn't going to make them perform harder. For the above average folks, again, like the best of the best, they are already working to squeeze just about everything they can out of the regular season within the constraints of their schedules/conferences. For the less than average, many of them may have football as a general extracurricular like band or chess club and not necessarily for trophies/titles/etc. For the average folks, with or without the qualifier, they depend on the proverbial "good classes" and perhaps long-term progress to eventually make some waves, even if once or once in a while. Those that move into the above average grouping from average would likely do so regardless of qualifier or not or, conversely, stay average with or without the qualifier. On paper, a qualifier seems to be a motivator, but typically when there's similar reason for responding to it. In high school football, and particularly in Indiana, there isn't. If the argument is that it makes the post season mean something more, then technically, yes it does. A 5-4 team can claim greater bragging rights to making it to post-season over the 4-5 team that's locked out. But then again, I can argue that a pound of sugar is sweeter than a tablespoon of sugar, but one's more impactful in my morning coffee than the other. In a sense, it ends up being a "participation trophy" for the average. If the argument is that the all-in "taints" the post season because it potentially allows a 0-9 team to play a 1-9 team and the 0-9 team makes it to the second round while two 9-0 teams play and only one makes it and the other goes home, then I'm right there with you. That can be fixed though by seeding the tournament. There may be players out there that complain about the post-season, but the complaint that I've heard from coaches and players is tied to the issue that #1 can play #2 in the first round or that #316 and #315 played in the first round not that #316 made it to the post season. On the flip side, all-in with proper seeding provides for more weight to the regular season, less "injustice" to higher-ranked teams, more opportunities for "success" measurements for less-than-high ranked teams, more playing opportunities for players, more flexibility for coaching/schedule, less forced impact on conferences/rivalries, etc. A school like Adams Central doesn't need Knightstown shut out from the post-season to make its claim to being a competitive team. Similarly, West Lafayette doesn't consider its sectional title worthless because Princeton made it into the post-season. Again, from a player/coach perspective how do you convince Adams Central that their run this year is any different with or without Knightstown in the mix. Similarly, how do you convince West Lafayette that their year is any different with or without Princeton in the mix? The answer to selling the qualifier lies in answering those kinds of questions from a program perspective. One benefit that you could sell is that it gives 1A-4A a week off before the post-season. Then again, there are plenty of ways to get that and, to get that week off, would folks select a qualifier or starting the season a week early or getting rid of the scrimmage or making 1A-4A an 8-week season or giving up playing in LOS and playing a week later? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaSalle Lions 1976 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 I see the all in as a big money grab for schools that don't make money from football. You hope you are in a sectional that has teams that travel well, since you get to split the sectional money. It could be a make or break for many schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHJIrish Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 When Cathedral laces 'em up they are there to win, regular season or playoffs. They care about every game. This discussion is never ending!😖 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, PHJIrish said: When Cathedral laces 'em up they are there to win, regular season or playoffs. They care about every game. This discussion is never ending!😖 Not against Brownsburg according to @Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 7 hours ago, Tippy said: Everyone did play a 10 game schedule, but LCC only played 9 games in 1979 because Hobart made the playoffs, and the same with Scottsburg in 1977. You are right about the Teachers Institute, but that did give the teams that made the playoffs more days to get ready. Seems odd to me. This was during the time I was in HS. We played our last game on Wednesday and the playoffs began the next week. Several teams around here were making the playoffs, not saying it didn’t happen, but I sure don’t remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, tango said: Not against Brownsburg according to @Footballking16 Lol. I said Cathedral wasn’t there to beat Brownsburg or didn’t care!?!? Talk about setting up strawman of all strawman. Edited October 22, 2022 by Footballking16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 15 hours ago, Footballking16 said: Unless you've been coaching Indiana High school football for nearly 30 years, no, you don't have any kind of experience or coaching in the regular season with playoff implications on the line. The all-in has been around for nearly 30 years, players and coaches today don't know any better or any other way because the all-in is all they know. So no coaches on any staff in this state have any experience coaching in another state?? I know that isn’t the case for the head coaches at Brownsburg and CG. Guessing they aren’t alone. Bet many coaches have a better perspective on this issue than what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 3:17 PM, Footballking16 said: End of week 8 up until kickoff of the opening round of sectionals always brings up the qualifier debate, one I'm deeply passionate about. One of the biggest talking points for keeping the all-in is this roundabout myth that bottom half Sagarin teams flourish in the state tournament. Short answer is....they don't. If sectionals were seeded accordingly it would only further my point that a qualifier that cuts the field in half at the conclusion of the regular season is more than an appropriate measure for the IHSAA to put out a more competitive and exciting product come tournament time. I have decided to once again track every postseason outcome (especially games that feature a top half Sagarin rated team vs a bottom half Sagarin rated team), and if history repeats itself, will only further the narrative for a new postseason format. 6A Sectional 1 Crown Point (7) vs Portage (28) Lake Central (23) vs Lafayette Jefferson (16) Sectional 2 FW Carroll (9) vs Penn (14) Elkhart (21) vs Warsaw (17) Sectional 3 Fishers (8) vs FW Northrop (29) Homestead (22) vs HSE (4) Sectional 4 Westfield (10) vs Carmel (5) Zionsville (20) vs Noblesville (18) Sectional 5 Brownsburg (2) vs Ben Davis (6) Avon (19) vs Pike (24) Sectional 6 Lawrence North (13) vs Cathedral (1) North Central (27) vs Lawrence Central (12) Sectional 7 Tech (30) vs Perry Meridian (25) Warren Central (11) vs Southport (31) Sectional 8 Center Grove (3) vs Franklin Central (15) Columbus North (26) vs Jeffersonville (32) 5A SECTIONAL 9 Munster (30) at Merrillville (5) Hammond Central (25) at Hammond Morton (32) SECTIONAL 10 Valparaiso (9) at LaPorte (23) Chesterton (7) at Michigan City (19) SECTIONAL 11 Concord (15) at Goshen (28) South Bend Adams (26) at Mishawaka (8) SECTIONAL 12 Anderson (27) at Fort Wayne North (6) Fort Wayne Snider (1) at Fort Wayne Dwenger (16) SECTIONAL 13 McCutcheon (21) at Decatur Central (11) Plainfield (13) at Harrison (West Lafayette) (10) SECTIONAL 14 [BRACKET] Franklin (4) at Terre Haute South (12) Terre Haute North (24) at Whiteland (2) SECTIONAL 15 [BRACKET] Seymour (22) at Bloomington North (18) Bloomington South (3) at Columbus East (20) SECTIONAL 16 Floyd Central (29) at Evansville North (17) Castle (14) at New Albany (31) 4A SECTIONAL 17 Lowell (26) at Culver Academy (42) Kankakee Valley (43) at New Prairie (10) Gary West (28) at Hobart (16) Highland (45) at East Chicago Central (62) SECTIONAL 18 Wawasee (46) at Logansport (25) Northridge (18) at South Bend Riley (41) NorthWood (5) at South Bend Washington (56) South Bend St. Joseph (38) at Plymouth (53) SECTIONAL 19 East Noble (30) at Angola (23) Fort Wayne South (50) at Leo (17) New Haven (29) at DeKalb (39) Columbia City (6) at Fort Wayne Wayne (32) SECTIONAL 20 Mississinewa (27) at Marion (54) Huntington North (44) at Muncie Central (36) Kokomo (11) at Frankfort (61) Western (24) at Jay County (52) SECTIONAL 21 Brebeuf Jesuit (4) at Northview (21) Lebanon (20) at Mooresville (8) Indianapolis Roncalli (2) at Indianapolis Shortridge (59) Indianapolis Washington (63) at Indianapolis Attucks (58) SECTIONAL 22 Richmond (57) at Connersville (37) Beech Grove (31) at New Castle (40) New Palestine (1) at Mount Vernon (Fortville) (9) Pendleton Heights (19) at Greenfield-Central (12) SECTIONAL 23 Bedford North Lawrence (35) at Shelbyville (49) Martinsville (13) at Greenwood (33) Silver Creek (51) at Jennings County (48) Edgewood (60) at East Central (3) SECTIONAL 24 Evansville Memorial (14) at Evansville Bosse (47) Boonville (22) at Evansville Harrison (34) Evansville Central (55) at Evansville Reitz (7) Jasper (15) at Winner Game 1 3A SECTIONAL 25 Twin Lakes (60) at West Lafayette (2) Boone Grove (50) at Calumet (31) Griffith (46) at River Forest (48) Hanover Central (6) at Rensselaer Central (34) SECTIONAL 26 Mishawaka Marian (42) at West Noble (23) Lakeland (44) at Knox (16) South Bend Clay (64) at Jimtown (24) Fairfield (39) at John Glenn (37) SECTIONAL 27 Norwell (1) at Heritage (27) Fort Wayne Concordia (32) at Woodlan (38) Yorktown (14) at Delta (28) Bellmont (59) at Garrett (36) SECTIONAL 28 Indianapolis Chatard (3) at Northwestern (53) Hamilton Heights (13) at Maconaquah (47) Guerin Catholic (9) at Oak Hill (10) Tippecanoe Valley (18) at Peru (56) SECTIONAL 29 Western Boone (5) at Crawfordsville (54) Tri-West (8) at Danville (25) Monrovia (45) at Purdue Polytechnic (63) Speedway (19) at North Montgomery (21) SECTIONAL 30 Vincennes Lincoln (17) at Gibson Southern (7) Owen Valley (12) at Mount Vernon (Posey) (26) Princeton (62) at West Vigo (57) Washington (61) at Pike Central (58) SECTIONAL 31 Lawrenceburg (4) at South Dearborn (22) Greensburg (43) at Rushville (52) Indian Creek (30) at Franklin County (41) Batesville (40) at Centerville (33) SECTIONAL 32 Scottsburg (49) at Corydon Central (51) North Harrison (29) at Southridge (11) Madison (35) at Heritage Hills (15) Charlestown (19) at Salem (55) 2A SECTIONAL 33 Whiting (41) at LaVille (3) Wheeler (45) at Bremen (30) Hammond Noll (61) at Lake Station (57) Andrean (7) at Winner Game 1 SECTIONAL 34 Winamac (43) at Lafayette Central Catholic (10) Rochester (11) at Seeger (24) Benton Central (48) at Delphi (40) Lewis Cass (13) at Winner Game 1 SECTIONAL 35 Prairie Heights (51) at Fort Wayne Luers (8) Churubusco (9) at Central Noble (39) Eastside (5) at Wabash (47) Manchester (46) at Whitko (60) SECTIONAL 36 Eastbrook (19) at Frankton (33) Elwood (59) at Alexandria (37) Bluffton (23) at Blackford (54) Tipton (27) at Eastern (Greentown) (22) SECTIONAL 37 Linton-Stockton (2) at South Vermillion (25) North Knox (31) at Southmont (16) Sullivan (12) at North Putnam (32) Greencastle (36) at Cascade (15) SECTIONAL 38 Indianapolis Ritter (44) at Shenandoah (21) Heritage Christian (14) at Northeastern (20) Winchester (52) at Lapel (26) Eastern Hancock (35) at Union County (50) SECTIONAL 39 Triton Central (1) at Christel House Manual (56) Brownstown Central (28) at Brown County (58) Switzerland County (55) at Indianapolis Scecina (4) Clarksville (38) at Eastern (Pekin) (49) SECTIONAL 40 Forest Park (42) at North Posey (17) Mitchell (53) at Paoli (29) Tell City (34) at Crawford County (62) Perry Central (18) at Evansville Mater Dei (6) 1A SECTIONAL 41 Bowman Academy (49) at South Central (Union Mills) (55) North Newton (54) at Culver (27) Triton (10) at Pioneer (29) North Judson (3) at South Newton (33) SECTIONAL 42 Clinton Central (56) at Traders Point Christian (24) North Vermillion (23) at Covington (42) Park Tudor (14) at Clinton Prairie (32) Fountain Central (30) at Attica (59) SECTIONAL 43 Frontier (43) at Taylor (51) West Central (21) at Caston (45) Tri-County (53) at Tri-Central (34) Carroll (Flora) (15) at North White (37) SECTIONAL 44 Fremont (39) at South Adams (16) Adams Central (2) at Southwood (12) North Miami (31) at Madison-Grant (13) Northfield (18) at Southern Wells (46) SECTIONAL 45 Union City (57) at Sheridan (8) Indiana Deaf (38) at Indianapolis Tindley (44) Wes-Del (47) at Hagerstown (36) Monroe Central (28) at Winner Game 1 SECTIONAL 46 Knightstown (58) at Edinburgh (40) South Decatur (48) at Milan (26) North Decatur (4) at Tri (11) Cambridge City Lincoln (60) at Winner Game 1 SECTIONAL 47 South Putnam (6) at Indianapolis Lutheran (1) Riverton Parke (19) at North Central (Farmersburg) (41) Covenant Christian (7) at Parke Heritage (50) Cloverdale (52) at Winner Game 1 SECTIONAL 48 South Spencer (20) at Tecumseh (5) Springs Valley (17) at Providence (9) West Washington (25) at Eastern Greene (35) North Daviess (22) at Winner Game 1 Early indications are that top half Sagarin rated teams went 58-2 against bottom half Sagarin rated teams last night in class 1A-4A. Typical, but not at all surprising. Dekalb #39 over #29 New Haven and #40 New Castle over #31 Beech Grove both out of 4A were the two “upset” winners. Will be back later with final score analysis to show just how lopsided last nights affairs were. Cut the field in half people, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) Another keen observation; after 5A and 6A complete their first round matchups next week, there will have been more top 10 teams eliminated by virtue of drawing other top 10 teams (5) in the first round than upsets of bottom half Sagarin rated teams over top half Sagarin rated teams. Think about that? A total injustice to the regular season. Make it make sense. Edited October 22, 2022 by Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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